Posted: 9/28/2009 1:24:49 PM EDT
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A friend of mine inherited 93 very rare guns from a father in law. I have been wanting a 1911. He told me that I could have one of his for $500. Its a blue Colt mk4/series 70 Government model in 98-99% condition. I knew it was worth around $750 so after a quick glance I handed over the cash and then started to oogle over all the other stuff he had. After I got home I started really looking over the thing and realized it had a funny trigger and trigger guard. After some investigation I found out it is a LW Seecamp double action conversion done in the early 70s. It appears to be totally stock other than the conversion. What is this thing worth?
Thanks for the help. |
| Well I'm not selling the sum bitch to you, so what do you care what my 99% is. I would appreciate the help, but if you don't know what a Colt 70 gov model looks like then you sure in the hell don't know what mine with the conversion is worth either. I'd appreciate the help but if you are gonna get snippy I'll bag the help and reply with a good old fashion foad. |
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If you google "colt seacamp conversion" you'll find lots of entries.
Here's one from gunbroker: seacamp conversion At $1200 it didn't attract much interest. |
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"Sketchy Seecamp conversion" I think you have no idea what you are talking about. Seecamp is a legend. To quote Wikipedia. . . . .
The Seecamp patented spring system then introduced is now used in Glocks, Kimbers, Colts, Para Ordnances, Kahrs, Springfields, etc. Almost every locked breech miniaturized semi auto pistol now uses the Seecamp spring system that allows for miniaturized semi auto locked breech pistols. Although not quite John Moses Browning, Seecamp is one of the more influential gun smiths ever. I really don't care what your opinion is of Seecamp, but look into what you are talking about before you open your pie hole. I for one see no reason to have a double action 1911, but I own it. Apparently it is some what rare and that is all I am interested in. However you did nail me. . . .I should have looked at the thing for a second, I didn't even give it a glance (I own a lot of guns). I was hugely distracted by the two FN assault rifles he had. I forgot the name of them, but there are only 19 in the country and he had 2 unfired ones that are valued at around $20K. Also he had an unfired Colt AR15 SP1 with a serial number of 364. That's just to start. I looked at his stuff for 3 hours. All of it was of a rare nature. He didn't just have a Colt Python it was a Python with a very low serial number. You get the idea. |
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Quoted:
"Sketchy Seecamp conversion" I think you have no idea what you are talking about. Seecamp is a legend. To quote Wikipedia. . . . . The Seecamp patented spring system then introduced is now used in Glocks, Kimbers, Colts, Para Ordnances, Kahrs, Springfields, etc. Almost every locked breech miniaturized semi auto pistol now uses the Seecamp spring system that allows for miniaturized semi auto locked breech pistols. Although not quite John Moses Browning, Seecamp is one of the more influential gun smiths ever. I really don't care what your opinion is of Seecamp, but look into what you are talking about before you open your pie hole. I for one see no reason to have a double action 1911, but I own it. Apparently it is some what rare and that is all I am interested in. However you did nail me. . . .I should have looked at the thing for a second, I didn't even give it a glance (I own a lot of guns). I was hugely distracted by the two FN assault rifles he had. I forgot the name of them, but there are only 19 in the country and he had 2 unfired ones that are valued at around $20K. Also he had an unfired Colt AR15 SP1 with a serial number of 364. That's just to start. I looked at his stuff for 3 hours. All of it was of a rare nature. He didn't just have a Colt Python it was a Python with a very low serial number. You get the idea. I think you need to adjust your tone a bit. You are misreading people a lot and it appears that you're a hot-head. "Sketchy" does not mean the same thing as "shitty" and "questionable". Sketchy would mean "unclear", which is appropriate because this model of gun was not widely known and there were not a large number built. Does that make it worth a lot? I guess it's depends. Maybe around $1000 to the right buyer? That's kind of a wild guess. It would be worth more if it were truly a 98% Colt MKIV Series 70 (not modified). I'd like to see some pics, honestly. Also using the term "assault rifle" is shunned upon here, and rightfully so. Just "rifle" will do. |
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Wow! That's UNIQUE! So, it is to be carried with the hammer down, and the trigger is double-action?! Does the trigger then feel like a DAO, or like a striker-fired trigger?
Is it at all similar to the Para Ordnance LDA triggers? Were the rifles FN FNCs, or FN FALs? FNCs are pretty valuable now, because there are registered sears available for them. |
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I don't really know how you would carry it. It is strange. . . . the safety only works if the hammer is cocked. With the hammer down it feels like a Smith DA revolver. So I guess you would carry one chambered and fire like a double action revolver. Cooper said it best "its a solution to a non existent problem."
I think the rifles were FNC's. I know he had a list of 21 serial numbers that were imported in the early 80's and the FBI took 2 of em leaving only 19 that had been imported to the states. |
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Quoted:
I don't really know how you would carry it. It is strange. . . . the safety only works if the hammer is cocked. With the hammer down it feels like a Smith DA revolver. So I guess you would carry one chambered and fire like a double action revolver. Cooper said it best "its a solution to a non existent problem." I think the rifles were FNC's. I know he had a list of 21 serial numbers that were imported in the early 80's and the FBI took 2 of em leaving only 19 that had been imported to the states. In addition to Seecamp doing the conversions on Colts such as yours, the system was licensed to ODI who produced a DA .45 known as the "Viking." More information on the conversions may be found here: http://www.m1911.org/seecamp.htm. I believe the remark about the "sketchy" conversion did not refer to the quality of the conversion. In this respect, I would think that the poster meant you have a pistol for which spare parts may be hard to find. Seecamp has a reputation as a talented designer, and for awhile his mini .32's were the hot ticket for small BUGS. As far as the rifles go, they may be FNC's ( I haven't seen them, so I can't say for sure), but even one with a registered sear isn't worth 20K. I've also not heard of the Feds picking up any specific FNC's (other than illegal conversions), but who knows. Could your friend's rifles be "G" series FAL's? The ATF did determine that a certain serial number range of those imported were MG's, and those were confiscated. The remaining "G" models command a hefty premium among collectors. And as another poster pointed out, you may want to lighten up a bit and save the "FOAD"'s for when they're really called for. Around here, the phrase "pics or it didn't happen" is mostly used to get folks to show off their new toys, not as a challenge of your veracity. This is especially true in the case of a conversion that many folks here have never heard of, much less seen. |
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Around here, the phrase "pics or it didn't happen" is mostly used to get folks to show off their new toys, not as a challenge of your veracity. This is especially true in the case of a conversion that many folks here have never heard of, much less seen. +1, you must learn the ways of the Arfcom. |
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If you google "colt seacamp conversion" you'll find lots of entries. Here's one from gunbroker: seacamp conversion At $1200 it didn't attract much interest. $1200.00 for a fucked up Colt 70 series. 
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| The seecamp conversion was the basis for Colt coming out with the Double Eagle. It didn't set the world on fire, so Colt dropped it. You have an unusual gun. It is worth some bux to the right person. Now all you gotta do is find him. Otherwise, it's an example of seecamp's clever designs. No parts are available, so be careful when you shoot it... |
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btw my apologies if I misinterpreted what I took as a smug reply. This is what my second reply was. I believe you all focus on ones post count and use that as a guide on what some one knows. I visit this ar15.com every day and rarely post because from what I have observed many of you use the "guy behind the gun counter approach." Which is, immediately assume everyone is an idiot and that way I look good approach. I was obviously wrong and did address that. After all this is not the General section. I agree that $1200 for a Colt 70 is full retard, but I guess someone out there may be a fan. I shot it today. . . . . its a Colt 70. I like it, but its nothing special. |
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I don't really know how you would carry it. It is strange. . . . the safety only works if the hammer is cocked. With the hammer down it feels like a Smith DA revolver. So I guess you would carry one chambered and fire like a double action revolver. Cooper said it best "its a solution to a non existent problem." I think the rifles were FNC's. I know he had a list of 21 serial numbers that were imported in the early 80's and the FBI took 2 of em leaving only 19 that had been imported to the states. In addition to Seecamp doing the conversions on Colts such as yours, the system was licensed to ODI who produced a DA .45 known as the "Viking." More information on the conversions may be found here: http://www.m1911.org/seecamp.htm. I believe the remark about the "sketchy" conversion did not refer to the quality of the conversion. In this respect, I would think that the poster meant you have a pistol for which spare parts may be hard to find. Seecamp has a reputation as a talented designer, and for awhile his mini .32's were the hot ticket for small BUGS. As far as the rifles go, they may be FNC's ( I haven't seen them, so I can't say for sure), but even one with a registered sear isn't worth 20K. I've also not heard of the Feds picking up any specific FNC's (other than illegal conversions), but who knows. Could your friend's rifles be "G" series FAL's? The ATF did determine that a certain serial number range of those imported were MG's, and those were confiscated. The remaining "G" models command a hefty premium among collectors. And as another poster pointed out, you may want to lighten up a bit and save the "FOAD"'s for when they're really called for. Around here, the phrase "pics or it didn't happen" is mostly used to get folks to show off their new toys, not as a challenge of your veracity. This is especially true in the case of a conversion that many folks here have never heard of, much less seen. You all were wondering about the FNs, so I asked the guy I got the pistol from. He said they are Katense Cia FN CAL .223. I googled that and came up with nothing. However I googled FN CAL and that looked like the rifles. I guess it is a precursor to the FAL that failed. Anyway he had a confirmed a list of only 21 serial numbers that had been imported to the states in early 1980's and 2 were taken by the Feds. Also the last one had been sold for $19K in 2006. All his story. . . . . . . |