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Posted: 12/12/2009 11:15:36 PM EDT
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Ok, so I own a Winchester SX2 MKII for HD (among other choices/AR15/Glock 22). She's VERY NICE, and the last place I'd want to be is at the business end during any difference of opinions. :)
Knowing access to said resource can be limited within the 4 walls of a home in HD situation, I've been thinking about adding a forward/front of the house "Mossberg J.I.C." type option. Specifically a shorty/hall sweeper/class 3. (yes, all NFA ruling applied) While I have no issues with pump action shotguns, I'm inherently lazy (see above SX2 shotty). I know I can pick up any (you name it) flavor of a Remy 870/Mossy 500 pump, but semi-auto in the situation would be preferred. Is there a semi-auto out there other than a Saiga that can be converted to a pistol grip? |
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What you are looking for is going to be tough to find...All the reputable, reliable semi auto scatter guns (save the Saiga) I can think of have a long action spring and tube sticking out the back of the receiver and contained inside the stock.
Actually I cannot think of any unreputable, unreliable semi autos that do not have that action spring sticking out of the back of the receiver. |
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SPAS 12 is about it I think. Some company used to do some sort of conversion to remingtons to add a folding stock, but I know no details.
I would like to know about some of the older, no longer popular models, there mighta been one. The oddball stuff from the 50's to the 70's. I'd think off-shoulder cycling would be an issue too. unless you over-gassed or under-sprung them, but then you'd beat them to death. I also kinda wondered about carving up a grip similar to the SpeedFeed Pistol Grip to fit over a recoil tube. Now ya got me thinkin dammit. |
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Benelli M3
Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12 Mossberg 9200A1 (Jungle Gun) - and regular 9200 Saiga-12 (not in your consideration, but included for completeness, plus no loss of magazine capacity with shorter barrel) Not semi-auto, but not pump: StreetSweeper/Striker 12 (as long as 12 is enough  - reloads are painfully slow)
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Having a semiauto run like that will be tough at best. Sage International stopped their civilian conversions, Street Sweepers are DDs, and most every other semi on the market has a recoil spring in the stock.
To do what you really want, I think about your only option is a Saiga-12 with a little wood plug in the buttstock area to cut down on length and be modded to run with an 8" barrel. It will probably cost right about what a Streetsweeper would run (and be SBS - not DD), but has a muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch larger selection of stick mags, drums, and readily available spare parts. |
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From what I've read about the Mossy Jungle Guns (9200/9200A1), you either get a keeper or a lemon upon purchase. No real way to know (unless the seller is a trusted/reliable source).
I'd forgotten about the Benelli M3. It was actually a gun I was looking at when 1st shopping for a HD shotgun. I kept an eye open for one when going to the local gun shows, but never found one. Lot's of Super 90 M1's, and of course the M4. I was actually looking at the Mossberg 930 SPX, when I stumbled onto a deal for the SX2 MKII. ($515 shipped new) How does the M3's cycling differ? I never really read up on the complete mechanics of how it does offer both pump, and semi-auto actions. Back to the topic, Saiga's appear to be the closest to fulfilling the requirements, it's just the magazine(s) sure do make it look unwieldy in a CQB situation. Ex. Tromix Saiga-12 Class 3 FS on Gunbroker. (not linking) |
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Quoted:
Having a semiauto run like that will be tough at best. Sage International stopped their civilian conversions, Street Sweepers are DDs, and most every other semi on the market has a recoil spring in the stock. To do what you really want, I think about your only option is a Saiga-12 with a little wood plug in the buttstock area to cut down on length and be modded to run with an 8" barrel. It will probably cost right about what a Streetsweeper would run (and be SBS - not DD), but has a muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch larger selection of stick mags, drums, and readily available spare parts. Dang it..... Seems Sage is what I really have in mind. 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=198418&page=7 So, if they've stopped their conversions, does anyone know if there's another modifier out there that can do the same work? Or, how the conversion is MFG'ed? From the external appearance it doesn't appear there's a need for extensive mods to get a Remmy 1100 in shape. 
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Primary difference related to this topic for M3 versus M1 operating is the recoil spring is forward of the receiver on the M3 versus behind the receiver (and in the buttstock) in the M1 (and most other semiauto shotguns). This is what allows it to easily take a pistol grip or folding stock (same as other shotguns listed in my previous post) and what requires extensive mods to an 1100 to allow it to accept a pistol grip or folding stock (to answer your other implied questions concerning mods for an 1100). So even if you find someone to modify an 1100, it's typically relatively expensive, and they're making something completely different and unproven (Sage did great work, but I've heard *unsubstantiated rumor here * issues of durability). I've no direct experience with them as they're relatively scarce, so someone with direct knowledge please feel free to correct me.
As to how an M3 works - can send you the owner's manual electronically for it as I've got it somewhere - haven't played with it much recently to recall clearly, but basically I'd think it turns the inertial recoil off/on by locking the carrier in place or not. Fore end slides back and locks in place on the carrier to turn into a pump by disabling the automatic cycling while simultaneously unlocking the forearm from the mag tube. A couple neat byproducts of the design are a spring assisted closing of the pump action, and a lock open on empty so you never hear the click when you should have reloaded ... throw a shell in through the ejection port, push the bolt release to close the bolt (back to spring-assisted pump) and you're back in action. 9200 - will agree with you on hit-or-miss. But Mossberg still services them. Sent mine back last year as was having issues with extraction on light shells - they polished my chamber and upgraded my trigger group to the metal one for free because i asked them to upgrade it (and offered to pay for it). Could have done the polishing myself, but a friend was already sending his A1 back (see a trend here  ) and so I got free shipping even from my end out of the deal. Down side takes two hands to load - you must depress the bolt release button on the side of the receiver to allow the shell lifter to rotate to access the magazine tube.
As to the Saigas - there is a wide selection of magazines to give you flexibility. The factory 5-rounder is relatively short and gives you at least as much capacity as most SBSs/AOWs. A 14" Mossberg has 5-round mag, 14" Remington has 4-round mag, and capacity drops down with barrel length. My Saigas kick lighter and cycle quicker than any of the other shotguns - took a while to warm up to them, but they certainly rock. Another option if you're looking really compact is to get a SxS or O/U - not a semiauto as you stated, but definitely reliable and not much capacity drop if you're going short SBS/AOW and sticking to a tubular mag design. |
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I think you may have cycling issues with a semiauto pistol grip shotgun. A pistol grip shotgun will move around a whole bunch more than a rifle stocked gun. Don't know because I never tried, but you'd want to make sure the damn thing is reliable.
Alternatively, I have 2 shotguns for HD. Both Remington 870 Police Magnums with 14' barrels, one as an SBS and the other is an AOW. Both factory guns. Remington LE doesn't usually sell to civilians, but when they have overstock they will. |
I've thought about buying one just to try it with a spare PG off of my 1300 and cut the barrel to 18.5"
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