Posted: 2/15/2009 8:37:34 AM EDT
| i haven't shot any guns so maybe its a stupid question but why the 191?.all my knowledge(which is very limited) comes from reading(i know its not the same as shooting) but everywhere i see nothing but praise for this gun.so i guess my actual question is whats so good about it that youre willing to carry extra weight and limiting your capacity to 8 rounds?all answers are appreciated. |
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The new advanced technology stuff is great. 9mm is a fine round, and being able to hold 15+ sure is neat. .40 maybe even better.
But the heft of a 1911 is... satisfying. The feel of cold steel is tactile and sure. It won't flex - not even a bit. The .45 caliber round is impressive. That's a really really big hole sticking out the end of that gun. The feel of a single stack 1911 in your hand is natural and it points without thinking. I find double stack magazine guns certainly work - but there's a reason pistol grips on rifles are thinner then that. The 1911 hand fit is well thought out and probably the most "natural" out there. Perhaps the Luger and Sig 210 compete. Capacity is 8+1. If you think you'll be in a combat situation where 8+1 is an insufficent number of rounds to end the conflict, then a handgun probably wasn't the right choice. My guess is 3 rounds is all anyone practically needs. So that's 5+1 extra - just in case. The trigger pull, on even a mediocre 1911, is another world of refined when compared to most handguns out there. Yes, double action is swell because if you have a dud, you can pull the trigger again. In over 20 years of shooting double actions, I can think of maybe one time where I was in a situation to try that. And guess what, pulling the trigger again didn't make the dud become a non-dud. If it doesn't got bang with the first trigger pull, the round is bad, and being able to pull the trigger again is just a waste of time that could have been spent clearing the dud. I shot 9mm double stack pistols for 20 years. Loved 'em, still do. I always thought 1911 folks were a bit quirky in their loyalty. Until I got one for myself recently, and rapidly discovered I really like it. A lot. So much so, I don't care for the cluncky crappy trigger and fat feel of the 9mm's nearly as much as the thunderous 1911. |
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but i wanted to confirm that what you get with the 1911 is worth the smaller capacity and the increased weight. It certainly is for me, but it's hard to say what might be right for you, especially if you have limited experience with the 1911. Some people swear by Glocks, some love Sigs, some love wheel guns... some of us like 1911s. |
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you do sound like a dick.but again, i read how great the ergonomics and the trigger and the accuracy is but i wanted to confirm that what you get with the 1911 is worth the smaller capacity and the increased weight. Smaller capacity? I run 10+1 rounds in my 5inch 1911s, i dont consider that smaller capacity. I keep up with the rest of the glocks, springfields, M&Ps that I seem to shoot around. Increased weight, is a 2 sided coin. Its no where near a brick, but MANY shooters here that compete with their 1911s, actually carry the same ones they compete with on a daily basis. I know I do... |
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I see you are from Israel, so you wouldn't understand, but the 1911 carries a lot of heritage for many Americans. It is what our fathers and grand fathers carried into battle for almost a 100 years. Probably like your UZI and Galil is to your people. We take pride in our weapons also.
Another thing that people like is how the 1911 can be personalized so easily. You can quickly put grips on it that say something about YOU. Mine has pearl grips. It says I'm a pimp. 
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I see you are from Israel, so you wouldn't understand, but the 1911 carries a lot of heritage for many Americans. It is what our fathers and grand fathers carried into battle for almost a 100 years. Probably like your UZI and Galil is to your people. We take pride in our weapons also. Another thing that people like is how the 1911 can be personalized so easily. You can quickly put grips on it that say something about YOU. Mine has pearl grips. It says I'm a pimp. actually if i would choose an smg i would go with the mp5...i knew there would be answers like yours and its a legitimate reason for liking a gun in my opinion but if i will manage to get a permit which is pretty difficult in Israel im allowed to own only one handgun...yeah one handgun so im looking for the best performance. |
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I am going to sound like a dick, BUT if you have to ask "why the 1911?" You need to read shoot more.. Fixed that for you. The natural feel of the 1911 can't be described in books ... well, maybe it can, but I don't believe written word can explain how it points as naturally as my index finger. I can bring mine within an inch or two of target (at in-house ranges) without sights. Only the Grinch has a heart smaller than that margin of error. The grip is angled perfectly, the width fits my hand exactly unlike every double stack I've ever fired. |
Can you have full auto; get a Glock select fire 
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I see you are from Israel, so you wouldn't understand, but the 1911 carries a lot of heritage for many Americans. It is what our fathers and grand fathers carried into battle for almost a 100 years. Probably like your UZI and Galil is to your people. We take pride in our weapons also. Another thing that people like is how the 1911 can be personalized so easily. You can quickly put grips on it that say something about YOU. Mine has pearl grips. It says I'm a pimp. actually if i would choose an smg i would go with the mp5...i knew there would be answers like yours and its a legitimate reason for liking a gun in my opinion but if i will manage to get a permit which is pretty difficult in Israel im allowed to own only one handgun...yeah one handgun so im looking for the best performance. Honestly, if I was in that scenario, I'd get a Glock. I've seen enough torture tests of Glocks and they seem like the best bet for a scenario where back-up-guns, spare parts and gun smiths are few and far between. Even the few times I have heard of something breaking on a Glock (trigger pin, frame rail) the Glock still fired. It's sort of like comparing a Chevy Corvette (A classic american high performance car) to a Toyota car. A toyota will keep on going without any repair, but will always be "just a toyota", while the corvette needs regular tune ups, but it's a pussy magnet 'vette!
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Honestly, if I was in that scenario, I'd get a Glock. I've seen enough torture tests of Glocks and they seem like the best bet for a scenario where back-up-guns, spare parts and gun smiths are few and far between. Even the few times I have heard of something breaking on a Glock (trigger pin, frame rail) the Glock still fired. It's sort of like comparing a Chevy Corvette (A classic american high performance car) to a Toyota car. A toyota will keep on going without any repair, but will always be "just a toyota", while the corvette needs regular tune ups, but it's a pussy magnet 'vette!
Internet perpetuated myth based on Glock's "perfection" marketing IMO. A good quality 1911 by a reputable manufacturer will be every bit as reliable and breakage-free as one of Glock's products. I run a lot of rounds through 1911s and I own quite a few Glocks and have put them through their paces as well. Glock isn't quite as infallible as their internet reputation would lead you to believe. And 1911s are quite reliable. There's been plenty of 1911 torture tests as well. See Pat Sweeney's series of books. To the OP: Go with whatever you'd like that feels good in your hand. As JJ pointed out, get out there and shoot them if you can. It's much better research than reading. Oh - and SGB isn't a dick. He was being humorous, but it probably didn't translate well. He's good people. |
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Honestly, if I was in that scenario, I'd get a Glock. I've seen enough torture tests of Glocks and they seem like the best bet for a scenario where back-up-guns, spare parts and gun smiths are few and far between. Even the few times I have heard of something breaking on a Glock (trigger pin, frame rail) the Glock still fired. It's sort of like comparing a Chevy Corvette (A classic american high performance car) to a Toyota car. A toyota will keep on going without any repair, but will always be "just a toyota", while the corvette needs regular tune ups, but it's a pussy magnet 'vette!
Internet perpetuated myth based on Glock's "perfection" marketing IMO. A good quality 1911 by a reputable manufacturer will be every bit as reliable and breakage-free as one of Glock's products. I run a lot of rounds through 1911s and I own quite a few Glocks and have put them through their paces as well. Glock isn't quite as infallible as their internet reputation would lead you to believe. And 1911s are quite reliable. There's been plenty of 1911 torture tests as well. See Pat Sweeney's series of books. To the OP: Go with whatever you'd like that feels good in your hand. As JJ pointed out, get out there and shoot them if you can. It's much better research than reading. Oh - and SGB isn't a dick. He was being humorous, but it probably didn't translate well. He's good people. yeah i know shooting is the best research i can do but i don't have the opportunity to do so i am planing on shooting the guns i consider buying before i actually do so and my response to SGB was also humorous. |
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yeah i know shooting is the best research i can do but i don't have the opportunity to do so i am planing on shooting the guns i consider buying before i actually do so and my response to SGB was also humorous. Fair enough. To your original question, I have not found a better package for the .45acp cartridge than the M1911. In 9mm, there are tons of great choices in handguns, like Glocks, H&K, Beretta, etc. But for 45, I do believe that the M1911 is the best pistol available. The other choices tend to be less ergonomic due to their higher capacity magazines and larger grips, more complex in small parts, and have less-desirable triggers. A good user with a 1911 can be amazingly fast and accurate. Yes, that can be said for a skilled practitioner with any platform, but I believe that the 1911's design (ergonomics and trigger) lend itself to fast, accurate shooting. Trigger movement is minimal on the M1911 compared to any other design. A bonus to that is that the platform itself sends out a fairly serious chunk of lead in the .45 cartridge. I won't comment on reliability and durability as that has been proven over almost a century of use. And based on my own experience, I have no doubts in the longevity and reliability of the platform. It is the first gun I would (and do) turn to when I need a pistol. My opinion is that if you're considering a pistol in 45, you should give the M1911 a serious consideration. It's the only platform that I've found that works well with this cartridge. That's just my opinion and what I've found works for me. I've tried other brands in 45 but have never been satisfied. If you're interested in 9mm, there are tons of other choices out there that I would recommend before I recommended a M1911 in 9mm. I would strongly consider a modern, double-stack polymer for that application. So to me, the decision comes down to the cartridge itself. If what you really want is a 45, I believe that the M1911 is the choice. If it's a different caliber, I would look elsewhere. |
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I was under the impression that the "dick" thing was going on between chromeluv and Harakiri. I fail to see where my post was "dickish" My warning however was DEAD SERIOUS .............. insults and attitudes are not acceptable behavior here. If it continues the thread will be locked and a timeout will be forthcoming. |
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I was under the impression that the "dick" thing was going on between chromeluv and Harakiri. I fail to see where my post was "dickish" My warning however was DEAD SERIOUS .............. insults and attitudes are not acceptable behavior here. If it continues the thread will be locked and a timeout will be forthcoming. yeah sorry,looked at the comment and assumed that's the persons nick i meant to say chromeluv.and my response was just a joke it wasn't supposed to look like an insult... |
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There is nothing on par with the 1911 trigger out there. Nothing.
That coupled with the incredible pointability of the gun, the excellent performance of the .45 acp round and the manner in which a full steel frame softens recoil make it an exceptional pistol. The only downside is the level of gunsmithing that goes into building one correctly and making the occasional repair. If I could only own one pistol, I would struggle with the choice of a 1911 from that perspective. There is something to be said for "plug and play" parts on a handgun. |
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Shooting is believing. I've shot a few glocks, 2 HKS, a sig, a couple taurus', and 2 1911s.
A colt and a kimber. I'll be buying one of the 2 1911s in the next week or 2. Nothing for me shot as clean. Trigger, weight, grips. Everything felt far better than the others!! |
| Why the 1911? The 1911 have served so many wars and battles and it's design has proven it self and challenge time. The 1911 emits beauty, patriotism, pride and respect any where you go. For me the 1911 is the perfect handgun. You should stop reading about it and pick one up and shoot it and you will understand first hand why it is so loved. |
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I was AR15 crazy. Then I bought a Wilson CQB. End of AR15 craze..... Its kind of like sleeping with the best porn star in the world then going to Rosie O Donnell and thinking you can still perform. Yep - been there, done that. Wish I had the spare $$ to get another. |
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Actually,I didnt know you guys are limited to one handgun. Sounds silly. Especially in your area. If I was limited to 1 handgun, in your area of the world it would be a Glock 17.
Which says alot. Look at my screen name.Parts should be available easily over there. And I'm sure 9mm ammo is easier to come by.In my opinion weight and capacity are fine on a 1911. Only in .45 tho. In my experience the 1911 pattern guns are less reliable with the shorter 9mm/.40 rounds. |
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The 1911 has 98 years of combat use in every part of the world. The 1911 is as accurate as the shooter is skilled. It can be taken apart and put back together quickly for cleaning or repair if needed. I carried one in the Army for 21 years and was an armourer for part of that time. I replaced more parts on M16s than I ever did on a 1911. No matter what environment I have used the 1911 it has always worked. From the arctic to the desert and everywhere in between. I have 28 pistols, 10 of them are 1911s in various configurations. I do have a glock, browning,and various others. All of them work and shoot great. I would use any of my pistols in a gunfight. The one I trust the most and trust my life with all the time is my 1911.
RLTW |
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i wanted to confirm that what you get with the 1911 is worth the smaller capacity and the increased weight. I can put rounds on target with a 1911 more reliably, more accurately, faster, and with better shot placement than I can with other firearms. I have others in the safe, but the 1911 is the one I carry. I carried a 1911A1 in the Army, trained with it and it was a natural choice for me for out of the Army. I admit trying the Browning HP-35 for a few years, but never got as good with it as I was with the 1911, an order of magnitude difference. Oh, and my 10mm is 9+1, which is a lot of ammo unless you spray and pray. Ultimately, the firearm you carry and depend on for your life is a very personal decision that you must make for yourself. My reasons won't be yours. ETA: The weight isn't an issue if you have a proper carry rig. With mine, I don't notice the weight at all. It's just like a part of my body. Also, my 10mm is pretty darned reliable - only one stoppage ever and that was an ammo problem. 
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Sitting here reading this, immediate response was....
Nothing replaces real time behind a trigger to determine what fits you. I have owned it all. Sig, Glock, HK, 1911, Walther, 2011, etc etc etc. Over the years I have owned over 30 handguns and that's been trimmed down to the 6 I own today. HK P30 Springfield TRP .45 Nighthawk T3 .45 HK P7M13 STI Edge 2011 .40 STI Ranger II (recently ordered) Notice a pattern? A 1911 frame and weapon has been around for so long and been successful for..... a reason. It has seen significant revision in parts technology and design over the last 10 years but the core weapon itself is what makes it such a great firearm. There is no another weapon that fits my hand as well...then a high cut 1911 single stack frame. The only thing that even remotely comes close in "pointability" (ability to aim rapidly and accurately) and fit is the HK P7 for me. The HK P30 and HK45 came really close but not the same. Were I in your shoes and could only choose one...it would be something in the 1911 weapon family and platform. 10 rounds mags preferred but 8 rounders minimum. I am no gun smith by any stretch but my 1911s and 2011s have run flawless. I have learned to strip them down far beyond what I would normally be comfortable with removing the mystery and mystique. For having been designed in the early 1900s and still kickin strong...its pretty amazing. |
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I have posted before that I tried everything to disprove the 1911 and tried my damnest not to get one. Tried all kinds of whees gun & caibers then switched to Gocks and began this journey in the late 70s.
Now for defense only will use the 1911, however for deer hunting have been playing with a S&W 460. |
| I have owned 4 1911's from kimber,colt,RIA, para, and am down to 2. I have my Colt left and RIA. i used my ria to learn how to work on them and now it is great to shoot. in my own opinion if you buy any true 1911 you will be happy with it and with a little bit of know how you can fix it your self or modify them very easily with the help of the internet or books. Can't beat them for reliabilty. |