[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disabling the grip safety? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/17/2009 6:17:39 AM EDT
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I just got a new TRP and the grip safety needs to be depressed almost all the way in order the allow the trigger to travel. I take a very high grip with my thumb above the safety and I dont have enough meat in my palm to engage the safety 100% of the time....especially on fast holster presentations.
Whats the easist way to disable the safety without drilling a hole through the frame and pinning it? I know all the legal liability arguments and Im not concerned about that, Im more concerned about my gun going bang when I need it to. I did a search and couldnt find anything. |
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electrical tape or a rubber band. And of course there is always the answer.  |
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Quoted: Ohhhhh, I like The Answer.........hmmmmmmmm. So as I remove material from the grip safety tang, it will engage with less movement? Correct, you can desensitize the grip safety by removing a small amount of metal. Go very, very slow in removing material unless you just want to neuter it. |
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Im gonna try that first. My Les Baer's grip safety engages with much less movement and I never have that problem.
If it nueters it, oh well. I think its a pointless design anyways. If the trigger is pulled, that means I am holding the gun and the muzzle is pointed at the target, in which case the grip safety is engaged anyways. I learned how to shoot on a 1911 and the thumb safety has never let me down......well that and keeping my finger off the trigger until I want to shoot. |
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Ohhhhh, I like The Answer.........hmmmmmmmm. So as I remove material from the grip safety tang, it will engage with less movement? Correct, you can desensitize the grip safety by removing a small amount of metal. Go very, very slow in removing material unless you just want to neuter it. Sorry, but this is wrong. If you remove metal it will take more movement to engage. It will only take a very little removal before it will fail to engage at all. |
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nope. The more metal you remove the less distance you have to push in the grip safety to clear the trigger. If this was not the case, me removing all the metal would cause my grip safety to always be on. This is correct, I just pulled it and slowly filed away material until just breathing on it disengages the safety. If it eventually wear away until the safety doesnt work, I dont care. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ohhhhh, I like The Answer.........hmmmmmmmm. So as I remove material from the grip safety tang, it will engage with less movement? Correct, you can desensitize the grip safety by removing a small amount of metal. Go very, very slow in removing material unless you just want to neuter it. Sorry, but this is wrong. If you remove metal it will take more movement to engage. It will only take a very little removal before it will fail to engage at all.  ............. we're talking about disengagement of the grip safety. |
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Ive heard that argument before and I just dont see it....unless I accidentally shoot someone. In which case the liability is the same, horrible.
If I intend on shooting someone....I say to the police and in front of a grand jury, "I feared for my life so I shot him to stop the threat." I MEANT to shot him....I train often so that if I have to shoot someone, I am effective at it. At that point, who cares if the gun even has a safety? Revolvers dont have a safety, Sigs dont have a safety....many guns dont have a safety. For that matter, dont use hollow points. Better use ball ammo or you INTENDED to kill my client, not simply stop the threat.....YOU WANTED HIM DEAD!! I'll take the chance rather than not have the gun save my ass when I need it to because my grip doesnt disengage the safety. |
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Quoted: I filed my Ed Brown that I carry until the GS doesnt engage the stirrup at all. I take the same position you do, if I shoot someone I sure as hell meant to shoot them. I still have one more active safety than a revolver or Glock has.Ive heard that argument before and I just dont see it....unless I accidentally shoot someone. In which case the liability is the same, horrible. If I intend on shooting someone....I say to the police and in front of a grand jury, "I feared for my life so I shot him to stop the threat." I MEANT to shot him....I train often so that if I have to shoot someone, I am effective at it. At that point, who cares if the gun even has a safety? Revolvers dont have a safety, Sigs dont have a safety....many guns dont have a safety. For that matter, dont use hollow points. Better use ball ammo or you INTENDED to kill my client, not simply stop the threat.....YOU WANTED HIM DEAD!! I'll take the chance rather than not have the gun save my ass when I need it to because my grip doesnt disengage the safety. |
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nope. The more metal you remove the less distance you have to push in the grip safety to clear the trigger. If this was not the case, me removing all the metal would cause my grip safety to always be on. You are correct. I had a brain malfunction and was thinking from the "engage" side instead of the "disengage" |
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Ive heard that argument before and I just dont see it....unless I accidentally shoot someone. In which case the liability is the same, horrible. If I intend on shooting someone....I say to the police and in front of a grand jury, "I feared for my life so I shot him to stop the threat." I MEANT to shot him....I train often so that if I have to shoot someone, I am effective at it. At that point, who cares if the gun even has a safety? Revolvers dont have a safety, Sigs dont have a safety....many guns dont have a safety. For that matter, dont use hollow points. Better use ball ammo or you INTENDED to kill my client, not simply stop the threat.....YOU WANTED HIM DEAD!! I'll take the chance rather than not have the gun save my ass when I need it to because my grip doesnt disengage the safety. The issue is that these guns are designed without the afore mentioned safeties. With the 1911, you ACTIVELY de-activate a safety designed into the gun. That is the source of the problem. As stated above, it is the Prosecutor who determines if there is a problem or not. |
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For that matter, dont use hollow points. Better use ball ammo or you INTENDED to kill my client, not simply stop the threat.....YOU WANTED HIM DEAD!! Current case law has basically said this argument has no merit. The use of a firearm constitutes lethal force, you are only ensuring maximum effectiveness of your intent (neutralizing the threat) by using the correct ammo. |
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What I meant when I said "you assume all liability" was not about when you ventilate a bad guy. I meant that if you manage to put a round into your own leg as a result of you following our suggestion, it's your problem, not ours.  Oh, of course it is, but then again isnt it always? As far as my comment about hollowpoint VS ball ammo, I was just making a point. If I ever shoot someone its going to be intentional, in which case a safety is irrelevant because I meant to pull the trigger and the grip safety woulda be deactivated whether by my palm or a dremel to regardless. |
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I just got a new TRP and the grip safety needs to be depressed almost all the way in order the allow the trigger to travel. I take a very high grip with my thumb above the safety and I dont have enough meat in my palm to engage the safety 100% of the time....especially on fast holster presentations. Whats the easist way to disable the safety without drilling a hole through the frame and pinning it? I know all the legal liability arguments and Im not concerned about that, Im more concerned about my gun going bang when I need it to. I did a search and couldnt find anything. you can have it pinned by a qualified 1911gunsmith. that's what competitors do. or even simple electrical tape will do, but it looks like ass..... |
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or even simple electrical tape will do, but it looks like ass..... Damn straight! 
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a12/Xnij/GripTape.jpg lol |
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Ohhhhh, I like The Answer.........hmmmmmmmm. So as I remove material from the grip safety tang, it will engage with less movement? Correct, you can desensitize the grip safety by removing a small amount of metal. Go very, very slow in removing material unless you just want to neuter it. I'd remove metal from the width of the tang not the length. |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but "The Answer" is actually an old idea. Didn't the early prototypes (model 1910, maybe?) have a one-piece backstrap? Didn't the Army request an additional safety? IIRC, the Army requested an additional safety because they believed the grip safety alone wasn't enough. Grip safety added 1908 Manual safety added 1910 History of 1911 Development |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but "The Answer" is actually an old idea. Didn't the early prototypes (model 1910, maybe?) have a one-piece backstrap? Didn't the Army request an additional safety? IIRC, the Army requested an additional safety because they believed the grip safety alone wasn't enough. Grip safety added 1908 Manual safety added 1910 History of 1911 Development I stand corrected. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=85713 |
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This. On my STI Trojan that I use for USPSA competition, I don't always disengage the grip safety due to my hand shape, and my high grip, particularly with all the movement of action shooting. unholstering, mag changes, etc. I removed metal from the grip safety to the point where it won't block the trigger anymore. Works great. The scenarios where grip safeties help are weird anyway. If I ever want to return the grip safety function, I'll buy a new grip safety. |
Or you could get a grip safety with an extension that allows even those of us with low body fat in the palm to engage it every time:
I had two 1911s that would occasionally let me know I had not taken a proper grip, by refusing to fire. This fixed it. Ron Phillips pistol; I do not think this sort of tang is all that difficult to find. But I would certainly not spend $730 to disengage a safety. On the other hand, I do not want to be sitting in a witness box and be presented with my 1911, and be asked why I wrapped electrical tape around the grip to make the gun more "hair trigger," hence more likely to maim my interrogator's client. |
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Or you could get a grip safety with an extension that allows even those of us with low body fat in the palm to engage it every time: http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/geohans/RSCN3903.jpg I had two 1911s that would occasionally let me know I had not taken a proper grip, by refusing to fire. This fixed it. Ron Phillips pistol; I do not think this sort of tang is all that difficult to find. But I would certainly not spend $730 to disengage a safety. On the other hand, I do not want to be sitting in a witness box and be presented with my 1911, and be asked why I wrapped electrical tape around the grip to make the gun more "hair trigger," hence more likely to maim my interrogator's client. My grip safety already has the bump on it. Still probably once or twice a range session it will fail to disengage on that first round. Hence Im thinking about pinning it or "the anwser" right now I have the piece of string holding it in. My last real worry in or after a shooting is if I deactivated the grip safety by picking up the gun or by using a piece of string/tape. Yeah i did...so what? |
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"On the other hand, I do not want to be sitting in a witness box and be presented with my 1911, and be asked why I wrapped electrical tape around the grip to make the gun more "hair trigger," hence more likely to maim my interrogator's client." Electric tape comes off easily and quickly, if need be. |
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No argument here, gentlemen; you have to do what you have to do. I would try first to find a safety with a big enough tang to engage 100 percent. Failing that, I would consider some of the solutions suggested here, along with perhaps another format altogether. I would not discount the impact on a jury, in the hands of a good prosecutor. Stock is good, if you can make it work for you.
I do not count on having the presence of mind after a shooting, nor the fine motor skills, to remove electrical tape. It will leave a residue, and will still need to be explained. I know I sold a high level semi custom largely because the grip safety required a perfect grasp every time, for my apparently-ham-deficient palm. My solution was a pistol built by a master craftsman, and it worked. And it didn't cost any more than a similarly equipped semi custom. |
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Or you could get a grip safety with an extension that allows even those of us with low body fat in the palm to engage it every time: http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/geohans/RSCN3903.jpg I had two 1911s that would occasionally let me know I had not taken a proper grip, by refusing to fire. This fixed it. Ron Phillips pistol; I do not think this sort of tang is all that difficult to find. But I would certainly not spend $730 to disengage a safety. On the other hand, I do not want to be sitting in a witness box and be presented with my 1911, and be asked why I wrapped electrical tape around the grip to make the gun more "hair trigger," hence more likely to maim my interrogator's client. Yeah because if I was sooooo worried about it I totally wouldn't just unwrap the tape and chuck it after I shot somebody. This has the same basis as the reloads for self defense crowd.. Absoutely nothing. AND no one is going to give a rat's ass or even notice that your gun had tape on it at one time. They are going to notice what they always notice. Rounds missing? Check. Recently fired? Check. Bullets match? Check. Anything past that they don't give a crap about. |
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No argument here, gentlemen; you have to do what you have to do. I would try first to find a safety with a big enough tang to engage 100 percent. Failing that, I would consider some of the solutions suggested here, along with perhaps another format altogether. I would not discount the impact on a jury, in the hands of a good prosecutor. Stock is good, if you can make it work for you. I do not count on having the presence of mind after a shooting, nor the fine motor skills, to remove electrical tape. It will leave a residue, and will still need to be explained. I know I sold a high level semi custom largely because the grip safety required a perfect grasp every time, for my apparently-ham-deficient palm. My solution was a pistol built by a master craftsman, and it worked. And it didn't cost any more than a similarly equipped semi custom. I can count on two fingers the prosecutors that I have ever met who have a clue about guns...and far less civil attorneys. Never met one yet who would know a grip safety from a "clicky thing on the back of the gun". |
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No argument here, gentlemen; you have to do what you have to do. I would try first to find a safety with a big enough tang to engage 100 percent. Failing that, I would consider some of the solutions suggested here, along with perhaps another format altogether. I would not discount the impact on a jury, in the hands of a good prosecutor. Stock is good, if you can make it work for you. I do not count on having the presence of mind after a shooting, nor the fine motor skills, to remove electrical tape. It will leave a residue, and will still need to be explained. I know I sold a high level semi custom largely because the grip safety required a perfect grasp every time, for my apparently-ham-deficient palm. My solution was a pistol built by a master craftsman, and it worked. And it didn't cost any more than a similarly equipped semi custom. I can count on two fingers the prosecutors that I have ever met who have a clue about guns...and far less civil attorneys. Never met one yet who would know a grip safety from a "clicky thing on the back of the gun". While you are correct in your observation of prosecutors in general, the firearms tech ( a court quilified 'expert') who examines and tests your pistol...if it comes to that...which was, of course, seized as evidence, WILL realize the grip safety has been deactivated, and will note that fact in his / her report. Ditto for residue from tape. Maybe it won't come to that or maybe it will. If it does and said prosecutor is a Janet Reno / Eric Holder type, and if the shooting is the least bit controversial, that little fact just might become a big issue. Remember, a case is all about putting reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors who mostly have even less knowledge of guns than the lawyers involved. Lots of prosecutors have political aspirations and will happily stomp on any average guy to feather their own nest. You think a jury might not believe that deliberate removal of a factory installed safety device or feature was evidence of a 'reckless and wanton disregard for the safety of others'...or maybe that it showed that you 'wanted to main or kill someone so badly' that you removed it? If so, I envy you your naivety. It is obvious you have spent little time observing criminal court trials, and probably less in Grand Jury observations. Considering that even a cheap criminal lawyer will probably charge $15,000 just to take a case, and that a good prosecutor could get the average Grand Jury to indict a hamburger, it would seem to be reasonable that in this day and age, complete deactivation of such a safety device might not be too smart...at least to me. Others are, as always, free to do what they wish. |
| Back to the topic at hand, I have seen shock-buffs trimmed to fit on top of the mainspring housing. The buff will wedge the grip safety down and the hammer strut passes through the hole in the middle of the buff. I don't have a photo but it's a painless and easy-to-reverse method of deactivating the grip safety. |
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No argument here, gentlemen; you have to do what you have to do. I would try first to find a safety with a big enough tang to engage 100 percent. Failing that, I would consider some of the solutions suggested here, along with perhaps another format altogether. I would not discount the impact on a jury, in the hands of a good prosecutor. Stock is good, if you can make it work for you. I do not count on having the presence of mind after a shooting, nor the fine motor skills, to remove electrical tape. It will leave a residue, and will still need to be explained. I know I sold a high level semi custom largely because the grip safety required a perfect grasp every time, for my apparently-ham-deficient palm. My solution was a pistol built by a master craftsman, and it worked. And it didn't cost any more than a similarly equipped semi custom. I can count on two fingers the prosecutors that I have ever met who have a clue about guns...and far less civil attorneys. Never met one yet who would know a grip safety from a "clicky thing on the back of the gun". While you are correct in your observation of prosecutors in general, the firearms tech ( a court quilified 'expert') who examines and tests your pistol...if it comes to that...which was, of course, seized as evidence, WILL realize the grip safety has been deactivated, and will note that fact in his / her report. Ditto for residue from tape. Maybe it won't come to that or maybe it will. If it does and said prosecutor is a Janet Reno / Eric Holder type, and if the shooting is the least bit controversial, that little fact just might become a big issue. Remember, a case is all about putting reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors who mostly have even less knowledge of guns than the lawyers involved. Lots of prosecutors have political aspirations and will happily stomp on any average guy to feather their own nest. You think a jury might not believe that deliberate removal of a factory installed safety device or feature was evidence of a 'reckless and wanton disregard for the safety of others'...or maybe that it showed that you 'wanted to main or kill someone so badly' that you removed it? If so, I envy you your naivety. It is obvious you have spent little time observing criminal court trials, and probably less in Grand Jury observations. Considering that even a cheap criminal lawyer will probably charge $15,000 just to take a case, and that a good prosecutor could get the average Grand Jury to indict a hamburger, it would seem to be reasonable that in this day and age, complete deactivation of such a safety device might not be too smart...at least to me. Others are, as always, free to do what they wish. Uhuh just 20 years as a working detective.. |
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Ohhhhh, I like The Answer.........hmmmmmmmm. So as I remove material from the grip safety tang, it will engage with less movement? Correct, you can desensitize the grip safety by removing a small amount of metal. Go very, very slow in removing material unless you just want to neuter it. Sorry, but this is wrong. If you remove metal it will take more movement to engage. It will only take a very little removal before it will fail to engage at all. ............. we're talking about disengagement of the grip safety.
That's what I was thinking. Maybe if you use an aftermarket beavertail? My Springfield GI takes very little pressure to disengage. Maybe you should talk to Springfield. |
Just remove the material from the bottom of the tang that blocks the trigger's rearward movement. If you take your time you can remove just enough material to make the grip safety "deactivate" with only the slightest amount of movement. The safety will still function as intended but will clear the trigger strut with less than a perfect grip. Its really VERY simple to do. Just remove a little material at a time. 
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Or you could Obama rig it and build up an extension on the lower part of the grip safety with thick foam tape. If I ever bought a new 1911 and the grip safety didn't work the way I wanted I would call the Mfg and see what they could do for me. Have spoken to the good people at Wilson and both of my Elites are goin in after the holidays to see what they can do to make it disengage easier. Ill let you know what happens with it. |