Posted: 6/22/2009 7:11:27 AM EDT
|
I dont understand why it works so well on say a Sig 220 or a Glock but its forbidden on a 1911?
Why would Sig and S&W go that route, wouldnt they know that it would hurt sales if most wont buy with the external? |
|
A failed external extractor design doesn't condemn all external extractors. Those who decry externals on 1911s usually do it from an "if it ain't broke don't fix it standpoint" and sentimental reasons, rather than a "they're junk" mindset.
"Most" 1911 guys won't buy Sigs anyway, because of the style and mechanical deviations. Doesn't help that they're priced like Sigs. As far as Smith goes, who can figure out why they do anything they do? |
|
Kimbers external extractor was a flawed design compounded by quality control problems with the parts. S&W has used it's external extractor design for decades before using it on it's 1911 pistols. While it works it is proprietary, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you have to get replacement parts from S&W. Sig has had several redesigns of it's 1911 as they had some serious QC and assembly problems with their original offerings. Once again theirs is a proprietary design, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you must get parts from them. The conventional internal extractor design of the 1911 is easily field replaceable. Quality replacement parts are made by numerous companies and are easily obtained from numerous sources. |
|
Quoted: Kimbers external extractor was a flawed design compounded by quality control problems with the parts. S&W has used it's external extractor design for decades before using it on it's 1911 pistols. While it works it is proprietary, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you have to get replacement parts from S&W. Sig has had several redesigns of it's 1911 as they had some serious QC and assembly problems with their original offerings. Once again theirs is a proprietary design, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you must get parts from them. The conventional internal extractor design of the 1911 is easily field replaceable. Quality replacement parts are made by numerous companies and are easily obtained from numerous sources. This is the biggest reason IMHO. |
|
Quoted:
Kimbers external extractor was a flawed design compounded by quality control problems with the parts. S&W has used it's external extractor design for decades before using it on it's 1911 pistols. While it works it is proprietary, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you have to get replacement parts from S&W. Sig has had several redesigns of it's 1911 as they had some serious QC and assembly problems with their original offerings. Once again theirs is a proprietary design, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you must get parts from them. The conventional internal extractor design of the 1911 is easily field replaceable. Quality replacement parts are made by numerous companies and are easily obtained from numerous sources. Good post. One thing that manufacturer's don't get, is that the 1911, like the AR15, is not a perfect design, but standardization is a wonderful thing. External extractors are like gas pistons. Okay, if that's what you want, pros or cons, but now, it's not standardized any more. |
|
Quoted:
Kimbers external extractor was a flawed design compounded by quality control problems with the parts. S&W has used it's external extractor design for decades before using it on it's 1911 pistols. While it works it is proprietary, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you have to get replacement parts from S&W. Sig has had several redesigns of it's 1911 as they had some serious QC and assembly problems with their original offerings. Once again theirs is a proprietary design, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you must get parts from them. The conventional internal extractor design of the 1911 is easily field replaceable. Quality replacement parts are made by numerous companies and are easily obtained from numerous sources. Word! |
|
Quoted:
Kimbers external extractor was a flawed design compounded by quality control problems with the parts. S&W has used it's external extractor design for decades before using it on it's 1911 pistols. While it works it is proprietary, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you have to get replacement parts from S&W. Sig has had several redesigns of it's 1911 as they had some serious QC and assembly problems with their original offerings. Once again theirs is a proprietary design, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you must get parts from them. The conventional internal extractor design of the 1911 is easily field replaceable. Quality replacement parts are made by numerous companies and are easily obtained from numerous sources. Most parts for a 1911 require fitting from a specifically trained armorer. Grand parents and friends can replace extractors, they can take out old ones and can insert new ones into the gun but really supposed to be fit. Going to the range for 100 rounds it may work well but that would be finicky luck to have it just work under any hard use. Besides the slide stop I have not seen anyone just replace parts of any modern 1911 and just go on finishing a Thunder Ranch class. If you strip and dump 10 sig 226s into a box and mix up the parts each gun will work. If you do the same thing with 1911's you are going to have issues. So any differences in sig 1911's is no adding any degree of the need for trained work on the gun. The sig did have some isses early but have gotten very good reviews for the past 2 years. The external extractor works and takes away some of the need to be a "1911 aficianado" to have a competent gun. Sig 1911 parts are compatible with any other 1911 parts. I just had a wilson ambi trigger added to my GSR, no special method, no special sig only instructions, no adaptor. They just added the trigger. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kimbers external extractor was a flawed design compounded by quality control problems with the parts. S&W has used it's external extractor design for decades before using it on it's 1911 pistols. While it works it is proprietary, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you have to get replacement parts from S&W. Sig has had several redesigns of it's 1911 as they had some serious QC and assembly problems with their original offerings. Once again theirs is a proprietary design, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you must get parts from them. The conventional internal extractor design of the 1911 is easily field replaceable. Quality replacement parts are made by numerous companies and are easily obtained from numerous sources. Most parts for a 1911 require fitting from a specifically trained armorer. Grand parents and friends can replace extractors, they can take out old ones and can insert new ones into the gun but really supposed to be fit. Going to the range for 100 rounds it may work well but that would be finicky luck to have it just work under any hard use. Besides the slide stop I have not seen anyone just replace parts of any modern 1911 and just go on finishing a Thunder Ranch class. If you strip and dump 10 sig 226s into a box and mix up the parts each gun will work. If you do the same thing with 1911's you are going to have issues. So any differences in sig 1911's is no adding any degree of the need for trained work on the gun. The sig did have some isses early but have gotten very good reviews for the past 2 years. The external extractor works and takes away some of the need to be a "1911 aficianado" to have a competent gun. Sig 1911 parts are compatible with any other 1911 parts. I just had a wilson ambi trigger added to my GSR, no special method, no special sig only instructions, no adaptor. They just added the trigger. The downside of ANY external extractor is the fact that unlike a internal one, one must use tools to replace it. I can fit a replacement spare, toss it in my kit and IF [a good hi quality internal extractor will runs for thousands and thousands of rounds with just an occasional pull and clean] the one in the gun breaks, I can have it replaced and back running in just a minute or so with no tools whatsoever save for a twig or inkpen. A external one, forget it, time to dig up a hammer and correct punch, find a way to support it while you take out the old roll pin, then make sure you replace the pin along with all the associated bits. I can also clean a internal one much easier, remove it, clean the hole, clean the extractor and you're done and it's clean as a whistle. |
External extractors belong on 1911's like screen doors on a submarine. I had a Kimber Team Match with an external extractor.. Shot JHP's like a laser. Ball ammo would jam about once every other mag. Really pissed me off. Sent it back to Kimber for a fix. Came back so dirty, it looked like someone had been shooting black powder loads thru it. Still jammed on ball ammo. Sent it to a nationally known smith. Stll jammed. Got rid of it. Bought a like new Wilson CQB for a steal and never looked back.
|
|
Quoted:
Kimbers external extractor was a flawed design compounded by quality control problems with the parts. S&W has used it's external extractor design for decades before using it on it's 1911 pistols. While it works it is proprietary, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you have to get replacement parts from S&W. Sig has had several redesigns of it's 1911 as they had some serious QC and assembly problems with their original offerings. Once again theirs is a proprietary design, requires the firearm be taken out of service to repair and you must get parts from them. The conventional internal extractor design of the 1911 is easily field replaceable. Quality replacement parts are made by numerous companies and are easily obtained from numerous sources. |
|
Quoted: If you strip and dump 10 sig 226s into a box and mix up the parts each gun will work. If you do the same thing with 1911's you are going to have issues. You've never been around USGI 1911a1's have you? The external extractor works and takes away some of the need to be a "1911 aficianado" to have a competent gun. How? Anyone can replace and properly tune Brownings internal extractor in minutes. An external extractor hower is going to take MORE than a "1911 aficionado" to do the same. I just had a wilson ambi trigger added to my GSR, no special method, no special sig only instructions, no adaptor. They just added the trigger. Never seen a Wilson ambi trigger |
|
Quoted: Quoted: If you strip and dump 10 sig 226s into a box and mix up the parts each gun will work. If you do the same thing with 1911's you are going to have issues. You've never been around USGI 1911a1's have you? The external extractor works and takes away some of the need to be a "1911 aficianado" to have a competent gun. How? Anyone can replace and properly tune Brownings internal extractor in minutes. An external extractor hower is going to take MORE than a "1911 aficionado" to do the same. I just had a wilson ambi trigger added to my GSR, no special method, no special sig only instructions, no adaptor. They just added the trigger. Never seen a Wilson ambi trigger Ah, the ever elusive Wilson Ambi-Trigger! |