Posted: 11/28/2005 12:31:03 PM EDT
| Tried some 230 gr rainiers and couldn't get them to function through two proven custom guns with any kind of consistency. Loaded long as 1.270 to as short as 1.245 and I get the same malfunction with both guns. Guns fail to go into battery sometimes only as much as a 1/4 inch. Pull out the round and drop them directly in the chamber so they aren't oversized or long. This bullet has me scratching my head. Any thoughts? |
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I have used the Ranier bullets, 200g SWC, and 200g FP (Flat Points) for a long time through various 1911's with good success. I had a a similar issue once with a Wilson CQB. An OAL of 1.250 took care of it though. I think, but I would verify that you could still safely seat a tad bit deeper. Some things that will help; Make sure you are putting on a good taper crimp Make sure there are no shavings or build up from the seating die left on the case mouth Try different mags Try a different style of bullet Use a chamber brush such as the one made by wilson to make sure the chamber is real clean. Make sure you have a strong enough recoil spring for the chambering / return to battery. Disclaimer: I'm a true Glock guy. There are many 1911 experts here (they all seem to be from VA) who can probably help you better.  |
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Odd problem, I got some plated bullets that were just .002 oversized and I had feeding problems but you say you can drop them in the chamber. Is your ammo feeding behind the extractor like it's supposed to or when you have the jam is the case in front of your extractor, not like it's supposed to be. If it is feeding in front of the extractor then I would try another extractor, perhaps yours has too much tension and will not hope over the rim of the case when a round feeds in front of the extractor rather than like it's supposed to. Also try www.berrysmfg.com for plated bullets, you will never look at Raniers the same. |
| A buddy gave me some of these, they were SWC profile. He'd been having problems with them. Most of my guns would fail to chamber them. The bullet diameter was too large, and most of them would seize in the chamber. I shot what I could through a clapped-out .45 and shitcanned the rest of them. |
I was going to mention the extractor and breechface however I assumed othe ammo works fine so it's less likely this is a factor. Although he is shooting reloads and another slight possiblity is that he could have some high primers which may be keeping the case rim further away from the breech making it too tight against the extractor to slide behind it freely. Good tip on the Berrys bullets, I've heard they were good. |
I heard at one time the Rainer bullets had some issues with plating thickness. They use a very soft lead, and a thick copper plating. The bullets should mic out at .451 some at .452 A bullet would have to be pretty large in diameter to seize in a chamber. If a bullet was that large in diameter, when reloading, it would have to be forced into the casing which would require an aggressive resizing and quite a flair at the case mouth to accept the bullet. This should raise a flag to the reloader. Again, I would suspect "proper" bullet depth especially in the case of a SWC where if the shoulder is too high could even start to enter the rifling. A good taper crimp is a must. |
I'll see if I have any still around that I can measure. All I know is that my crimp die had worked fine at its previous setting, and I wasn't going to bother resetting it for a couple hundred orphaned bullets. |
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I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die in station 4 of my Dillon 550B. This ensures that the diameter is correct AFTER inserting the bullet. (I had a problem with my 1911's slide not closing all the way, and using this method corrected the problem, permanently!) I THINK they still make these, no? |
Lee factory crimp dies are what you need. I had a very tight chamber in a Sig GSR and had identical issues with Federal FMJ bullets. It cured the problem nicely. A stronger recoil spring did not. I got the dies at Midway. Good price, but they butt bang you on shipping. Look at your slide lube too. My Sig was too tight for the silicon grease I use on other guns. Now that the weather is colder, the viscosity rises, adding to the issue. Changing to CLP was a good thing. $11.39 Midway linky I used to have a huge problem with Winchester brass and 124gr fmj 9mm feeding in the AR platform. Thin cases led to a poor crimp and round collapse on the feed ramp. The Lee die cured that problem too. I wish I had changed to these dies several years ago. I have them cranked down for maximum crimp.
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| Sorry I was not able to read some of the responses for some time now. Again, I'll mention that the failed rounds had been chamber checked in both guns without problems. Some of the recovered rounds were also chamber checked without problems. I had one round recently that kept the gun about 1/4 inch from full battery. The rim was behind/gripped by the extractor like it should, as are all of them, but the thing was sticky to rack the slide and some require a bit of force. Popped the round out and it dropped right into the chamber without a problem. Nose of the round had a huge dent in it as if it had contacted the barrel/ramp intersection and had set the bullet back some. Some of the rounds that have not been set back(shorter oal) still pass the chamber test. Remember this is in two different proven guns. I'm at a loss because I know that there are some out there that get by with the rainiers. |
Did you try seating the bullets deeper and applying a good taper crimp????? |
| I have tried the bullets from 1.270 down to 1.245. The crimp(bell removal) is straight like it should be. I've decided the rainiers have several problems. Soft lead with thin plating is causing the slide to lose momentum when the occasional bullet doesn't contact the ramp just right. Maybe it's the ogive. These bullets at any length never hand cycled though a gun smoothly. Too many people I shoot with have tried these at one time and have had either feeding problems or the bullets losing their plating. Hello precision. |
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I had a problem with 200 grain flatpoint Rainers where the slide would not go fully into battery. Some were so bad that I had to beat the recoil spring plug against a 2x4 to get the slide open again. Strangely, none seemed to have problems going into the barrel when I just dropped them in. I did notice that some rounds were slightly larger in diameter, but even they seemed to drop right in, but during actual shooting, I was having failures one out of ever 15 to 20 rounds. My solution was the Lee Factory Crimp die. Since purchasing this, I have not had a single failure with these bullets. This may or may not be the same problem you are having, but it was the best $12 I ever spent. |
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Quoted: ...where the slide would not go fully into battery. Some were so bad that I had to beat the recoil spring plug against a 2x4 to get the slide open again. Strangely, none seemed to have problems going into the barrel when I just dropped them in. I did notice that some rounds were slightly larger in diameter, but even they seemed to drop right in, but during actual shooting, I was having failures one out of ever 15 to 20 rounds. quote] You have described my problem better than I could. I guess I'm failing to see how a crimp die could help. Friends of mine who "overcrimped" the raineirs were having the bullet come apart. My thought on crimping a 45 is this. Remove the bell and thats it. If you have problems with bullet setback then the expander on the sizing die is too large. JMO. Thoughts? |
| The Lee Factory Crimp full length sizes the cartridge. I actually don't crimp them too tight, but I do have the die almost touching the shell plate at the bottom of the stroke. All I can figure is that some of the brass I was using was buldged and the die get them back to where they should be. All I know is, it worked for me. |
The goal is to roll the case mouth slightly into the bullet for two reasons 1. so the bullet is held firmly enough to keep it from setback, and 2. to remove the ledge or sharp edge of the case mouth. Take a set of calipers and measure the diameter where the bullet meets the case mouth after you apply the crimp. I just measured some of mine and they were .469 Also, try measuring some factory ball ammo OAL. I said this before, I think you can go deeper than 1.245", it may only take a lttle bit more. |
| My crimps have all measured in the .469-.470 range. I get a thin mark on the mouth after the crimp. Best advice I've heard on setting a crimp die was to take a case straight from the resizing die to the crimp stage, screw the die down till it touched, and then lock it. Most of the failed rounds that were recovered were not set back. I can hand cycle the stuff four or five times and it doesn't change the oal. The precisions ran flawless again this weekend. I'm approaching the I don't know and I don't care stage. Thanks for the comments. |
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I measured some CCI Blazer BRASS 230 ball, the OAL is 1.262 I tend to set my OAL @ 1.250-55 .469-70 crimp Lee factory crimp die @ station 4 I really don't think Rainer bullets are your problem, I havent to this date had any problems whatsoever using Rainer 230g ball or 200g SWC. good luck |
I do not want to sound like I'm crappin' on Rainiers. I know that some have had good luck with them. I just happen to not be one of them and I know others. These two guns have handled factory hollow points, ball, reloaded ball, reloaded hp's, moly coated, and a few wc's. My arrow tends to point to the Rainier bullet. ETA Would like to ask you guys that are running Rainiers without problems: Are you running them through factory guns, or, guns with tighter chambers/tolerances? Why I ask? The people that are having problems(on the WWB and locally) seem to be trying to run them through custom practical competition guns and the ones that aren't, are factory. ??? |
Since you suspect the bullets are the culprit, I have to ask, have you even placed a call to Rainier about this????????? I've run the Rainier bullets through 4 different Wilsons, which have Storm Lake Machine barrels and 2 EB Kobras which the barrels are supposedly made in house by EB. |
No. I have not contacted rainier. |