[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Newbie question- dropping the hammer (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/8/2006 10:25:31 AM EDT
| I know the "correct" way to carry a 1911 is cocked and locked, but I am wondering on the SAFE way to drop the hammer without risking a ND. Should I always unload the pistol before attempting to de-cock it, or is there another safe way? |
a lot of guys would argue if "cocked and locked"is the correct way or not.old timers i know still carry theirs hammer down |
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cocked and locked is the correct carry method for a 1911. if you must drop the hammer on a loaded chamber. place the weakhand thumb between the hammer and firing pin and pull trigger allowing hammer to rest on the back of your thumb. grab hammer with fingers of strong hand and slowly remove your thumb easing the trigger down. this is NOT to be considered a routine prcatice and screwing up will leave a hole in your floor and a stain in your drawers. carry cocked and locked or hammer down empty chamber. <pre series 80 guns could fire if dropped as there is no firing pin safety> |
Yup, a lot of old timers would argue this. Although they'd still be taking part in a very dangerous practice. They can argue all they want, but they'd still be wrong (unless the question was "what's the most dangerous way to carry a 1911 that also renders it completely useless in a real defensive scenario?" in that case, condition 2 carry would be absolutely the best answer) |
Um, the 1911 replaced the SAA. It (SAA) was always carried with the hammer down. It was most certainly not usless in a defensive situation. The answer to the OP's question: If you desire to lower the hammer on a loaded chamber, get a 1911 hammer (the one with ears on each side. The 1911A1 is more difficult to control, and will slip on you with very loud results. Even with the eared hammer, you will have an AD given enough time unless you lower the hammer on your thumb as mentioned above. |
The SAA is not comparable. For one thing, it does not have a safety. The 1911 has two. It also has to be cocked after every shot--so cocking it for the first shot doesn't matter. |
When not carrying (as when cleaning, etc.) I drop out the mag, take thumb safety off and cycle it thus ejecting the live round. Lock slide back and inspect chamber then drop slide forward (by hand!). You then can manually lower hammer or dry fire as you wish. YMMV
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Yes, this is what your missing: lowering the hammer on a live round is dangerous as already stated because it can easily slip and fire. In a defensive situation, cocking a 1911 is very slow as well. It's dangerous and there is NO GOOD REASON TO DO IT. Plus you can't put the safety on when the hammer is down, not that it would be any safer if you could. |
They also didn't have one in the chamber, or I should say, cylinder. 5 shots was it. |
Roland said it too. I just couldn't pass it up. Some people either engage their typing before their brain, or they are they have no clue as to what they're talking about, but still participate with their wisdom.  I'm sure I've done it too though.  But stupid stuff usually doesn't slide on by too often. Too many sharp guys here. 
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Why does this keep coming up? If you don't want to carry a 1911 the correct way (cocked and locked) why would you buy one? Buy a Sig with a decocker and be done with it. 1911's are not meant to be carried with the hammer down, there is no arguement. If they were meant to be carried with the hammer down there would be no need for the thumb safety that JMB designed 
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There should NEVER BE ANY POINT IN TIME WHERE YOU FIND THE NEED OR REASON TO LOWER A HAMMER ON A LOADED CHAMBER ON A 1911. Gun loaded- hammer back, safety on. Just like an AR15. Gun unloaded- check check check, dry fire, or just leave it back. Thats where it was designed to be anyways. I've heard manually lowering the hammer a bunch can actually damage the guts. You should never have to manually lower a hammer on a 1911. Never. |
Yowzers. FWIW, a fella I know who CCW's a 1911 has a 5-gal bucket of water next to his safe. As he says: "Better'n nothin'." |
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I think the reason this keeps comming up is that Magnum, PI, the A Team, and a whole host of TV and Hollywood types are seen thumbing back the hammer before dispatching evil doers. I don't know why, except that the studio's don't know jack about safe firearms handling. Let me shout for a minute... IT IS AN UNSAFE PRACTICE DON'T DO IT. Just my 2cents. ka |
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There are also plenty of hollywood examples of the hammer being lowered to signify the end of a threat. (Like when Jules lowers his hammer after delivering one of his 10 min speeches in the resturaunt at Pulp Fiction) Its a nice clue to non-gun people that the gun isn't going to hurt anyone anymore. |
no, it's the hollywood where glocks must be cocked (or at least you hear the sound) and where every shotgun must be pumped several times before it will fire |
Right on. If it were made to be decocked, it would have a decocker and perhaps no manual safety like a Polish Radom. When I was new to these pistols, I was into Condition 3. As I've gotten more comfortable, I now favor Condition 1. There's no need for Condition 2 - it doesn't give you anything over Conditions 1 and 3 and it presents a very real safety risk. You don't want to be carrying a 1911 in the waistband in Condition Two. You can say goodbye to some of your "vital" organs if you do something like, say, go to McDonald's or 7-Eleven and accidently bump the bottom of the counter with the rear of the lowered hammer. |
I've heard that it can wear out the half-cock notch. That notch is only there to prevent an AD if something should go wrong with the full-cock notch or the sear - preventing an AD. It was never meant to be used as an operator-applied safety. The half-cock is simply designed to catch a hammer that has been dropped unintentionally (without a trigger pull) - it's there in the case of a mechanical failure. |
He also calls it Mr. 9mm. And it looks like a .45 to me |
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Like everyone has posted carry it cocked and locked,there is no need to ever lower the hammer on a live round in a 1911. If you need to clear it just drop mag,lever slide(with thumb on slide stop). Then ease slide forward and pull trigger(dry fireing will not hurt sear )while easeing the trigger down will. Carrying with hammer down on a ser80 might be okay(but why?)cocking the hammer takes more dexterity than just flipping down your right thumb. Bob
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Yah...cocked and locked...only way to go for a 1911. The only pattern gun I can think of that you would want to lower the hammer manually on a loaded chamber is if you wanted to carry a CZ75 style gun DA/SA. I carried one for a few months that way and I actually got pretty used to lowering it by grabbing the hammer and pulling the trigger to slowly let it down. Ultimately, though, I am quite certain if I had carried for many years like that I would have had an ND. That fact and the long-ass DA trigger pull made me switch back to Sigs (I have good sized hands but I could never get used to that DA trigger pull). Guess I coulda carried the CZ cocked and locked I just liked the concept of not having to swipe a safety for that first shot (though I am about to qualify for my CCW with a 1911...go figure). Course I'm sure there are quite a few CZ guys that have never had an accident...just made me a little uncomfortable. What other guns would you have a good reason to lower manually on a loaded chamber? |
Of the guns that are still relevant today...not one. |
Did it hurt your fingers? Good thing the muzzle was in a safe direction, but what about the slide and hammer comming back? If I were going to try it (and I wouldn't) I'd be scared about the slide taking a chunk out of my finger or thumb if it would AD. |
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"What other guns would you have a good reason to lower manually on a loaded chamber?" If you were supposed to be able to decock it, it would come with a decocker. That's a good rule of thumb for all those people who (dangerously) put their weapons in Condition 2. |
No way, dude. That's why you just quit aiming it at the target's head for a second when you decock it, just like in the movies, yo.
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"The gun Vincent uses is a 1911A1 Auto Ordnance .45 ACP pistol that has been chromed and given pearl grips. Jules' gun is a Star Model B 9mm pistol that has been chromed and given pearl grips, too." www.imdb.com/title/tt0110912/trivia |
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On a UNLOADED 1911, I pinch the hammer between my thumb and index finger...pull trigger and continue to hold back while "easing" hammer forward, then release trigger. I pinch the hammer so it will not slip as easily as a thumb perched on top of the hammer. I hold the trigger back to save the sear/hammer geometry. This is what I've been told/taught...makes sense to me. |
There are different methods for different hammers - what type of hammer do ya have?
I keep my 1911 in the top drawer in condition 2. I've lowered the hammer on my 1911's HUNDREDS of times without issue |
I'll throw in my $.02 A) Cocked and Locked is the ONLY way that a 1911 should be carried... Largely due to the fact that it was the only way that is was designed to be carried. Secondly, the only way that it should ever be decocked (though it never NEEDS to be) is on an empty chamber! B) I have shamefully had a ND at the range when decocking a pistol. Albeit, mine was with my Beretta Tomcat .32 Auto. Instead of utilizing the tip-up barrel to unload the round, I pointed the muzzle at the ground, thumbed the hammer and pulled the trigger. BANG! As stated earlier, the end result was a few drops of piss in my pants. I have never done that again and never will. I am just fortunate that I still have ten toes. C) ***EVERYONE PLEASE TRY THIS NEXT TIME AT THE RANGE*** I learned this at LEO training and I assure you it will be OK... Place your thumb over the back of the slide and pull the trigger. Trust me and just do it so that you know what will happen... Nothing. The gun will fire the round and fail to chamber another round. Your thumb will be fine and still attached to your hand, I promise. I hate this myth that having your hand, fingers, etc. near a slide will get them rmoved. Not true in any way. This is useful to know if you are ever on the wrong end of a gun fight also. Do anything possible to cause the perps weapon to malfunction! |
 There are also people who inject themselves with heroine, but haven't OD'ed yet. Chances are they never will OD, but hey, is it worth the risk?Doesn't make it safe just because you've done it without any issues...yet. It was designed to have the safety engaged with the hammer back. It doesn't have a decocker. Doesn't common sense here tell you something? CONDITION 2 IS NOT SAFE, nor was it the way it was designed to be carried. I hope your neighbors or children or wife don't have a problem when one day you send a round through the house. |