Posted: 7/1/2009 12:21:21 PM EDT
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I just bought a GI type 1911 pistol and I'm having trouble with the bullets feeding low out of the magazine and getting stuck where the feed ramp meets the throat of the chamber. I saw an article about the old USGI magazines with tapered feed lips working great with ball ammo (which is all I'll ever shoot out of this pistol) due to the fact that they are designed so that the bullet feeds out of the magazine with the bullet "tipped up" higher than the newer hybrid style magazines.
Does anyone know of an online source for either real USGI mags or know if any new magazines have the USGI style tapered feed lips? Thanks, Scott |
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Does anyone know of an online source for either real USGI mags or know if any new magazines have the USGI style tapered feed lips?
First off, check your extractor tension. A too-tight extractor will do this, and since you said "GI type" I wonder if you have a Springfield, which is notorious for not being able to build/install this simple part correctly. Check this: http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm Ok, if that doesn't help, consider the ammo. It is doing this with all ammo types, or how many have you tried? Sounds like you are describing a "three point" jam - the cartridge pinned at three points by the ramp bridge, top of the chamber, and the breechface of the slide. You can google/search "three point jam" and find out more possible causes. Ok, about magazines: You can buy "knock off" USGI magazines at gunbroker or gun shows. They have that design, but they are a poorer quality tube and spring and generally won't last long. I do not recommend them. Metalform lists some "WWI" repro magazines in their products. They do not state explicity what the feed lips are; you can email or call them and find out. I would try Colt "hybrid" magazines as they are designed to incorporate the best of the tapered lip features (slow, controlled rise until hitting the breechface/extractor) yet work with various different bullet designs. For comparison, here is a very early WWII "GI" contract magazine with the classic feed lip style: 
Besides Colt (good deals online at impact guns; about $25 each), you can try Metalform magazines - they are generally built to the same specs (they are a Colt OEM supplier). They also make SA magazines. This is one of the smartest things SA did - using good magazines and giving coupons to buy more of them in bulk cheaply. I have found in some limited testing so far that SA magazines work as well as Colt magazines in my various guns (meaning, about perfect - 7 round Colt magazines are my go-to magazine over all others I've tested). Here is a picture of an SA magazine with it's feed lip style. Ignore the follower; that's a Wilson as this was a test situation and I had swapped springs and followers. 
Something I was surprised to find is that with my loads, the "GI" magazines (I have three, two Risdon WWI contract, early wary and pre-war, and a 1950s era Sistema Colt licensed magazine from Argentina) ran as efficiently with ALL ammo I tested as did the Colt Hybrids! That included 200gr. LSWC, 230RNL, 230FMJ, and 230 HP. Note YOUR results with 230 HP and 200 LSWC will depend upon how well those are loaded so the critical points of the projectile replicate the original ogive on the 230 gr FMJ round - modern ammo should do that, or careful handloads. My recommendations: 1) Skip the knock-off 'GI' magazines - find real old ones, or 2) Get real Colt magazines (again, not knock-offs) 3) Try SA or other Metalform magazines. Currently the Metalform blue, 7rd. "Five Hole" magazines are 1/2 off if you buy two or more. Great deal. |
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Check-Mate Industries makes a GI-type 1911 mag, with the full-length tapered feed lips and the dimpled follower.
http://www.checkmateindustries.com/handgun.htm#tbl1, scroll down, you'll be looking for the CM45-7-B-GI and the CM45-7-S-GI for GI-spec magazines in blue or stainless, respectively. You'll have to phone them, as they don't presently have an e-commerce site, but they will sell direct to you AFAIK. Not sure about prices, I know the M1911.org forum has group buys once in a blue moon or so, though. |
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Quoted:
 I have found Wilson Combat work best in my old Colt's and McCormick 2nd best.
Some old pro told me they build theirs so that the feed leaps are just a little higher because they the moved the magazine catch just a bot. While I wont knock Wilson mags, I can buy 3 maybe even 4 USGI or Colt OEM mags for what one Wilson would cost. I have about 50 mags like this and have zero issues in the 6 different 1911's I use them in. |
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Thanks for the responses, guys. I had seen the checkmate mags, but wasn't sure where to get them. I'll probably call and at least see how much they are.
As for the Metalform mags for 1/2 price, where is that from? I found a Metalform website, but it has 4 pages of 1911 mags and I couldn't figure out which ones were which. Anyway, you guys seem to really know you stuff (especially Oro––Thanks!) so let me give you some more info to work with. The pistol is a Double Star. I bought it new, but old stock. I'm not sure they even make a GI model anymore. 
I really like the gun––I just haven't got it to function yet. Anyway, this is the problem I'm having: 
Here is the follower and feed lips of the magazine that came with the pistol: 
These are the bullets I'm using: 
The ammo is stuff that I reloaded. It's a 200 grain Rainier bullet. They work great in a Glock 21, which is what I've been using them for. I don't have any factory .45 ammo, and I'm hesitant to buy any (if I can even find any locally). It's going to be very expensive and if it doesn't fix the malfunctions, I'll have thrown another $25 at a problem that I shouldn't be having with a new gun. I probably should, though, just to be sure. In addition to the magazine that came with the gun, I have 5 brand new McCormick Shooting Star mags and the above pictured malfunction happens with all of them––both with a fully loaded mag from slidelock and mid-magazine after a successful cycle. I have fired 100 rounds and haven't made it through a mag yet without at least one malfunction. Any suggestions? |
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As for the Metalform mags for 1/2 price, where is that from? I found a Metalform website, but it has 4 pages of 1911 mags and I couldn't figure out which ones were which.
OK, i should have helped - they are the very last ones in the .45 list, last page (I think they have four whole pages of .45 magazine models). "Five hole" model. Click on "quantity discount" and watch the price drop by 1/2. OK, couple more thoughts: 1) I know nothing about Double Stars. You may want to google and search to learn more about them and if they had or have known problems. I know nothing. 2) That barrel throat looks awfully steep. Awfully steep. Don't go cutting or dremeling on it right away, but let me get some GI type guns out tomorrow and compare, or others can comment 3) That magazine looks tweaked - the follower doesn't look right, someone has twisted the slide stop shelf to help with actuation and bent it. It's also rounded, which are weaker than flat style. lastly, the lips, while Colt hybrid type, are massively uneven from side-to-side and look like hell. Trash that magazine; it has no salvageable parts - tube, follower, and if both of those are so bad likely the spring is junk. Junk it. IF that is the magazine they are shipping with new guns, that is a very bad sign. 4) Did you test your extractor? 5) Now, before you get discouraged, the WORST reloading success I have ever had with the .45 was with 185gr. LSWC and 200gr. RN/FMJ. The gun is designed to work with 230gr. FMJ, and of course 230RNL shaped the same works fine. Every other projectile needs to be shaped at a few very critical points to mimic what the shape of this round is (it's "ogive" on the curve). This will mimic that round as it strikes the ramp/throat/chamber. I can load 200gr. LSWC that runs better than 200RN/FMJ. You may want to just get some 230 ball bullets and try loading them into your brass. 6) The solid crease mark in the bullet in the last photo makes it look like the round is not sliding up into the extractor easily - the extractor is too tight. That will make the slide/breechface "sit" down hard on the round as it tries to chamber. However, it can also be caused by an out-of-spec round as mentioned above. So since you reload, that really opens things up. yeah, I hate paying retail ammo prices, too. You can also experiment with the COAL to see how that affects it. Sometimes, loading 200 just a little long fixes things, as it puts a little wider bullet profile out to interact with the ramp/throat more like a 230. What COAL are those 200gr loads you made? I think I have some 200RNL's left that I loaded that worked well, i can mike them tomorrow and see what they are. But seriously, look at the magazine in your photo and look how uneven the lips are and imagine how badly they are going to tension the round. Scroll up and look at the magazine lips I pictured and note how even they are side-to-side. Draw a mental image down the middle of the magazine front to back and compare the lips as if in a mirror. Now consider my two were built, respectively, in 1941 and 1956. Yours should never have made it past QC. Now, I am not going to label this as Double Star being awful because I will tell you this - unless you take delivery of the gun new from the distributor or reputable dealer, odds are 50/50 someone has stripped out the quality magazines on a good gun and substituted Chinese junk. Besides, almost all new guns come with two magazines, if you only got one, it sounds like someone probably snatched them and stuck an $8 gun show magazine in it. Maybe it came from Double Star; maybe it didn't - I'm not going to slam them unless I know that for a fact. But that may be most of your problem there, that and maybe a slightly out-of-spec extractor. If you bought that gun from a dealer, go back to them and say "WTF? and where is my other magazine?" If they say it came from Double Star that way, call them and email them your photos (and link them to this thread). That's just scary. And let us know what the seller and Double star says so we can find out if they are a serious builder, or if someone hijacked the factory supplied magazines along the way. |
| the photo of the follower you have posted,is not good.set aside and get a (some) quality magazine, wilson or mccormick. actually, i had bought a kimber mag i was impressed with. as time goes on, you will get the idea of what type of mags will feed properly for you.doublestar should be no problem, except for a possible minor throat job, but not necessarily.usgi mags are not really worth messing with besides, you`re limited to 7 rounds.good luck. |
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Quoted:
Thanks for the responses, guys. I had seen the checkmate mags, but wasn't sure where to get them. I'll probably call and at least see how much they are. As for the Metalform mags for 1/2 price, where is that from? I found a Metalform website, but it has 4 pages of 1911 mags and I couldn't figure out which ones were which. Anyway, you guys seem to really know you stuff (especially Oro––Thanks!) so let me give you some more info to work with. The pistol is a Double Star. I bought it new, but old stock. I'm not sure they even make a GI model anymore. http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk152/scottpoole2008/IMG_0610.jpg I really like the gun––I just haven't got it to function yet. Anyway, this is the problem I'm having: http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk152/scottpoole2008/IMG_0599.jpg Here is the follower and feed lips of the magazine that came with the pistol: http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk152/scottpoole2008/IMG_0606.jpg These are the bullets I'm using: http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk152/scottpoole2008/IMG_0603.jpg The ammo is stuff that I reloaded. It's a 200 grain Rainier bullet. They work great in a Glock 21, which is what I've been using them for. I don't have any factory .45 ammo, and I'm hesitant to buy any (if I can even find any locally). It's going to be very expensive and if it doesn't fix the malfunctions, I'll have thrown another $25 at a problem that I shouldn't be having with a new gun. I probably should, though, just to be sure. In addition to the magazine that came with the gun, I have 5 brand new McCormick Shooting Star mags and the above pictured malfunction happens with all of them––both with a fully loaded mag from slidelock and mid-magazine after a successful cycle. I have fired 100 rounds and haven't made it through a mag yet without at least one malfunction. Any suggestions? I am far from an expert but it does not look like that barrel has much of a feed ramp. It looks very different from my SA 1911a1! |