Posted: 1/23/2010 6:50:24 AM EDT
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Ok guys I have been lurking around reading the 1911 forum for a little while now ever since I got the bug for one about a year ago. I finally have some coin saved up and want to make my first 1911 purchase. I am trying to decide between the Kimber Stainless TLE II (or regular Stainless II and add my own sights of choice) or the SA Loaded in Stainless. I have read over my time here various posts both positive and negative about both of them.
I have shot the Kimber and liked it but have not been able to get my hands on a SA to shoot and may not have the opportunity to do so. So basically I would like to get an idea of the differences between the two specific pistols. I know there are many similar posts like this but I am really looking for specific info on the two listed pistols. The pistol will be a range gun for target shooting, I will not be carrying this one. Any help is appreciated! -Patrick |
| imo SA and "new" Kimbers are about equal. Old Kimbers when they were small and cared about quality would blow a SA away. Don't hear me wrong they both are good guns now a days, just that newer Kimbers seem to need tweaked a little bit every now and then, fitting safetys, slide releases, etc. The kind of stuff you expect now and then out of a stock 1911. |
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I have two Kimbers and one SA (only the GI). The Kimbers shoot much better than the GI. I have shot a Loaded SA and it shot great also.
I would agree that quality wise both are pretty close. If you get the Kimber go with the TLE model. Not only for the night sights, but also front strap checkering. Makes a big difference in the grip, especially if you plan to carry it. I actually own the Stainless TLE II. It is a fantastic gun. The slide to frame fit is as tight as a nun's a**. The finish is great, front strap checkering awesome, and I love the meprolight night sights. Here are the slight flaws I found from the factory: (they are minor), slight toolmarks on frame from cutting out the slide stop notch (I cleaned it up with a file). internal parts (disconnector, swartz push rod, and firing pin safety) came black when they should have been stainless....Kimber subbed parts from the black TLE to build mine (purely asthetic), and of course the plastic mainspring housing. I put in an Ed Brown chainlink MSH, it dropped in perfectly with no fitting at all. I love my Kimber and will probably buy more in the future (after my TRP, Valor, and Ed Brown SF) |
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Similar in quality , lifetime warranty vs 1 yr ( i think) . SA Customer service is great, Kimber has some problems. Im just a novice here with 1911s but I listen to some of the old heads that I work with and They say that the Kimber is a sweet gun but when a problem arises they all have had complaints about dealing with Kimber and most use a local smith and pay out of pocket for everything . SA is the exact opposite, a call to SA and you get pre paid shipping and your gun comes back right under warranty, sometimes with come goodies from SA.
Part of my tax return is going to a Loaded and I am already happy with my GI. for me its SA without question. |
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I have a loaded Champion and a Kimber 5" Eclipse. Both have run flawlessly. Both were bought used. Kimber is a first run Custom Shop pistol with the only part being changed is the slide stop to a Wilson. Champion had the ignition parts gun smith replaced with EGW.
So far as warrany, Limber replaced my night sights, knowing I was second owner under warranty. I believe it's all in how you approach them. |
| Ok trying to respond to the basic theme here is that both are pretty much equal in terms of quality. I would have thought that Kimbers customer service would be better being that it is a smaller company. Having the lifetime warranty is a big factor for SA. I would hope Kimbers warranty is all just a tittle and they will fix things and stand behind their product for life in reality but its not in writing which makes you feel warm and fuzzy. As far as the made in America part are you saying Kimber is made in America and SA is in Brazil? I thought they were both American companies. So I guess it sounds like I cant go wrong with either as stated and its might just be more a preference thing. I really appreciate the input. |
| I have had several SA 1911's. My biggest complaint was that they were poorly fitted and looked like the had been machined by a monkey with a hammer and a chisel. (no offence to monkeys or hand tools). Just not what I wanted to see in a handgun of that nature. As for the customer service issues. I have only dealt with Springfields. That was on one of their XD's. Mine was rusted right from the store and I wound up sending it back. They refinished it for me at no cost but it soon rusted again. They tried to tell me that I needed to keep it cleaned and oiled better. I sold it and bought a Glock. That however, is a story for another forum. My spingfield 1911's were always very fussy with ammo. My Kimbers have been flawless. Just my experience though. |
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Quoted:
Ok trying to respond to the basic theme here is that both are pretty much equal in terms of quality. I would have thought that Kimbers customer service would be better being that it is a smaller company. Having the lifetime warranty is a big factor for SA. I would hope Kimbers warranty is all just a tittle and they will fix things and stand behind their product for life in reality but its not in writing which makes you feel warm and fuzzy. As far as the made in America part are you saying Kimber is made in America and SA is in Brazil? I thought they were both American companies. So I guess it sounds like I cant go wrong with either as stated and its might just be more a preference thing. I really appreciate the input. In response to this.....Both ARE American companies, but SA does not make all of their guns in america. Kimbers are machined and assembled in Yonkers. Higer end SA are made in the US TRP and up, but Loaded on down are made in IMBEL Brazil. Which I wouldn't necessarily say that is a bad thing. They are just paying less for labor. No pistol manufacturer is perfect. All will have some guns with flaws. (NOTE: By manufacturer I do not mean custom smiths or semi custom makers like Wilson, Brown, Baer, etc). As far as warranty and CS goes. I have had good experience so far with Kimber's CS. My guns are still under the warranty period, but they have been very helpful with my questions about custom shop mods. I feel confident enough in Kimber's service to buy more from them in the future. But SA is LIFETIME warranty. Then again so are KIA cars, but that shouldn't be the only reason to get one. |
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Can't go wrong with either pistol.... Comes down to finish and controls. THIS. I had a Springfield Loaded and hated the grip and thumb safety. Sold it and bought a Kimber, which I love. Guy who bought the Springfield from me loves it (he has huge hands and the grip safety didn't bother him) Considering the cheap, sharp, poorly fitted MIM parts uses in the "Loaded" models, I consider then non-loaded Springfields to be a better buy. |
| All this input has been great thanks to all. It is kind of funny though the responses that I have seen in this thread are pretty much like the ones I have read before about general issues with any model Kimber and SA. They are either positive or slightly negative depending on the personal experience of the poster. I guess since they are all mechanical items mass produced by humans (or possibly monkeys lol) that both manufacturers will have poor products that make it through QC on occasion. I am planning on heading to a gun shop on Wednesday this place should have a larger selection of 1911's. Hell you never know I may even walk away with one that day! Thanks again for every ones input. |
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Depends on what you want. For the most part they are the same but the Kimber will have a better overall "fit" for all their parts, they are made in the US, and they tend to be excellent guns with the replacement of a few weak-links. The biggest bummer about them (yes, bigger than their use of MIM) is that they only have a 5 year warranty.
The Springfield will be a supremely reliable gun so long as you buy good magazines and make sure the extractor is tuned correctly. The fit won't be as good as the Kimber unless you find a NM prefix pistol (those are made in Brazil but fitted together here in the states). I like the Loaded because it comes with night sights, doesn't have a plastic MSH, and carries a lifetime warranty. My only complaint about them is they aren't a pistol you can buy online, you MUST find one in a gun shop so you can look it over, some are fitted better then others and it's important that you finger F it before purchasing. |
| I must say that I am surprised. It seems to me that the majority of the people on this forum and others seem to favor the SA loaded. I had pretty much sold myself on the Kimber based on old knowledge of them. As it is now I think that I have been swayed to the SA side under the current direction of both firms. |
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With Kimber's solid reputation of making pistols that don't run, I can't see buying anything less than their Warrior, personally. I've been happy with my Springfields, but they seem to have a better grasp on quality with their MIM parts. Those seem to be Kimbers downfall. |