Posted: 7/29/2007 3:58:33 PM EDT
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Bought it! Purpose of this 1911: Primarily if not exclusively for range use, perhaps a home defense backup option (if my other choices were not available for some reason). S70 Repro or (another) WWI Repro? S70 has friendlier sights and more use as a platform for custom work if I have a desire to go that route. WWI is a somewhat rarer and better finished pistol with the fun of a military replica, plus having another means I can actually shoot one instead of rubbing it with a diaper and sighing all the time. All things considered, I'm inclined to go with the S70. If S70, Blued or SS? Blued looks way prettier NIB, and this weapon shouldn't have anything more than usage wear since it will be not be carried. Also, carbon steel is harder. SS wears much better cosmetically, is more resistant to corrosion, and it shows filth, making it easier to give a thorough cleaning. I'm inclined to go with blued but I'm still on the fence. Questions 1. Where is the best place to grab one right now? Do you know of a better place for pricing and inventory than Bud's Guns? WWI: $892.85; S70 Blued: $799.95; S70 SS: $791.76 all in stock. 2. What's involved with the Colt "O" package, and how much does that cost? ETA: If the O package comes with a beavertail, is it that unsightly "droopy" one they seem to be using these days? The O Package Costs $375 and is comprised as follows: Novak rear, Dovetailed front, "Upswept" grip safety (ala Special Combat Gov't), Complete Dehorn, Refinish (only finishes they currently market). 3. Assuming it's worth it, can they be ordered with the O Package from the factory, or do you have to ship your new gun in yourself? Doesn't look like it |
Tag for more info. I believe that the "O" package includes a dehorning job, new sights and a beavertail, but I may be incorrect and/or missing other things. |
The thing is it's really not the home defense weapon. I added "and (at best) home defense" for the rather unlikely event that I would need it in lieu of the other plans I have made. The fact is that I have my CCW sporting night sights (in SS, btw) with me in the bedroom for home defense. In all actuality, this will probably not see the light of day unless I remove from the safe to fondle or to drop into the range bag (unless it becomes a candidate for custom work, and then hard chrome and all the wonder finishes come in to play negating the blued liability if I chose that finish). The only advantages I see with SS for its likely use is corrosion resistance, easier to clean thouroughly, and less signs of wear through normal use. (all of which still make a decent argument for SS for range use). |
Actually I'm a big SS fan, trying to talk myself into the prettiness of the blued.  All my use 1911s are/were SS and all my "do not shoot and rub w a cloth when you're done oggling" 1911s are blued. I was kind of curious to see how the other half lives, with a blued gun I could actually get a little dirty, but I really am on the fence. |
So, avoid the "fugly-rollmarked" gun and buy either a cheap gun with that's a PITA to detail strip and has poor trigger by comparison, or a more expensive one with hideous cocking serrations all over it that make a "fugly" rollmark look like a gracious blessing?  I have a proud tradition of having zero 1911s that are built with Series 80 firing systems. Actually I wholeheartedly approve of the NRM 1991 for what it is. The original looked like an ugly, plastic piece of junk, and one would never think the ORM and the NRM were the same line of 1911. I would say that while Colt has a long way to go with working out the QC bugs, they have made a quantum leap with aesthetics. The NRM 1991 is a striking departure from what used to be offered, and they actually struck a fair balance with respect to Series 70 repro rollmark. They have retained the substance of rollmark for traditional value, yet the form is far more subtle and compact than the clumsy billboard of the 1970s. I really think they made lemonade out of that one. |
Just yank the S80 parts. Why pay more for the S70 repro? Of course, getting another WWI repro can't be a bad idea, given that they're relatively cheap right now. But honestly I wouldn't want to cut that one up because it just wouldn't look right customized. So I'd leave it stock, which means I'd never shoot it 'cause I hate shooting GI guns, but since shooting it is the raison d'etre for a range gun, so I guess that's why I don't have any. I've seen what I can only assume was the "O" package on a blued Colt. It had a real beavertail, not that duckbill abomination that rides on the XSEs, Novaks, and a decent looking trigger. Can't recall if it had front holster graters or not, but I don't think so. |
The difference in price between a S70 Repro and a 1991 is $100. Replacing the parts in the Blued 1991 will put me halfway to the 70, and the parts plus grips to replace the fugly rubber ones on the SS 1991 will cover the difference in price. What am I left with? A "mucked-with" gun with a hole in the slide that requires a shimming and a compromised resale value, all for "marginally" prettier roll marks and perhaps $50 savings. I think the hassle alone is worth the extra money. With respect to the GI pistols, I definitely have that urge to get the extra m1911 so I can shoot one, but those U-notches look like the novelty will fade in short order, so I can definitely relate on that one I am going to call Colt and find out what's what with this "O" package though. I called and you were right: see update.
Good thought, and not one that was lost on me. The insignificant issue is that they are pricer. Add this issue with the fact that they use that abortion of a duck bill grip safety, and those hideous wraparonds and there now exists a significant problem. $850 gun + "proper" beavertail & fitting, + proper grips & possibly a "need" for checkering puts me way too close to saving a little longer for a NIB CQB. For my needs and tastes the Gold Cup (as set up today) has priced and configured itself out of the equation. |
So I guess I did hear right. I presume that if they use a S70 or similar, they replace the hammer to be compatible with the beavertail, right? And for the latter part, did Colt say you can't order it from the factory with the 'O' package, or did it just not come up? |
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They never said a word about replacing a hammer, so my best guess would be a bob. As for the ordering business... I have long since discovered what a PITA Colt Custom Shop weapons are with stores. Either you are one of these "status symbol" gun shops who gets hold of them or you are a lowly FFL who has no desire to get entangled in such an order (I have tried with 4 places locally in the past). Of those who stock, I don't know if they have a standing order or what, but I haven't come across one who will do it based on my limited "research". Theoretically it's possible, but I haven't come across a dealer who is up for that yet. |
I agree on that damn grip safety. A drop in Wilson would look better. But under the wrap around grips, the fron strap is serated... If you would want that. |
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A package from the Colt Custom Shop with a Novak rear site, a dovetailed front site, a fitted Smith and Alexander beavertail, a mild de-horning, and refinishing. I think the cost is around $360, IIRC. from forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=155757&highlight=1991+package pics of one forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=140962&highlight=Model+package |
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Stainless are always nice, it's not a carry or defense gun so you don't have to worry about excessive wear. You could send it to YoBo if you wanted. I'd go Series 70, Stainless, you said you've got other guns for self-defense, why not have a nice one, maybe for a gun case or for occasional usage. I am of the persuasion of if you have it shoot it, but, eh if it's just for kicks or whatever, Blue'd is nice, but Stainless has a better look in my opinion. Then again, I'm slightly biast, I'll probably own a Stainless 1911 one day, but my first will be a carry 1911 and probably end up looking like Lumpy's hopefully it's the same make and model though. But I also like the good looks of a Stainless, I've never really cared for Blue'd weapons. |
It was a WWI Repro. The cosmetics on that were so abominable that it had to be scrapped and a brand new one replaced mine. Such a shame too because #1 had stunning bluing to it. I REALLY hope that this one comes up "production perfect" because I have had to have one Colt replaced by them and another was re-sent due to unsatisfactory workmanship for both repair and refinishing. It would really be nice to live like all those people who think Colt is the be all end all because every time they open the blue box it's just right, for a change. No worries... I'm optimistic. That said, I am starting to inch towards stainless. I feel my collection could use a blued one a hair more than a SS, but the latter seems a little more practical, and should I get the wild hare up my arse to play SGB and pack a "big boy's gun" instead of my CQB Compact, I don't have to worry about holster wear and that nonsense. That and that re-bluing fiasco of late is starting to make my stomach feel a little uneasy. |
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How about something unique? Colt WWI Reissue Send it to Dave Williams at Springfield Custom Shop. Novak sights/ Standard rear and Night sight front. Ed Brown Hardcorp Hammer Ed Brown Hardcorp perfection Sear Ed Brown Hardcorp perfection disconnecter 5lb trigger job Ed Brown Tactical thumb Safety Greider Medium Trigger Carry bevel and general dehorn 25lpi the frontstrap Ed Brown 25lpi Mainspring housing ( If you send the parts they'll install them ) Bevel mag well Bead blast rounds/Polish Flats and Hard Chrome. VZ Black micarta grips. Now that's a SGB kind of Blaster. |
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Ok... while that certainly makes for an interesting and unique cocktail, that would destroy my mind 1. I couldn't bear covering over that carbonia blue finish. Maybe if I got a steal on one of the lesser "blackened" ones... 2. The object of the game was to take my Para Ordnance victory sale $$$ and buy a reasonably priced range rover. I think your creation just put me $250 over the Wilson I can't afford. |
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Ok........... something a little more ordinary Series 70 reissue Commander hammer Novak plain rear, Novak front night sight. Beavertail grip safety Ed Brown perfection Sear Ed Brown tactical thumb safety 5lb trigger job Dehorn Lower and flair ejection port Smith & Alexander Grip safety VZ Grips Something like this......     |
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Well, I have made my choice. After giving ARFCOM a say in the matter, I have found that there was never a majority decision with any option listed, so I processed your comments with my own thoughts and have arrived at a decision. I'll keep you posted when it arrives. Thanks for playing.
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I agree wholeheartedly, there are 1911s out there.  (no apostrophe needed, FYI)If you came to burst my bubble on Colts, you came about 5 years too late. I am one of those characters who buys Colts because of the pretty pony on the slide, but I am not one who deludes himself into thinking they are the best (although I don't think there are many left out there like this anymore). To me, a Colt is a Harley. It is a symbol of tradition and history that looks great when leave it pristine, and when you strip all the OEM crap and do it your way. Springers might make an = pistol, but when I see a $2,000+ custom on the EE built on a Springer, it looks kind of Wal-Martish to me, whereas one built on a Colt looks right. Kimbers are plain fugly, IMO. The other thing that is worth mentioning about Colts that no other production company does pertains to warranties. Colt is the only company that will reimburse shipping if the screwup on your gun is their fault. This is no small feat in an age where manufacturers produce crap alongside the crowns, and QC is spotty at best. I had a Para experience that sucked almost $200 out of my wallet in shipping charges. What good is a lifetime warranty when you repeatedly have issues with their smiths and QC and have to spend $40-$50 EVERY time to fix something? Remember Markm, our esteemed Springer hater? He fell for the production liability losses formula, when he decided the $35 fix was worth doing at home instead of paying more on shipping and waiting. The result? His warranty was voided when he tried to bring it back to them later. Companies hedge their bets on nickel dime shit all the time, acutely aware that consumers won't bug them over the trivials when shipping is $50. There is no accountability or incentive to make better QC checks or better parts when your competitors do the same thing. Colt has stepped outside of that liability mantle, and it's a bold move worthy of praise. I like the older models too, but the problem is that when you get a nice old one you are hesitant to put it to hard use, and when you get a rough one you are torn between leaving it as is in its scruffy form or building the crap out of it and compromising its original configuration. I get a NIB Colt and there's all the giddiness of popping the cherry on prom night, plus I can beat the hell out of it or mod it to death with no guilt. |
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Quoted: hope you went with the s70 stainless. have a couple things done. Ok, fess up... you just bought it or Nater's your troll account Evil Twin in LA I actually offered him a trade, but I didn't hear a word back. I'm glad in hindsight, because I would have had to pull some parts and re-purchace replacements to make the gun over my way. So, if you just bought it, how do you like it? |
Yep. I can't tell you how many YoBo's I've passed up because they were on SA guns. Ick. |
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yeah, I bought Nater's, but I've been out of town and hope to pick it up tomorrow. Although I haven't touched it, I'm going to have to have a couple things redone but it was a pretty good base to start with and nate gave me a good deal. Way less than new price and I would have put a grand into a new one. Turns out a friend of a friend did the work and we laughed how the gun was coming home. I really wanted the 1911 repro with the carbonia blue but this will be my carry piece (current is a 1919 vintage redone in nickle). I love the old-tme workmanship. I don't mind the sights on mine as it lines up quick with the blade on top of the notch and it shoots poa at 25 yds. But I want to semi-retire the 1911 and the blue doesn't work for carry on the bayou. I had a cherry s70 20 yrs. ago and and it spotted with rust in no time. |