Posted: 1/28/2008 2:31:37 PM EDT
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I was at the range for our monthly practical police competition and had a malfunction with my GSR. Thankfully, it turned out to be the loads, rather than the gun itself. My friend who is teaching me how to load had just begun using a new powder loaded them a little too light. Symptoms include failure to extract: the slide gets caught open on the spent brass. My friend began pulling the bullets but quickly tired and decided to fire and manually cycle the bullets. I'm no expert, but can I purchase a decreased weight mainspring for my gun that would cycle these rounds? |
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Possibly. There are lightweight springs for target loads. Nevertheless the load might be too light. My first batch was a dismal failure: 225gr LRN bullet propelled by 3.5 grains of Bullseye... way underpowered. Shot like .38 in a 4" L-frame, and my Wilson Combat never hiccuped.  that's 4" barrel with a 22# spring (granted it was up for replacement, IMO but still).Make sure the loads are built up to starting specs as a minimum, then make sure it's not another ammo problem (OALs for example), then make sure there is no weapon issue. If EVERYTHING is a green light, THEN I would consider a lower powered recoil spring. |
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He used either 2.9 instead of 3.9 or 2.5 instead of 3.5 of bullseye with a semi-wadcutter. I can find out exactly which it was when he gets off work. I know it's one of the two. Both firearms experienced exactly the same symptoms so it's not a weapons issue. My friend has been reloading for quite a while now but I'll ask his father (much more experience) if the rounds are safe to manually cycle. If he gives the green, what lb. spring would be a good choice? |
man, that loading brings back a lot of memories in loading the 1911. 25+ years ago I started loading the 45ACP. I loaded a ton of ammo with 6.0 grains for 230 grain hard cast lead. 6.6 for ball. Most younger folks don't use unique. Sadly, I don't load 45ACP anymore. to expensive. I have 3 1911's and all are 9mm. Much cheaper to shoot and reload!!! |
12 LBS for light loads. 16 LBS for standard loads. 4 grains of bullseye will malfunction with a 16 LB spring. You need more powder. |
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I use 5.8 grains of Unique with a 230 grain FMJ. If I remember right max is somewhere around 6.4 grains. |
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I mean no offense to you or your friend, but I would stop shooting other people's reloads immediately. If he isn't sure what powder charge he put in those loads, it could just as easily have been an overcharge and you could be looking for the pieces of your gun and possibly the rest of your fingers. Get a reloading manual and read it thoroughly. You can also go online and get your recipes for handloads from reputable sources. |
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Just a quick note. I reloaded the rounds myself. The load workup was done by my friend who had just switched powders. This was the first batch of .45 with the new powder. He had previously done 9mm without a hitch. I cant say how or where the error occurred as to the powder measurement but I'm trusting that if an amount ever sounded dangerous, he would have double checked it before going ahead. I'm grateful that I only loaded 150 for the competition while he loaded about 300 before realizing the mistake. I'd like to get into reloading in the future but time, space, and money are at a premium right now. My friend has been reloading for years and allows me to buy smaller amounts of product and has begun to teach me the very basics of his press. Hopefully in the future the mistakes will be few and far between... and just as benign. The loads were done at 2.9. My friend thinks that we should manually cycle them at opposed to a different spring due to the fact a lighter spring will take energy away from the powder. He said they might work just fine on a warmer day. Anyway, my questions are answered. Thanks for all the info. |
Your friend has a lot to learn. A load that is too light can be just as dangerous if not more so than a load that is too heavy. Many a gun has been trashed from a squib load. |
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We all have a lot to learn Jeff, that's why we're here. So you think that a squib is likely? Why? All of the rounds fired left the barrel with energy... they were all loaded to the same specs (albeit wrong) and a total of ten rounds were fired in two 1911's. If a reduced power spring would make a squib any more likely, could you please explain to me how and why? My friend didn't elaborate and all I can guess is that it has something to do with Newton's third law. |
Next time load a "test" batch of 20 to try out. That way if there is a problem only 20 are messed up. By the way I use 4.5 grain of clay pushing 200 grain flat nose flat base it work wonders. |
I just don't want you guys to get hurt that's all. I've seen too many guns blown up by people not paying attention when reloading. I would try a 12 or 14 pound spring and see what happens. Good advice about only running 20 or 30 rounds for a new load, also a chronograph is a very valuable tool for reloading. |
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Actually I have a load at 3.8gr of Bullseye under a 200gr SWC that's a tack driver, but I can only shoot it with a very worn recoil spring. There's no way my 18.5lb regular spring will cycle that load so I don't load it very often. 5.3gr of 231 under the same bullet gives the same accuracy and will cycle very well with heavier springs. |
I am very new to reloading, but the "squib likelihood danger" comes from working loads that are below the minimum starting load. One such underpowered load may fire and even cycle reliably through your gun, but they may not with a .45 with a barrel .75" longer or shorter. Thus the min starting load by my understanding is the lowest load that will safely fire through the various platforms configured to the caliber. Thus, the min starting load should be observed with as much seriousness as the maximum load. The spring would have nothing to do with a squib though, and I don't believe anybody was trying to state that. I think the end result is that needing to hand cycle the loads mid shoot in the field is a bad place to be in. Either the load should be clearly understood beforehand (in which case a lighter spring would have been anticipated and brought as necessary), or the loads weren't clear and the shooting should stop due to impropely set up equipment and/or ammunition. |
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I appreciate the concern. I don't think anyone wants to see someone get hurt in this situation. If there's even a remote possibility of human injury or hardware damage with these rounds I wont shoot them.
Pulp, your comment leads me to this question: Is there such a thing as a diagram stating the min. starting load for my particular handgun and if so, where would I find it? That would at least provide me a more scientific gauge to whether or not the rounds are safe to fire, manually or otherwise. |
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just min loads in the books, for the gun they used for testing. Check out a few reloading manufs FAQs'. I've shoot someone bulleys load once. It would not cycle my 16 lb ISMI spring. This load worked great in his custom bullseye gun. I think his recoil spring was 8 lbs. If all you got is 50 to 100 get a bullet puller. |
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One of the unfortunate things about reloading (so I am learning) is how piecemeal it is. The more books you own, the better your perception is for the true parameters of a load. For example, I want to load a 158 gr JFP round with 2400 powder. My book only has 158 gr JHP, not JFP. Looking around, I find 158 gr JFP, but not with 2400 powder, so the starting grain data is useless to me for that entry (but the OAL might be useful). So, I usually have to guestimate something like that with the book entry for 2400, starting a hair hotter than the starting load to ensure I'm within safe parameters since the bullet type is not identical. Sometimes I luck out and find the exact powder and bullet. Usually not, so I have to stick to identical powder, same weight bullet. As far as what weapon was used, you are often in a worse position for data. A few hobbyists have published what weapon was used for their loads, but most books that I have read merely state something like "standard 5" barrel" with no make or model mentioned. If everybody shot a 5" 1911, there were only 3 powders on the market, and only 6 bullet types, it would be doable. Instead .45 ACP has 12 popular platforms easily (1911s have another 5 or so variations of the platform), then there are the many powders out there, and the many many bullets. So the information MAY be out there, and may be accessable with work, but it isn't spoonfed in a handy $29.95 annually updated manual. I wish it was. |