Posted: 7/17/2008 8:38:41 PM EDT
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My friend Rich at Colt sent me an email a few days ago about the new Colt pistol coming out in (I believe) August. Another upgraded Colt classic is brought back in 2008 with the return of the Model O8011XSE; the Colt Combat Elite. Once again, Colt’s Manufacturing Company LLC returns to its roots. Where quality and workmanship are demanded, Colt has once again met and exceeded the expectations of its customers. With new and exciting features this iconic legend is styled for the combat-style match shooter. A great addition to any collection or avid shooting enthusiast, new features for 2008 bring rosewood grips, a Smith & Alexander upswept beavertail grip safety, Colt single side tactical safety, and other standard features of the XSE Series. Where history meets Modern Era, the heart and soul of Colt’s quality is still derived from its forged stainless steel frame and forged carbon steel slide. With the helping of a time honored tradition of American Craftsmanship, once again, Quality Makes It A Colt. In today’s world of polymers, investment castings, short cuts, time & cost savings, Colt continues to ask, “Show Me Your Forging”. Features: • Front & Rear Slide Serrations • White Dot Carry Sights • Skeletonized 3-Hole Trigger • Combat Hammer with Elongated Slot • Enhanced Tolerances • 8 + 1 Capacity • Rosewood Grips • Smith & Alexander Upswept Beavertail Safety • ‘New’ Colt Single Side Tactical Thumb Safety • Two-Tone Finish • Chambered in .45 ACP http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/Hunter1911/newcombatelite.jpg |
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All we own are Colt 1911's. I like the product. But, Colt really needs to come up with something new. What they have offered on this gun, and all the recent offerings, is nothing new. They could start by offering front strap checkering on higher end models. Maybe do a railed gun. The pisser is they aren't doing anything that hasn't already been done by Colt, and everyone else. They just keep repackaging the same old ideas in new boxes. I'm on a bit of a rant, but I haven't bought a new Colt in years because they haven't offered anything new. It seems to me they cater to the collector market, which, after all the baby boomers use the retirement plans to pay for $5 / gal gas, will no longer exist. I think they need to look at providing products that younger generations will enjoy. RANT OFF Looks like a well made Colt. |
But Ray, It finally has a NORMAL grip safety and a SINGLE sided thumb safety. That is a huge improvement in itself 
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I like my Government Models simple. I shy away from the bells and whistles that many prefer such as a light rail. There is really only so much that can be done to a "1911" before it becomes something different. I am hoping Colt will send me one to test and I will forum my opinion then. I like the looks but it has a modern look to me that I am warming up to. |
I disagree. I think Colt needs to keep it old school and conservative. This gun is as far as Colt should stretch, IMO. Every single time Colt's tries something new they utterly jack it up. Keeping with the simple Series 80 NRM and Series 70 NRM full size guns and commanders is as far as they should go. Now, if they wanna play with rails ( which I personally do not like at all ) then adding Dawson rails in the custom shop is not a bad idea. Extended safeties and such, I think are also way overblown. I have a couple of exceptions like the Ed brown mag release and the Wilson Bulletproof slide stop. When Colt keeps it simple, their guns rock...but look at the XSE....the core gun is good, no doubt, but the beavertail work was PATHETIC. At least they have it right on this gun. Let's hope Colt keeps up with a trend of simple, good quality, user grade/duty grade guns. |
I agree. But Colt does needs to increase it's pistol production capacity. |
If this is the best Colt can do, we need to reconsider how much respect they deserve. My 10 yo can crank out products with equal quality and with more imagination than this. Seriously, you feel this gun is at Colt's limit of ability? This gun is an elementary example of a "modern" 1911. I suppose if your expectations are low, then you will never be disappointed. I never lower my expectations and hope someday Colt sacks up and produces NEW guns. |
Why can't Colt offer the simple classic guns and something that younger shooters are actually interested in? Why should Colt limit itself? Rails aren't something you play with. If some of the best manufacturers in the industry can do it, then so should Colt be able to offer this. If they did offer 1 or 2 railed guns, it won't kill the classic Colt. It would bring new shooters to look at Colt's. The pistol production is not a problem. Colt handguns are everywhere in abundance. The AR's are in short supply. |
It's the niche they are going after, all the other makers are doing everything else and the market is completely saturated with bling/scribed/scalloped/diamond/grooved/ etc. 1911s and all cut corners on the quality and materials of their parts to compete against each other. A WELL MADE [hear that COLT???] reasonably priced quality part 1911 without needless bling will sell perfectly fine if it's not price gouged by the dealers. I can see the same cookie cutter "custom" [ha ha] 1911s from several makers any day of the week under glass, if they sell they are replaced by another "custom" that looks exactly like the one sold. Make SURE the quality is there and the price fair and Colt would sell every one they could make, any additional work would make smiths happy. Colt has done well with it's niche 1911s [WWI, WWII, S70, etc.] Colts are priced UNDER the typical "custom" [SA, K, and the like] 1911 and the parts tend to be of higher quality and of better materials tho the cookie cutter slap on "custom" parts and some programmed milling cuts are missing. My most costly 1911 is not a Colt, it's a Briley, but I can still shoot my cheapass M1991 with a few bucks of work and parts better and I LOVE the traditional look of it. |
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Looks very nice. I look forward to being able to order them. I too am curious to know if it is a 70 series. Im with the others, I'd let the other companies fight it out for the market of railed and extra featured guns. Springfield, Kimber and others have a line up of guns that are, in my opinion, way too long. Especially when at any given time you may have to wait months to get 3/4 of the pistols they offer. On top of this, the only difference between most of them is a finish, a set of sights, or whatever. Not knocking them really, but it is what it is. I'd like to see some serrations on the front strap, and hope the gun is a 70's series. Either way I think it will be a winner for them and us. |
It really is worth quite a bit[the name]. It is one of the most recognizable TradeMarks/names recognizable in Americana(as is Smith and Wesson). |
Like SA and Kimber don't ask $$$ for their MIM filled "premuim" lines.  Don't follow 1911 prices much do you? Anything higher then their [SA and Kimber] entry line 1911s and you're around 1K and over. |
Name me some typical factory makers selling 1911s that are not filled with MIM parts? I believe Colt has one or two MIM parts tops. It's funny, people pay a premium for some fish scales and plastic grips that have divots in them, I really don't see the big deal in that or how it makes the pistol better. I WOULD like to see Colt offer a line that had quality nite sights already installed, I believe that is a worthwhile enhancement people would pay for. |
But then that starts the MIM debate all over again................fuck, who cares. I'm sure a whole bunch o' loyal Colt fans 'll buy some of these......and the rest of us 'll just be happy with our non-Colt 1911s............that still run like champs....... 
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And as I've said before, shoot what you're happy with. Choice is a good thing. |
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Where were you guys three weeks ago? I guess I posted in the wrong place... www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=28&t=60372 |
Not true at all. The charm/curse of Colt is that they use that quaint, aging tooling which is why they are known for their ghastly cosmetic issues. Between the old tooling and aging workforce (and true or false, a few might argue a secondary concern with respect to the civillian handgun market), Colt produces only so many firearms. I don't know what you mean by "everywhere" and in abundance, but in my city there is one and only one store that stocks new Colts. If you don't like what they have you either go elsewhere (online) or you can try for a special order. Most other stores will not even discuss the business based on the perceived hassle. I certainly wouldn't consider a new Colt to be anything like hen's teeth, but "everywhere in abundance" should only be reserved for producers such as Springfield and Kimber... those manufacturers who actually are inside every counter. As for those who want to see better, newer things from Colt, see above. Old workforce plus old tooling = No checkering, etc. That requires a CNC operation, something that Colt hasn't seen fit to do for whatever reasons they have. |
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Most all the gun stores in the Houston area have plenty of Colts. The local gun shows are overflowing with them. This pistol looks to be a step in the right direction. I would like to see a checkered front strap and night sites. Colt really should consider rails (I don't like them, but many do). And, I firmly believe that if they came out with a factory Bobtailed LW CDR, they would be back logged with orders for yrs. ranburr |
No, I don't feel that this 1911 is the limit of Colt's ability....not even close...if something has been done to a 1911 you can be rest assured that the development folks have done it. Ever seen the developmental work on the AR-15? There is hardly a thing that is done today on an AR15 the Colt didn't already do in the 1960s and early 1970s. What I do feel is that Colt's should ABSOLUTELY limit what they do and keep it simple. Colt can do hi end, artistic custom guns and do them well....they can do standard guns and do them well.....when they start trying to be tacticool.....that's when they completely screw the pooch. Look at the crappy XSE. It is insane, the difference between a Series 70 Repro and an XSE. The Series 70s rock.....the XSE just plain sucks as far as exterior design, fit and finish goes. I am not a fan of the new Delta Elite, either. The one thing you can be guaranteed of with Colt is this....they either get it right on the money......or they tank. There is no inbetween. |
I agree. And some people choose to stir shit.
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What would one consider new in the 1911 world anyway? Grinding out "SIS" in the rear slide ser and calling it the new whiz bang 1911? All the "New" 1911's are still lipstick on the same ole 1911.. If you want new, how about the New Agent with the trench sight? Colt was first with the Officer, CCO, 10mm, Commander, light weights, Defender. Collecting org mil 1911's really kicked in and the realy nice copies got to 5 figures, Colt did the 1911 repo. People ate them up! Then people started saying "I wish this was a 70 ser" and then Colt put that out. Same with 38 Super. And now, Combat Elites on Gunbroker and other auctions are going through the roof. So there in an interest, so Colt wants to provide for those that want them. So it sounds to me like Colt has worked to find their niche. So really, what have the others given you? SA was really the first to give us light rails. Smith gave us Scandium but really that is just a light weight. Either Clark or C&S gave us the melt job. Para, the king of the double stack. What has Kimber given us that really wasn't just marketing? Doesn't mean they don't build great 1911's, but I don't buy the Colt should be building something new like the other guys line. |
I agree. I have had many and prefer my two fairly recient commanders.No flash, I thought I always needed.... but these are what I always needed. I truly like them as is and feel lucky to have a pair of good ones. No pun intended. I admit one has been to Novaks [the slide] for sights- love em, and a fp. stop, [its no better]. If Colts can maintain quality and the current mentality of product, I see success for them. I have spent a lot of cash on pistols over the years. The money spent on my Commanders was money well spent. As they say, "I'm done". As for the most recient offering, I am glad it has a 'better" single thumb safety and is not garnished. I hope it exudes the quality we do see with better consistancy. |
And for the most part, it seems that Colt is doing it for less than its competitors! Go out and price two equivalent pistols: a new Colt Agent and a Kimber Ultra RCP II: You'll see that the Colt offering is several hundred dollars less. Colt: www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=103488  Kimber: www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=103488  ..and yes, I drank the koolaid  ...That Colt came home to join 4 other Colt 1911s, one Remington Rand and a Kimber |
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plupsmack you do have a point about the old Bridgeport milling machines and ageing workforce. Colt saw there could be a problem and has begun to set up CNC machinery in their factory. I first learned of this when I met General Keys at the SHOT show. He invited me back to the factory to check out their new set up and it looks like mid August the trip will take place. A part of me hated the fact they were going to CNC machinery only because I believe the old ways is what gave the Colt pistol it's soul but like the good General told me yopu have to keep up with the times to stay in the game. With the lack of craftsmen and craftswomen to take the place of the current ones that are retiring they had to do something. I believe this was a wise move and will alloy Colt to introduce even more models and maybe another double action revolver. Great post FreeAmerican, I agree totally. Nice looking New Agent GunnyG, I wrote an article for the m1911.org ezine testing the New Agent shortly after it came out. It was a great little pistol, so much so I made arrangments to keep it and she is still 100%. |
I think my point was made in my original post, both those things were a blessing and a curse (I would argue more of the latter). If Colt is going with CNC then it will help them, particularly with product consistency. |
I stand by my statement: The New Agent's equivalent is the RCP and the Colt is significantly less expensive. The Colt Defender is closest to being equivalent to the Kimber Ultra Carry II. I really got the New Agent for daily concealed carry. I like the small, single side thumb safety. Not much to get snagged on draw or moved during carriage. The same principle applies to the magazine release. Sights? Who needs sights? Actually, the gutter sight is milled into the New Agent's slide (just like on the RCP, and my old Colt .25) and does just fine. Grip safety: Yes, after 100 rds of 230 gr ball the first day out, I had a wear spot in the web between my thumb and finger...oh well...other than practice (another 250 rds later, it's done sparingly now, with a gloved hand except for the trigger finger). It's not like I can't use any of my other 1911's for extended range sessions. And if I come out of a self defense shooting, and the worst that has happened to me is another wear spot, I'll be happy! I did change the composite MSH out, in favor of an aluminum MSH from VZ grips. I had to loktite the grip screws, which were loosening every 100 rds, or so. Other than satisfying my preference for the MSH, I don't see any need to change anything else. It's been good to go, out of the box. |
Other than the channel sight and the 3" bbl, the CNA and the RCP don't seem to have much in common. The CNA seems like a Defender with a gutter on the top. Whats different about the Defender and New Agent? I don't see the UCII as equivilant to the Defender since (I'll be nice and not just say what I really think of the Defenders I've seen and shot) they don't have the ramped barrel, extended mag release, safety, grip safety etc... Personally, I'm not a fan of lots of the bells and whistles. I like the extended mag release...its what, 10% longer? I didn't even know it was extended until I noticed I had to stretch a bit to drop the mag on my Colt. The extended safety isn't going to snag on the draw, or get moved with a good holster...the big reason I don't do Ambi...but the extension give much better purchase with cold or wet hands. I've carried the Kimber for a few years now and can say that the features it has are must haves(for me). I do wish it had night sites, but that applies to all the guns mentioned. I guess my point is that Colts with fewer features are compared to all other makers with more features then called less expensive it seems. If you're one of the folks that doesn't need or want the extras, it would only make sense to compare models without them. |
Many of the smaller parts are made of better materials, that adds to the price tho less cosmetic bling is added. The ONLY reason MIM is used in firearms is because of cost savings for manufacturers. Some parts are perfectly fine being made with them, others, I'm less then impressed with it. |
Without getting into the MIM debate...again... does it really matter? I'm talking about choosing Brand X's $1100 model to compare a Colt to instead of Brand X's $750 model. Both models have the same MIM parts, so why use the $1100 one to prove the Colt is less expensive? I'm not trying to prove or disprove anyone's argument so much, as to find out what it is that makes the model comparison. I don't know anything about the Colt past the picture, what is different about it compared to the Defender except that it doesn't have sights? |
Because the machining of the parts costs a bit more in the Colt at that point and makes the cost a wash. There are things I really wish Colt would do, cutting the parts cost by using MIM ain't one of them. Things I'd like to see. Night sights. Metal treatment offered like Glocks tennifer. Consistant machining. Better QC. Some are great, some are a damn shame. Night sights.............. |
