Posted: 7/5/2010 10:30:48 AM EDT
| Ok, Flame all you want if this has been asked a million times, but after weeks of reading i still have the same question. Never owned a 1911, been through many pistols and ARs, but something has me wanting to jump into the 1911 side of things. I realize it would probably be cheaper to go ahead and buy a custom gun, but I want to build one. Easier for me to buy a part here and there than to buy the whole gun. The g/f doesnt mind a bunch of small purchases but seems outraged when i mention spending $2k on a pistol. So the main question i have, seeing how i have no experience in the 1911 world, is it better to buy a frame and build up from there, or go ahead and buy a cheaper pistol like the springfield GI, shoot it and build up from there. Thanks. |
| I would start with something like a Springfield Loaded and shoot it and see how you like it first and learn to take it apart and see how it works. Then if you are wanting to change out some parts for upgrades go ahead and learn. But i would keep the factory slide, frame, and barrel since they are already fitted together. For 1911's you need to know some actual gunsmithing since most parts require fitting, unlike building an AR-15 that just snaps together like legos. |
| Buy a 1911 you can afford and work your way into what you have in mind. 1911s are anything but plug and play. This way you'd get the enjoyment of a 1911 from the start and begin to form opinions of what you really need or expect from your 1911. Until you own one you really have no idea of how you'd want to customize one. |
| I have bought several used Kimbers. I do this mostly to stay away from that silly firing pin safety. Most guns don't get shot very much. Some of them looked like they weren't shot at all. This is a good place to start. You can buy the tools from Brownells as you need them. Kuhnhausen's book is worth it's weight in gold. With your experience as a machinist, you may even be able to make your own tools. Most are fairly simple. You're going to have fun with this project. There is something about 1911's that is extraordinary. |
|
Quoted:
I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but fitting/piecing a 1911 together is much more involved than assembling an AR. I just built my first AR...piece of cake. 1911's different story. You need a lot of tools and a lot of skills, and a milling machine would be helpful. There is almost no such thing as drop in on a 1911. The only thing I am comfortable with doing myself is changing grips and mainspring housings. I can take the whole thing apart and put it back together, but fitting new parts is a whole different animal. Save up and buy a nice one configured how you like it. There are some great semi custom gun makers. ETA didn't see you are a machinist/mechanically inclined. Still might take a few goes on some of the parts to get everything right. Especially the trigger group parts. |
|
Having bought guns and not changed a thing and building a Regent and SA Mil-spec up from parts I wanted I'd say you can't go wrong either way. I myself fit and installed every part on the 2 I built and I changed out everything on the Mil-Spec and all of my 1911s have been 100% reliable .
I would say to start off either with a GI/Mil-Spec from Springfield to build up from or buy a mated slide/frame/barrel/bushing (barrel/bushing optional) combo and go from there. Read up on how everything needs to work and fit. You say your mechanically inclined but its not just about relieving one part so another part will fit. If you buy straight up get something like a Springfield Loaded and see if you would want to change anything. I do have to say that if you build one from scratch it will be unique and that's one of the nice things of building your own 1911. You make it so it runs 100% and its a gun to be proud of since you made it work that way and you will start looking at other pistols like Lego blocks which are just plug and play.....they work but its all prefabricated parts that require no fitting that anyone can slap together. |
| That's the main thing, AR's are almost always drop in and go, i want something that gives me a little more feel of accompishment, not that i don't have enough projects now, but i really want a good target pistol when i am finished, i am already expecting to have more money in this pistol than i could just go buy one for, but that's ok, and this is gonna be a long project, not something that i am expecting to order a bunch of parts and be ready to shoot in a few days, i'm in no hurry. Just wanna make sure that whatever frame i start with is going to last, or whatever pistol that i start with is going to have a frame that will last, i don't care whether it is a SA or a Rock Island, as long as the frame isn't gonna be worn out after 2000 rounds. |
|
Quoted:
machinist not equal gunsmith. It can be done. Brownells has a lot of info you can read for free. After reading if you think you can do it, Brownells is the place to get your gear from. Ok, machinist, and grew up helping my granddad make everything from .270 rifles from scratch to a 12guage revolver when I was around 15, got rid of it because he was afraid I would hurt myself, been trying to track that thing down ever since he passed away. And once again, thanks guys for answering these questions that I know have probably been asked a million times. Just figured I would ask the people who know instead of asking people who read an article on the Internet and thing they know everything about everything. I trust the opinions and help I get on here. |
|
Quoted:
machinist not equal gunsmith. It can be done. Brownells has a lot of info you can read for free. After reading if you think you can do it, Brownells is the place to get your gear from. http://www.fusionfirearms.com/ is another place. Just looked at those kits from fusionfirearms, after seeing some of their kits, would i be better of starting with something like this over a SA GI. If so, which kit would you suggest. Love the chain link stippling on the grips, but want function over looks. |
|
Fusionfirearms makes excellent parts. I've used a few of their internals and think they are great quality parts. You can't go wrong with one of their frame/slide combos. If you want to make life a tad easier then get a set with a barrel/bushing comb also like I mentioned earlier but its not absolutely necessary.
Which kit to get is up to you. If its just going to be a target/range gun than I would get a government size (5") kit/gun. After that its up to you what options you want like front serrations, rail, material, sight cuts and so forth. I will say to get something with dovetail cuts in the slide as it will make sight selection alot easier and less hassle to install. |
| Thanks guys for the good info and places to look, i still have some more reading to catch up on, but i'll probably end up ordering one of the kits, got a birthday coming up next month, either gonna be the start of a 1911, or a couple lowers to finish some AR projects up first. Hopefully the fusion kit, depends on the g/f. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks guys for the good info and places to look, i still have some more reading to catch up on, but i'll probably end up ordering one of the kits, got a birthday coming up next month, either gonna be the start of a 1911, or a couple lowers to finish some AR projects up first. Hopefully the fusion kit, depends on the g/f. Glad I don't need to get permission anymore. 
Seriously though, good luck and don't rush things and use the right tools. Stare at schematics of 1911 internals and read up on whatever you can. There are lots of tools for DIY 1911 builders at Brownells. Just type in 1911 tool or something similar and you'll get a good selection. Type in 1911 " " (fill in " " with what part you are looking for) and you'll get a great selection there. Remember there are some slight differences to certain parts like 80 series and 70 series, 45acp firing pin and a Springfield Armory 45acp firing pin which is actually a .75 9mm/38super firing pin. Things like that you should read up on before buying parts. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys for the good info and places to look, i still have some more reading to catch up on, but i'll probably end up ordering one of the kits, got a birthday coming up next month, either gonna be the start of a 1911, or a couple lowers to finish some AR projects up first. Hopefully the fusion kit, depends on the g/f. Glad I don't need to get permission anymore.
Seriously though, good luck and don't rush things and use the right tools. Stare at schematics of 1911 internals and read up on whatever you can. There are lots of tools for DIY 1911 builders at Brownells. Just type in 1911 tool or something similar and you'll get a good selection. Type in 1911 " " (fill in " " with what part you are looking for) and you'll get a great selection there. Remember there are some slight differences to certain parts like 80 series and 70 series, 45acp firing pin and a Springfield Armory 45acp firing pin which is actually a .75 9mm/38super firing pin. Things like that you should read up on before buying parts. Well, I just got her a SA XD40 subcompact for her birthday last friday, but i gave her a few choices on what to get me, she's dead set on suprising me, so i had to give her a list of choices. I'll deff. keep reading before i order. Is there any reason whatsoever not to start out with a Springfield GI, and add new slide/barrel/everything later, only reason I am asking is because i've found one for cheap, but if the steel is cheaper then i don't mind waiting. |
|
Many people start out with a GI or Mil-Spec for a custom build. Nothing wrong with that at all. Not sure why you want to change the slide on it though but thats up to you. I would almost say to go that road first and at least you have a working 1911 in your face you can take down and study before attempting the fitting process yourself. You can see what wears, how exactly the mechanics work and so forth.
ETA: Both the GI and Mil-Spec models will come with a post front sight and GI cut rear. You'll be limited to GI style post/dovetail unless you mill out the front and square off the back depending on what style you want like Novak, Heinie, etc... |
|
Where do I start? Okay, even though I'm not an expert.....
1. Fitting a barrel to a slide takes more than a machinist, it takes a gunsmith, and a very good one if you want decent accuracy. In other words, if you don't by a kit or otherwise have this done already, you'll have to spend the money to get it done right. Then they have to be fitted to the frame. Jim Clark used to sell awesome kits, don't know if he still does. I think even his kits require gunsmith fitting. 2. Fitting a beavertail grip safety to a standard frame takes a jig and a lot of fine work. Since you're a machinist, I have confidence you can do it, but you'll have to buy the fixture to do a nice job, and you can still biff it if you're not careful. 3. Unless you really know triggers on the 1911 and how to adjust overtravel, and work the hammer and sear, you'll have to go to a gunsmith again. If you don't set the overtravel right, you'll mess up your trigger work (for instance, the trigger has to have enough travel so that both the full-cock notch and the half-cock notch clear the sear when the hammer falls). 4. You can do checkering yourself if you want, and you may even get it as nice as you want it, but you'll have to buy the proper files to do it. Unless you can do it on a machine, which I would recommend if you have that option. I've checkered one gun, did a decent job, and never want to do another one. 5. Don't expect to save much money buying all the parts separately, a full gun will probably be cheaper, especially a Taurus. 6. Make sure you really shop for the frame and slide you're happy with, meaning your preference of cocking grooves, checkering, sight cuts, picatinny rail, etc. Note that the old Bomar sight used on most target guns (and still used by many people, like the target Kimbers) requires machining beyond the standard 1911 sight notch. 7. As someone said, it's not like an AR-15 where everything is drop-in. With that said, I'd recommend buying a gun with all the bells and whistles you want. At least when it comes to checkering, grip safety, sight notches. If you get a gun with most of what you want, you can add more. Here are some of the things I think you might want, in order of easiest to change to hardest. 1. Grips 2. Sights 3. Trigger job 4. Checkering (or other types of grip surfaces), cocking grooves on slide 5. Grip safety or magazine well 6. Barrel (having a match barrel put in) 7. Finish I still say save up for a nice Kimber, Springfield, S&W or even a Taurus (I have all of these, so I'm partial, there are other good ones out there), then start saving for a Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown or another custom if you think you'll enjoy it. |
| Ok, got less than a month to make up my mind, Trying to stay $600 or under for the base pistol, decided i want to buy something new, and get used to the pistol before i go buying a bunch of parts and a kit. Which pistol should I start with, Springfield Millspec, RIA Tactical, or ????. Tell me which pistol to buy. |
|
Quoted:
Ok, got less than a month to make up my mind, Trying to stay $600 or under for the base pistol, decided i want to buy something new, and get used to the pistol before i go buying a bunch of parts and a kit. Which pistol should I start with, Springfield Millspec, RIA Tactical, or ????. Tell me which pistol to buy. Find a used Colt and use it as your base gun 
|
|
For the slight difference in cost, I think the Mil Spec is a better buy for a base. Mainly better sights, lowered ejection port, and a beveled magwell just to name a few. Out of the box they both shoot OK. Only mod I've done to my Mil Spec was to fix the crappy trigger pull (common on the GI & Mil Spec). C&S 4.5lb matched drop in trigger pull set fixed that. (Sweet) If you plan on upgrading the sights, adding a beavertail, tweaking the trigger, you might as well get a RIA or add some bucks to your budget and get a SA Loaded. If you do all those mods to a GI or Mil Spec and decide to sell it, you are going to take a hit.
Good luck |
|
I'd suggest starting with a cheap basic model that is already reliable. This means Springfield GI or a Rock Island.
I wouldn't waste the money on a Loaded, because then you'll be stuck with oversized sight cuts and likely a huge gap between the beavertail and the frame. These two modifications are some of the most commonly requested 1911 jobs, so it will be helpful for you to gain some practice. |
|
Quoted:
I wouldn't waste the money on a Loaded, because then you'll be stuck with oversized sight cuts and likely a huge gap between the beavertail and the frame. What oversized sight cuts are you talking about? My Loaded's have traditional Novak cuts. My beavertails aren't horrible either. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wouldn't waste the money on a Loaded, because then you'll be stuck with oversized sight cuts and likely a huge gap between the beavertail and the frame. What oversized sight cuts are you talking about? My Loaded's have traditional Novak cuts. My beavertails aren't horrible either. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile They could be worse. They could also be a hell of a lot better. 
|
|
Ahh yes, I remember your trainwreck Springfield (9mm?).
That pistol is definitely an exception to the rule. Being somewhat of a Springfield fanboy, I've seen and handled most of them multiple times (except a Pro) and yours was the worst I've seen. I can't fault you for being pissed about it either. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Quoted:
Ahh yes, I remember your trainwreck Springfield (9mm?). That pistol is definitely an exception to the rule. Being somewhat of a Springfield fanboy, I've seen and handled most of them multiple times (except a Pro) and yours was the worst I've seen. I can't fault you for being pissed about it either. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Strangely, this seems to be pretty typical of the Springfields I've shot and worked on. I'm glad you've had better luck than I. |