Posted: 2/21/2012 3:12:57 PM EDT
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I am thinking about converting one of my 1911's to 45 Super and would like to hear from others who have done this.
Has anyone else done this if so what are the pros and cons to this cal? |
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The only downside is ammo cost, if you don't reload. Even if you reload, brass is much more expensive due to licensing. Now, on the conversion...it is best to have a ramped barrel, the Clark-Lissner type is best. Have the frame milled and fit a Schuemann barrel for the best strength and full support of the brass. The other issue to slow the slide is a smaller radius on the bottom of the firing pin retainer/hammer stop. This decreases the mechanical advantage of the hammer's mainspring, resulting in faster cocking of the hammer which slows the slide faster. Only steel frames should be converted, even then a buffer on the guide rod is good insurance. I would not convert a conventional 1911 barrel because most have a bit of unsupported chamber. I like the Super for hunting purposes and have good experience with 200 grain XTPs. I developed my loads over time, the first was from CIP data using N350. SAAMI uses both pressure and momentum/recoil to limit .45 ACP loads where the early CIP data was pressure alone. Since then, Power Pistol has become the favorite. Blue Dot was another one I've used which gives good performance. |
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Ace's was offering a conversion for a glock 21 but it's been over 12 years ago.
Keith_J, it sounds like a huge hassle to convert! can you translate that to costs for the unskilled? OP, i have an email from a member of gt encouraging me to pass on 10mm in favor of 45Super. he's definitley a fan of Super. interesting read from what i remember of it.pm me if you'd like to get a copy/link. |
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Real Guns did a $6 conversion a while back. If the barrel is fully supported, you can get away with it. You need to check with a sectioned .45 Super case to make sure. If not, milling for a Clark ramp should be under $100 and a barrel can be had for $200. Then you need to follow the fitting instructions at Schuemann's to make sure lockup is certain and the lugs unmesh fully during cycling. This is important on .45 ACP alone. Super demands perfection. The firing pin retainer is $15 and it too needs fitting. This helps balky extractors since the retainer also fixes the extractor. And then the lower edge needs a tiny radius, most are over 1/8", half that works fine. Just a bit of grinding/stoning as it is hard and files won't cut it. Then throw in a 22-24 pound spring set (recoil and firing pin), a Wilson Shok-Buff and work up loads. Para Ordnance P14s are great candidates as they have Clark ramped barrels and are fully supported. Check the fitting and timing to be sure. The high capacity makes it good black bear defense or hog hunting. |
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Quoted:
Ace's was offering a conversion for a glock 21 but it's been over 12 years ago. Keith_J, it sounds like a huge hassle to convert! can you translate that to costs for the unskilled? OP, i have an email from a member of gt encouraging me to pass on 10mm in favor of 45Super. he's definitley a fan of Super. interesting read from what i remember of it.pm me if you'd like to get a copy/link. Ace customs still offers a kit for the 1911 for somewhere around 200.00 it comes with a barrel, 22 pound recoil spring and a few other parts |
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Quoted:
The only downside is ammo cost, if you don't reload. Even if you reload, brass is much more expensive due to licensing. Now, on the conversion...it is best to have a ramped barrel, the Clark-Lissner type is best. Have the frame milled and fit a Schuemann barrel for the best strength and full support of the brass. The other issue to slow the slide is a smaller radius on the bottom of the firing pin retainer/hammer stop. This decreases the mechanical advantage of the hammer's mainspring, resulting in faster cocking of the hammer which slows the slide faster. Only steel frames should be converted, even then a buffer on the guide rod is good insurance. I would not convert a conventional 1911 barrel because most have a bit of unsupported chamber. I like the Super for hunting purposes and have good experience with 200 grain XTPs. I developed my loads over time, the first was from CIP data using N350. SAAMI uses both pressure and momentum/recoil to limit .45 ACP loads where the early CIP data was pressure alone. Since then, Power Pistol has become the favorite. Blue Dot was another one I've used which gives good performance. I don't know where you are getting your brass prices but midway has Starline 45 super for $25 a hunderd which is about the same as 45acp |
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Quoted: Quoted: How does 45 Super compare to 460 Rowland? I was actually going ask how a .45 Super compares to a 10mm ... Full .45 Super is equal or better than the original 10mm loadings. The tactical .45 Super loads are about equal to current 10mm loadings. .460 Rowland is a beast, about like a .44 magnum with equal barrel length. I've chronographed 200 grain XTPs at 1250+ FPS from a 5" barrel. I was getting primer smear because the action was unlocking too soon. An extra power firing pin spring solved that with a lighter hammer. I have yet to try heavier bullets since I'm getting good performance on hogs with the 200 grain Hornady bullets. It is quite a difference from even +P, stopping all activity on the pistol range, much like when someone whips out a 4" .44 Magnum. |
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Quoted: Quoted: The only downside is ammo cost, if you don't reload. Even if you reload, brass is much more expensive due to licensing. Now, on the conversion...it is best to have a ramped barrel, the Clark-Lissner type is best. Have the frame milled and fit a Schuemann barrel for the best strength and full support of the brass. The other issue to slow the slide is a smaller radius on the bottom of the firing pin retainer/hammer stop. This decreases the mechanical advantage of the hammer's mainspring, resulting in faster cocking of the hammer which slows the slide faster. Only steel frames should be converted, even then a buffer on the guide rod is good insurance. I would not convert a conventional 1911 barrel because most have a bit of unsupported chamber. I like the Super for hunting purposes and have good experience with 200 grain XTPs. I developed my loads over time, the first was from CIP data using N350. SAAMI uses both pressure and momentum/recoil to limit .45 ACP loads where the early CIP data was pressure alone. Since then, Power Pistol has become the favorite. Blue Dot was another one I've used which gives good performance. I don't know where you are getting your brass prices but midway has Starline 45 super for $25 a hunderd which is about the same as 45acp I bought a thousand back in 2001 for nearly $300. Should have waited  Oh well, they threw in a free tee shirt with pocket. |
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How does 45 Super compare to 460 Rowland? I was actually going ask how a .45 Super compares to a 10mm ... 45 Super: Brass- $192/K 460 Rowland: Brass-$231/k 10mm: Brass-$147/k All new unprimed Starline. 45 Super: 185 gr JHP 1,300 ft/s 200 gr JHP 1,200 ft/s 230 gr FMJ 1,100 ft/s 460 Rowland: 185 gr JHP 1,425 ft/s 230 gr JHP 1,250 ft/s 230 gr FMJ 1,250 ft/s 255 gr Bonded Core HP 1,100 ft/s 10mm: 150 gr Nosler JHP 1,475 ft/s 165 gr Golden Saber HP 1,425 ft/s 180 gr Hornady XTP 1,350 ft/s 200 gr WFNGC HC 1,300 ft/s 230 gr WFNGC HC 1,120 ft/s I thought there used to be a 280gr 460 load, but I can't find it now. ETA) Looks like Buffalo Bore makes a 460 Rowland 255gr load moving at 1,300 FPS. So they claim. 
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The only downside is ammo cost, if you don't reload. Even if you reload, brass is much more expensive due to licensing. Now, on the conversion...it is best to have a ramped barrel, the Clark-Lissner type is best. Have the frame milled and fit a Schuemann barrel for the best strength and full support of the brass. The other issue to slow the slide is a smaller radius on the bottom of the firing pin retainer/hammer stop. This decreases the mechanical advantage of the hammer's mainspring, resulting in faster cocking of the hammer which slows the slide faster. Only steel frames should be converted, even then a buffer on the guide rod is good insurance. I would not convert a conventional 1911 barrel because most have a bit of unsupported chamber. I like the Super for hunting purposes and have good experience with 200 grain XTPs. I developed my loads over time, the first was from CIP data using N350. SAAMI uses both pressure and momentum/recoil to limit .45 ACP loads where the early CIP data was pressure alone. Since then, Power Pistol has become the favorite. Blue Dot was another one I've used which gives good performance. I don't know where you are getting your brass prices but midway has Starline 45 super for $25 a hunderd which is about the same as 45acp I bought a thousand back in 2001 for nearly $300. Should have waited Oh well, they threw in a free tee shirt with pocket.
Midway also has it for 114.99 per 500 times that by 2 for 1000 for 229.98 maybe you should have waited . However my point was that it doesn't appear to be any more expensive today than regular 45 brass.
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I've run it in two of my handguns. A Glock 21 with a KKM barrel and 22 lb. spring, and a S&W M22-4 revolver. All AA#7 hand loads for me....230 gr XTPs averaging 1109 fps from the G21. Same loads average 1077 fps in the revolver. I ran enough to make sure they worked without incident and saved the rest of those I made up for woodswalking rounds.
I probably have more brass than I'll ever need. I bought a 500 lot 'cause that's all I could find at the time. If anyone wants to experiment, I'll let 200 rounds of new Starline brass go for what I paid. Drop me an IM. |