Posted: 12/18/2011 10:27:03 AM EDT
| For some strange reason, I am entertaining the thought of buying a 1911 again. I had two, at different times (SA Champion and DW Pointman Major) years ago, but sold them because of reliability issues.A buddy even had a $2500 Nighthawk that was sent back 4 times and we still couldn't get it to run through a whole mag. I swore never to go back. Seems that not to many people are having issues with 1911's now and I always loved the feel and the way I could shoot them. I'm looking at the SA Loaded or Colt Combat Elite and if spending a bit more, the DW Valor or SA TRP. How are the Colts stacking up nowadays? Any input on the others would be great. I really like the Valor too. Strangely, Buds pricing varies on the Valor when I look at it different times. I wonder why? |
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Colt is building some of the best 1911 pistols they've made since the 1960's.
Their careful building up of the company and new tooling and production equipment is starting to pay off with higher quality. Colt is using the least MIM of any maker, with only the magazine catch, sear, and disconnecter being made of MIM. All other parts are either forged or cast steel. Some models use polymer main spring housings. Most other makers are using more and more MIM. Colt says that next year they expect to about double production so it'll be easier to get a Colt. |
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Careful on the first runs of the new XSE Combat Elite. Mine (and many others) had a wicked dust cover rub and some other fitting issues. Colt gave me the run around on fixing it too. Insisted I pay shipping to send it back to them. Ended up having a local guy I trust fix it. FWIW, I'd rather have MIM parts that are in spec and properly fit, over a sloppy forged piece all day long.
Anyways, Colt still makes a solid 1911 for the money, and I wouldn't really have a problem buying another one. If I was in the market for a higher end, full-size, production 1911, the Special Combat Govt. (as opposed to the TRP) would probably be near the top of my list. The DW Valor is a solid pick as well. Once you get into that price range, it's kind of hard to go wrong. |
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Colt might be making the best pistols they've made since the 60's, but others have moved on...
SA is a very solid choice. Their customer service will fix what problems you have. Sig has an external extractor, which I'd much rather have. If SA made an external extractor that was solid, I'd never buy anything else. Traditionalists will poo-poo that change, but I'm not a traditionalist. I'm interested in function. Still. I buy SA because they will make it right, they will make it 100%. Not that I've had any issues. |
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Go with the Valor, you will be seriously impressed. I'm a die hard Colt fan but DWs are just on another level. What about the RZ-45 Heritage? Other than sights and grips, how is it different from the Valor s/s. I prefer the black Valor over all of the pistols listed, but it's also the most cash. |
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Go with the Valor, you will be seriously impressed. I'm a die hard Colt fan but DWs are just on another level. What about the RZ-45 Heritage? Other than sights and grips, how is it different from the Valor s/s. I prefer the black Valor over all of the pistols listed, but it's also the most cash. I don't have one and can't comment. I'm sure someone can answer you here: http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52 I bet the quality is the same because the price isn't that different when you compare it to the plain stainless Valor. I opted for the Black Valor also: 
A comment on the sights..........I was sure that they would be the one thing I may change on the gun since I was used to 3 dot setups (and especially Novaks) but now I definitely love these sights. |
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Colt is using the least MIM of any maker, with only the magazine catch, sear, and disconnecter being made of MIM. All other parts are either forged or cast steel. Some models use polymer main spring housings. Most other makers are using more and more MIM. Colt says that next year they expect to about double production so it'll be easier to get a Colt. Colt uses less MIM except for the companies that use less than them....Since DW was one of the options, a little homework is needed here. DW has NO MIM. Easier to get? Haven't had much of an issue getting anything...non-issue |
| Un reliable 1911's. Never seen one yet. Not a Colt anyway. My cousin had a SA high capacity gun that had issues (he said). But then again, none of mine are high end, high dollar semi-target pistols, just plain Colt 1911's or Combat Commanders or Series 80's. I bought a Glock M31 awhile back (I like the idea of a 16 shot .357 magnum) but I'm still carrying the series 80 or the series 70. If I want to shoot at something farther away than 50 yds. I use a rifle. |
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Sig has an external extractor, which I'd much rather have. If SA made an external extractor that was solid, I'd never buy anything else. Traditionalists will poo-poo that change, but I'm not a traditionalist. I'm interested in function. 
In what way is the external extractor superior? Every person who owns a 1911 should know how to properly tune your extractor. Takes 5 minutes (6 if Series 80) and will keep your 1911 running like a top indefinitely. I have 3rd gen S&W auto's with the same external extractor set-up they use on their 1911's. No issues, but try removing that EE for cleaning and I guarantee you, you'll see the beauty of the internal one. And if S&W is still using the shim set-up, they are exceedingly difficult to tune yourself. |
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Go with the Valor, you will be seriously impressed. I'm a die hard Colt fan but DWs are just on another level. What about the RZ-45 Heritage? Other than sights and grips, how is it different from the Valor s/s. I prefer the black Valor over all of the pistols listed, but it's also the most cash. RZ45s are nice, but the Valor has a better trigger and fit (and sights). No MIM in either. If you can afford it, go with a Valor. |
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Quoted: Colt is building some of the best 1911 pistols they've made since the 1960's. Their careful building up of the company and new tooling and production equipment is starting to pay off with higher quality. Colt is using the least MIM of any maker, with only the magazine catch, sear, and disconnecter being made of MIM. All other parts are either forged or cast steel. Some models use polymer main spring housings. Most other makers are using more and more MIM. Colt says that next year they expect to about double production so it'll be easier to get a Colt. I agree wholeheartedly. All my 1911s are Colts, and there is a reason. |
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Sig has an external extractor, which I'd much rather have. If SA made an external extractor that was solid, I'd never buy anything else. Traditionalists will poo-poo that change, but I'm not a traditionalist. I'm interested in function.
In what way is the external extractor superior? Every person who owns a 1911 should know how to properly tune your extractor. Takes 5 minutes (6 if Series 80) and will keep your 1911 running like a top indefinitely. I have 3rd gen S&W auto's with the same external extractor set-up they use on their 1911's. No issues, but try removing that EE for cleaning and I guarantee you, you'll see the beauty of the internal one. And if S&W is still using the shim set-up, they are exceedingly difficult to tune yourself. That's a pretty funny joke you said there. If a properly tuned extractor lasted 'indefinitely' then no one who owns a 1911 would need to know how to tune it. Pretty clever. |
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and I am not alone
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=343130 |
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My mine grip with current Colt 1911's is that they still have the hall marks of a Colt. Sharp edges, so-so triggers, raised edges on the roll marks, loose fitting triggers and slides, etc. Few of these effect reliability or performance(in reality a loose slide has little effect on accuracy).
Having owned over 10 in the last 6 years I am speaking from experience. I ended up changes "sides" and currently own three new Dan Wesson's. The Valor, Vbob and Gaurdian. It's somewhat sad and frustrating to say but the DW 1911's are much nicer pistols and they are priced accordingly. |
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Here is a more detailed thread on my Rail gun...
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=305173 |
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After almost exclusively owning Colt 1911s for 30+ years, I wanted a CCO but there are a couple of things on the Colt I don't particularly care for, mainly the sights. So, I finally gave in and decided to check out the DWs. As soon as I held the DW CCO, I knew I would own one. I've only owned it a few weeks but I've shot it quite a bit, I love this thing. If I include the modifications I've done to any of my Colts, the DW is the least expensive of the bunch and I feel provides the best value. The fit, finish, & quality of the parts on these guns is impressive. Time will tell.
I am of the opinion, anyone in the market for a 1911 in the $1K price range owes it to themselves to at least consider busting their budget a little and check out the DWs. |
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Sig has an external extractor, which I'd much rather have. If SA made an external extractor that was solid, I'd never buy anything else. Traditionalists will poo-poo that change, but I'm not a traditionalist. I'm interested in function.
In what way is the external extractor superior? Every person who owns a 1911 should know how to properly tune your extractor. Takes 5 minutes (6 if Series 80) and will keep your 1911 running like a top indefinitely. I have 3rd gen S&W auto's with the same external extractor set-up they use on their 1911's. No issues, but try removing that EE for cleaning and I guarantee you, you'll see the beauty of the internal one. And if S&W is still using the shim set-up, they are exceedingly difficult to tune yourself. That's a pretty funny joke you said there. If a properly tuned extractor lasted 'indefinitely' then no one who owns a 1911 would need to know how to tune it. Pretty clever. I'm not going to hijack this thread with an extractor tangent. There's nothing wrong with an internal extractor. Some EE guns (S&W and SIG) run well too. |
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Sig has an external extractor, which I'd much rather have. If SA made an external extractor that was solid, I'd never buy anything else. Traditionalists will poo-poo that change, but I'm not a traditionalist. I'm interested in function.
In what way is the external extractor superior? Every person who owns a 1911 should know how to properly tune your extractor. Takes 5 minutes (6 if Series 80) and will keep your 1911 running like a top indefinitely. I have 3rd gen S&W auto's with the same external extractor set-up they use on their 1911's. No issues, but try removing that EE for cleaning and I guarantee you, you'll see the beauty of the internal one. And if S&W is still using the shim set-up, they are exceedingly difficult to tune yourself. That's a pretty funny joke you said there. If a properly tuned extractor lasted 'indefinitely' then no one who owns a 1911 would need to know how to tune it. Pretty clever. I'm not going to hijack this thread with an extractor tangent. There's nothing wrong with an internal extractor. Some EE guns (S&W and SIG) run well too. Lots of EE guns do. Like Glocks, M&Ps, XDs... There are things wrong with an IE, but that's true of every mechanical system. Tradeoffs are part of engineering. I did not say it was 'hopelessly flawed' or I wouldn't carry an IE Springfield every day. And my IE P238 every day. /end |
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Quoted: Quoted: Colt is using the least MIM of any maker, with only the magazine catch, sear, and disconnecter being made of MIM. All other parts are either forged or cast steel. Some models use polymer main spring housings. Most other makers are using more and more MIM. Colt says that next year they expect to about double production so it'll be easier to get a Colt. Colt uses less MIM except for the companies that use less than them....Since DW was one of the options, a little homework is needed here. DW has NO MIM. Easier to get? Haven't had much of an issue getting anything...non-issue The reason I have a DW Valor is because I couldn't find a Colt O1980XSE or SCG. If you look at production numbers from the ATF Colt's MFG is a small time manufacturer. |
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I can attest to the quality of a DW VBOB. I've got one and it's awesome! Comparing it to my Taurus PT1911 is no comparison.
I'd say get the DW. If you're looking for something lowe rpriced, I'd recommend you look at Rock Island Armory. They're getting rave reviews on 1911forum. Ruger's 1911 is getting rave reviews as well. |
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I can attest to the quality of a DW VBOB. I've got one and it's awesome! Comparing it to my Taurus PT1911 is no comparison. I'd say get the DW. If you're looking for something lowe rpriced, I'd recommend you look at Rock Island Armory. They're getting rave reviews on 1911forum. Ruger's 1911 is getting rave reviews as well. Ya know, the SR1911 is what got me thinking about a 1911 again. Good luck finding one from what I understand though, |
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Where are the Dan Wessons made??? I know CZ markets them, but I wish I knew more about the history of the brand and the pistols. NY. Like a common foundry that does forging for other manufacturers? (off to google) ETA: Wesson of Smith and Wesson. Cool. |