Armory Sponsor
Posted: 12/27/2010 3:51:44 PM EDT
|
Alright,
I know this is going to cause a lot of facepalms across the country, but I searched through every thread I could find and found nothing definitive on this. My question: Is it legal to change the Mag tube on a Benelli M4 to a full length mag tube made in the U.S without changing anything else? Example of Tube in question: http://www.shop.carriercomp.com/product.sc?productId=3&categoryId=4 I have not been able to find a clear and distinct answer to this and I am curious if the hive here has any more information to share... Quoted from another forum as it deals with the 922(r) law. Where is all of this coming from I looked up 18 USC 922(r) and it does not have the language from this 178.39 section you are citing, the best I can tell is it is from the CFR, (this is agency rules-which do have force of law) 922(r) is in the Federal Code. I did a search online of the CFR and could not find that citation and looked in the bound versions of the CFR at the local law library and none of them have a 27 cfr 178 Here is what 922(r) currently says as of the sunset of Assault Weapons ban and as of me looking it up on Westlaw this morning- 18 U.S.C. 922 (r) (which is still good law and in effect) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to––blah blah blah so we look at 925 (d)(3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; or that then leads us to 5845(a) of the IRC (internal revenue code): (a) firearm:The term “firearm” means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon. The gist of all of this is you can not manufacture a short barralled shotgun under 18inch barrel or under 26 inches total. There is absolutely zip zero in 922(r) contrary to what everyone is posting on the forums about not being able to put a full length tube on it. If someone could guide me to the whole 10 part thing and where it actually appears in the United States code or in the CFR I would love to look it up. But as of what I have seen so far I don't see where that is in either of those two spots- meaning it is no in force. Reply With Quote This is the actual report that a lot of the 922(r) stuff sprouted from: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/treas/treas-study-on-sporting-suitability-of-modified-semiautomatic-assault-rifles.pdf There are some reports that actually state that the 10 part rule of thumb is not part of the passed and signed law, but is only part of what was suggested and not adopted. Thanks in advance guys!!! |
|
BLUF you are not going to get more than 3 to agree on any one stance.
One group will say it is against the law and you will go to jail post haste if you do. Another group will say while in the gray area you will be fine unless you do something that attracts the attention of the ATF and they add a 922 charge as "filler" to more serious charges. Yet another group will advise you can add parts and you will be legal. The one thing in common is that nobody can list one person that has ever been solely charged with a 922 violation such as this. |
|
Here is a link to a good explanation from FFT:
Benelli M4 922(r) FAQ |
|
US Replacement Parts - My Favorite Upgrades
1. Full length Magazine Tube - US Made Take your pick on materials and sources. A lot out there. 2. Follower - Brownells http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=44592/sku/Benelli_Follower__Alum__Red__12_3__Ga_ 3. Mesa Tachtical Urbino Stock - Shorter than original by about 2" (Huge eronomic improvement) Good fit and Finish with options to choose from. http://www.mesatactical.com/ |
|
Quoted:
Besides making the shotgun more 922r compliant, is there an advantage to replacing the follower in my Benelli M4? Not really. Unless you purposely want a different color. The best option going is carriercomp is giving a US made follower away with all his titanium magazine tubes now. So right there you're two parts down. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Besides making the shotgun more 922r compliant, is there an advantage to replacing the follower in my Benelli M4? Not really. Unless you purposely want a different color. The best option going is carriercomp is giving a US made follower away with all his titanium magazine tubes now. So right there you're two parts down. Nice deal. The follower is likely to be the least expensive part you can swap for 922r |
| I'm curious about this 922r complaince myself. As far as I understand it an imported firearm can contain no more than 10 imported pieces on it so it would seem to me that as long as whatever it is your are changing or adding to your firearm, as long as it's made in the U.S.A. your good to go. |
|
Quoted:
I'm curious about this 922r complaince myself. As far as I understand it an imported firearm can contain no more than 10 imported pieces on it so it would seem to me that as long as whatever it is your are changing or adding to your firearm, as long as it's made in the U.S.A. your good to go. As long as it is a part counted by the ATF (example: the mag follower and mag tube count, but the mag spring does not) and it is clearly marked "Made in USA", then Yes. My 2 cents: It is advised that you contact the ATF and get a letter listing out which parts are counted, then replace only what is on that list. In my opinion this does 2 things, it gives you an actual list of parts on ATF letterhead and shows that you were making a good faith effort to comply with the law. If some authority does decide to harass you for your modifications you can simply show them what you were told and that you were following their instructions. It's a much stronger argument than, "Some guy on a forum told me". |
|
This is how 922 compliance for the benelli was explained to me, and I will be going to the range to night where there is a gunsmith who has been in the business for many decades and i'll ask him for his .02 cents on it but here is how I understand it.
The M2 is commercially for sale in the US, correct ? If so you are fine to use any mag extension (need not be US made). Long version - because the M2 is an importable gun, parts count / country of origin doesn't matter. US parts count only comes into it when builiding (not posessing!) a gun that would otherwise be unimportable. Building an AK parts kit, for example, would require parts count compliance. Building a K98 mauser however wouldn't - since the gun itself is importable. Again it's up to the individual to check with legality just thought I would throw this out there. |
|
Quoted:
This is how 922 compliance for the benelli was explained to me, and I will be going to the range to night where there is a gunsmith who has been in the business for many decades and i'll ask him for his .02 cents on it but here is how I understand it. The M2 is commercially for sale in the US, correct ? If so you are fine to use any mag extension (need not be US made). Long version - because the M2 is an importable gun, parts count / country of origin doesn't matter. US parts count only comes into it when builiding (not posessing!) a gun that would otherwise be unimportable. Building an AK parts kit, for example, would require parts count compliance. Building a K98 mauser however wouldn't - since the gun itself is importable. Again it's up to the individual to check with legality just thought I would throw this out there. From my understanding, an important distinction in 922R is that the weapon is in an "assault" format. A mauser is a "sport" rifle and therefore 922R does not apply. An AK is in an assault format and 922R does apply. Saiga 12 come into the US as a "sport" shotgun until you convert it for pistol grip use and then it becomes "assault" and 922R applies. The Benelli is commercially available in the US as a "sport" shotgun until you start increasing the round count and pistol grip making it an "assault" shotgun. Then at that point you are building it into an assault shotgun. |
|
Quoted:
Then how is it that I can buy an FN SLP tactical shot gun with a pistol grip that has a capacity of 6 +1 Last time I checked the newer FN SLP was made in the US. Therefore, they are not restricted by 922r. The older ones were originally imported in to the US. edit for punctuation. |
fns are made in north carolina i think, at least some where down there. every time ? like these cme up i cant help but think how fn stupid our gov is. i mean how does where its made have anything to do with anything??????/// it takes a lot of effort to be that dumb. sry rant over.
|
|
Quoted: fns are made in north carolina i think, at least some where down there. every time ? like these cme up i cant help but think how fn stupid our gov is. i mean how does where its made have anything to do with anything??????/// it takes a lot of effort to be that dumb. sry rant over.Are they stamped Mclean, VA or Columbia SC. If I recall correctly Mclean is where they import FN firearms. On a side note, since the FN SCAR is imported what do they do to make it compliant. I assume that FN uses US made LPKs for them along with several other parts. |
|
So I am thinking of the following list:
Carrier Comp TI tube Carrier Comp Follower FFT Forearm (depending on price and number of parts spec'd in letter from ATF) Carrier Comp Hammer Carrier Comp Sear Thanks for the info guys. Cool thing is, I think a lot of good information came to light in this thread. |
Armory Sponsor