Posted: 1/10/2009 5:40:25 PM EDT
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I just finished working on a Kimber fist series, ie: series 70 style that had worked just fine. I didn't mess with any of the ignition parts, they went out and into a box and sat there until I rebuilt it. All I did was cosmetic, dehorn, melt the frame and slide, bevel the slide bottom, serrate the rear of the slide/ejector/frame, 20 LPI hand checker the front strap, high cut the underside of the front strap, 30LPI checked the underside of the trigger guard, install Heine sights, bevel the mag well, and install a new main spring housing then refinish in a combination of duracoat Magpul FDE and Norrells black. Oh, and I installed a new C&S long flat trigger which did take some fitting on the trigger itself.
so I get it all back together, it gets baked and looks great. So then I get to function testing it and the problems start. I'll list the issues: Hammer follow through intermittently, especially from a dropped slide to half cock Hammer falls when trigger is pulled at half cock Grip safety was not functioning, the hammer would fall with the grip safety not engaged So I grab my other 1911 and start swapping parts, first the sear and disconector. I swap them out, this fixes my grip safety issue, but I am still having hammer follow through. I switch out the hammer next, now I have traded the sear, disconector, and hammer from one functional pistol to the Kimber. Hammer still follows and drops from half cock when the trigger is pulled. Grip safety now working fine. I don't know what to do now. I'm very confused. What do I do now? I have a new EGW sear in my cart on Brownells, should I pull the trigger and buy a brand new sear? Anyone have any ideas? This sucks, I spent a ton of time and money on this gun and was going to go shoot it tomorrow and now I can't for the life of me figure out what the problem is.  Help
Steve |
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On a standard (non-Swartz/no FP block) 1911, the grip safety functions soley on restricting trigger travel, so changing out hammer, sear, or disconnector should *not* have any effect on grip safety function. That you can get it to work by swapping out FCG parts therefore doesn't make sense from a technical standpoint, indicating that something else may be very wrong.
How familiar are you with the inner workings of the 1911 platform (i.e., are you experienced with repeated detail strip and reassembly)? Could you have possibly boogered up the sear spring or something else during reassembly (and subsequently not noticed it, if you were concetrating on other parts)? ETA - Now that I started thinking about it, I seem to recall noticing some similar problems when I first added a new (el-cheapo) trigger to my S70 repro. It was definitely a trigger issue, as fitting a WC trigger alleviated all issues. Taught me again, "buy once = cry once". Double check all fit and operation of your new trigger. It may be helpful to check fit and travel of the trigger alone, with sear & disconnector added, and then finally fully-assembled agian, with hammer and sear spring in place. |
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On a standard (non-Swartz/no FP block) 1911, the grip safety functions soley on restricting trigger travel, so changing out hammer, sear, or disconnector should *not* have any effect on grip safety function. That you can get it to work by swapping out FCG parts therefore doesn't make sense from a technical standpoint, indicating that something else may be very wrong. How familiar are you with the inner workings of the 1911 platform (i.e., are you experienced with repeated detail strip and reassembly)? Could you have possibly boogered up the sear spring or something else during reassembly (and subsequently not noticed it, if you were concetrating on other parts)? I'm far from an expert on the 1911, however I do know what the parts do and where they go. I've detail stripped verious 1911's more times than I can count and this is the first problem I have ever encountered. The grip safety issue is just baffling to me for the reason you just stated. It shouldn't matter that the sear was replaced but it did. I don't know why it happened. |
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On a standard (non-Swartz/no FP block) 1911, the grip safety functions soley on restricting trigger travel, so changing out hammer, sear, or disconnector should *not* have any effect on grip safety function. That you can get it to work by swapping out FCG parts therefore doesn't make sense from a technical standpoint, indicating that something else may be very wrong. How familiar are you with the inner workings of the 1911 platform (i.e., are you experienced with repeated detail strip and reassembly)? Could you have possibly boogered up the sear spring or something else during reassembly (and subsequently not noticed it, if you were concetrating on other parts)? ETA - Now that I started thinking about it, I seem to recall noticing some similar problems when I first added a new (el-cheapo) trigger to my S70 repro. It was definitely a trigger issue, as fitting a WC trigger alleviated all issues. Taught me again, "buy once = cry once". Double check all fit and operation of your new trigger. It may be helpful to check fit and travel of the trigger alone, with sear & disconnector added, and then finally fully-assembled agian, with hammer and sear spring in place. Maybe I am wrong here, but I was under the impression Cylinder and Slide were of good quality and not "el cheapo" parts as you put it. |
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Maybe I am wrong here, but I was under the impression Cylinder and Slide were of good quality and not "el cheapo" parts as you put it. Yes, I was just relating my experience. I used some cheapo "gun show special" trigger initially in my S70, and the improper resulting fit caused issues. C&S are good parts - my point was just that a "bad" trigger could be one thing to look at in the causation chain. Whether that be from a bad, out-of-spec part, or from a good-quality but damaged trigger (like perhaps a bent bow). |
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Maybe I am wrong here, but I was under the impression Cylinder and Slide were of good quality and not "el cheapo" parts as you put it. Yes, I was just relating my experience. I used some cheapo "gun show special" trigger initially in my S70, and the improper resulting fit caused issues. C&S are good parts - my point was just that a "bad" trigger could be one thing to look at in the causation chain. Whether that be from a bad, out-of-spec part, or from a good-quality but damaged trigger (like perhaps a bent bow). Would a bent bow do this? I can't see that happening to this but I'm running out of ideas here and the only new part in the ignition system is the trigger and the main spring housing itself. The spring and pins came off the existing gun. Steve |
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Maybe I am wrong here, but I was under the impression Cylinder and Slide were of good quality and not "el cheapo" parts as you put it. Yes, I was just relating my experience. I used some cheapo "gun show special" trigger initially in my S70, and the improper resulting fit caused issues. C&S are good parts - my point was just that a "bad" trigger could be one thing to look at in the causation chain. Whether that be from a bad, out-of-spec part, or from a good-quality but damaged trigger (like perhaps a bent bow). Would a bent bow do this? I can't see that happening to this but I'm running out of ideas here and the only new part in the ignition system is the trigger and the main spring housing itself. The spring and pins came off the existing gun. Steve Not the half-cock thing, AFAIK. (The follow-through is possible, since the trigger could be re-tripping the sear. This is the kind of problem I was having way back when I did the first trigger in my S70-repro.) ETA - See pistolwretch's post below on half-cock. |
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Maybe I am wrong here, but I was under the impression Cylinder and Slide were of good quality and not "el cheapo" parts as you put it. Yes, I was just relating my experience. I used some cheapo "gun show special" trigger initially in my S70, and the improper resulting fit caused issues. C&S are good parts - my point was just that a "bad" trigger could be one thing to look at in the causation chain. Whether that be from a bad, out-of-spec part, or from a good-quality but damaged trigger (like perhaps a bent bow). Would a bent bow do this? I can't see that happening to this but I'm running out of ideas here and the only new part in the ignition system is the trigger and the main spring housing itself. The spring and pins came off the existing gun. Steve Not the half-cock thing, AFAIK. (The follow-through is possible, since the trigger could be re-tripping the sear. This is the kind of problem I was having way back when I did the first trigger in my S70-repro.) Yeah, fuck it, looks like new parts. I bent the spring, and now it doesn't follow, but the trigger engages when the grip safety isn't engaged again when I pull the trigger really hard again as well as dropping from the half cock. I'm spent... I'm going to buy a new sear spring and sear and hope that fixes it. Maybe brand new quality parts will work better.  With all the time and money I put into this project... what's another 25 bucks. 
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Sounds like the new trigger is longer than the original.
Insufficient pre-travel is preventing the sear from fully engaging the half-cock notch. The cure is to remove material from the sear feet where they contact the disconnector. I'd initially remove .010" and then .005" incrementally. |
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Sounds like the new trigger is longer than the original. Insufficient pre-travel is preventing the sear from fully engaging the half-cock notch. The cure is to remove material from the sear feet where they contact the disconnector. I'd initially remove .010" and then .005" incrementally. I'll try this. Thanks! I love your work, I hope my work someday looks half as good as your guns. Steve |
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Sounds like the new trigger is longer than the original. Insufficient pre-travel is preventing the sear from fully engaging the half-cock notch. The cure is to remove material from the sear feet where they contact the disconnector. I'd initially remove .010" and then .005" incrementally. Makes sense. |
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If Im reading right it sounds like the back of the trigger stirrup is too long and tall in the back. Its holding the sear down and catching on the bottom radius of the grip safety and "bypassing" it. This would make sense. My old trigger was 
New trigger 
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