Posted: 6/28/2011 10:11:49 AM EDT
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I've got a Nighthawk Talon that was having some FTE malfunctions. Luckily, the malfunctions happened on the range and not in a life or death situation. I decided to send the gun back to Nighthawk to have it looked over. While it was there I wanted them to do a few upgrades such as, S&A mag well, naked slide, and compete perma-cote in black.
I was quoted 6 weeks to complete the pistol with the upgrades and to fix the FTE problem. Well, 6 weeks turned into 14 weeks...which sucked. Also, I was told that the plunger tube had to be restaked, muzzle relief had to be cut on barrel and they installed a new sear....keep in mind this gun has less than 500 rounds through it. I was really questioning why all this had to be done to a practically new $2500 pistol, but got no answers. Also, when I finally got the gun from Nighthawk after 14 weeks, the thumb safety was so damn tight, it had to be engaged/disengaged with two hands...extremely tight fit. At this point I had to ship it back to Nighthawk (on their dime). Now I'm waiting to hear back from them and it's been over 15 weeks since I first sent in the pistol. The thing that pisses me off is, the people I've talked to at Nighthawk seem to think this is normal. Why the hell is this happening on a $2500 pistol and with a supposedly reputable company? Is this normal for custom 1911s? Suggestions? |
Sounds pretty run of the mill for NHC. That's part of the reason I bought a Brown. Not trying to rub that in your face or anything. I had a problem with my Brown right out of the box... Plunger tube came unstaked...
I sent it back to Brown, on my dime, but they fixed it immediately and I had it back in 7 days. Even though I was pissed that there was a problem with my brand new $2500 pistol, they made it right, and sent me a new 7 round mag, a ball cap and a bushing wrench when they sent it back, all gratis. Customer service is a biggie as far as I'm concerned. I wish you luck man. Keep us posted on how you fair. |
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This thread could turn into pages and pages of terrible experiences from any 1911 manufacturer/gunsmith. I sent my springfield to fusion for a little workover. A few months after I got it back, I was having some problems with it. They paid for shipping both ways and fixed the problem at no charge. Unfortunately, during the commute back to me the finish was marred.  They again agreed to fix the problem. I still haven't sent it back in It is a hard pill to swallow when you drop a large amount on a new semi-custom or large amount on gunsmith work and it just doesn't live up to your expectations. You either choose to accept their solutions and enjoy your pistol when it is fixed, or you choose to let the problems ruin your pistol and chalk it up to a learning experience. When the time comes you can spend your money on a different maker. |
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I very sincerely expect that Nighthawk, as a company, will not be around long term. Their customer service and policies and some of the lack of QC that has come out of their product are difficult to stomach from a low-budget gun company and astounding from a high-end gun company.
I'll will never send them another dime. They got me for one pistol, but they won't fool me again. |
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I have had the exact opposite experience. My NH Enforcer was around the 500 mark when it started to have trouble feeding hollow points. Had no issues with FMJ, just JHP. So I called Larry at NH and explained my problem.
Within 5 minutes I had a UPS shipping label in my inbox. Mailed it off and about a week later the gun returned with a improved feed ramp and chamber. The gun is over 2,000 rds now and has not had any issues since. As soon as I got it back I promptly put 100, 230 gr JHP Winchester Rangers though it with no issues. I know that's not astounding but the problem definitely appears to be fixed. They also fixed the thumb safety as it was little to tight and rubbing the finish off. That part of the gun was also refinished. All within a week. Sorry you have had trouble. But NH has not let me down yet. |
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It's time we consumers put the manufacturers' feet to the fire when they ship us crap or don't resolve problems.
Too many of us make excuses for the manufacturers and are willing to fix our own defective guns at our own cost because many believe "it is to be expected" when you buy a 1911. |
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I very sincerely expect that Nighthawk, as a company, will not be around long term. Their customer service and policies and some of the lack of QC that has come out of their product are difficult to stomach from a low-budget gun company and astounding from a high-end gun company. I'll will never send them another dime. They got me for one pistol, but they won't fool me again. ^ I've seen this sentiment in many threads, I also remember yours. There's a pic of a nighthawk frame that left the factory in a condition that I thought was reprehensible.
There was no excuse for something like that on a custom 1911 with that price tag. |
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I wanted to add this little piece of info that I forgot to mention...when I called NH to tell them that the thumb safety was too tight, the guy I was talking to had the audacity to ask if there was anyone in my town that worked on 1911s that could take a look at it.
I promptly said, nope, I live in BFE and I wouldn't take my gun to one even if there was, especially considering the NH warranty. Also another update as of this evening... I just recieved an email stating that my pistol is back in the shop and something "very strange" happened and they would let me know what happened soon. 
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Quoted: WTF OVER?I wanted to add this little piece of info that I forgot to mention...when I called NH to tell them that the thumb safety was too tight, the guy I was talking to had the audacity to ask if there was anyone in my town that worked on 1911s that could take a look at it. I promptly said, nope, I live in BFE and I wouldn't take my gun to one even if there was, especially considering the NH warranty. Also another update as of this evening... I just recieved an email stating that my pistol is back in the shop and something "very strange" happened and they would let me know what happened soon. |
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WTF OVER?
I wanted to add this little piece of info that I forgot to mention...when I called NH to tell them that the thumb safety was too tight, the guy I was talking to had the audacity to ask if there was anyone in my town that worked on 1911s that could take a look at it. I promptly said, nope, I live in BFE and I wouldn't take my gun to one even if there was, especially considering the NH warranty. Also another update as of this evening... I just recieved an email stating that my pistol is back in the shop and something "very strange" happened and they would let me know what happened soon. Yeah this thread just got tagged 
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bummer for the OP. i had thought about getting a 'hawk, being made in Texas and all but not any more. I think you have something crossed. Nighthawk is based out of Berryville Arkansas. sorry, i was thinking of sti. my 10 yo was beating on me about ditching school cheer for non-competitive cheer(^ expense!) |
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this isnt the first time of heard of stuff like this from NH. Yep. I've really enjoyed their guns and working with them in the past, and have defended them on this and other forums more than once. But my most recent build has gone from 12 weeks to 20 weeks and I still don't have it yet. Every time I call it's a different excuse. Pretty sure this will be the last time I deal with them. |
| I was going to wait to post details of my Nighthawk testing until it was complete, but I'll let a few details slip here. When I called Nighthawk, Ed Brown, and Wilson, to chat them up about their products, it was Nighthawks customer service that made the sale. The folks at Ed Brown were nothing short of rude. No time to answer questions, simply "Buy it or don't", so I didn't. Wilson was somewhere in the middle. Didn't know much about their own products and didn't really care to check into it. Finally spoke with Greg at Nighthawk. He aims to please. Answered all of my questions with legitimate answers, so I went with a Nighthawk GRP. They originally told me 10 weeks to get the pistol, but it shipped in around 4. So far I've got nearly 1k rounds through it of a variety of FMJ and JHP ammo, with 2 FTFs. This is using 4 different kinds of magazines with only one cleaning around the 500 round mark. I think the FTFs were ammo related as it was some old, slightly corroded stuff from the basement that I just wanted to see if it would work. Although my evaluation of the pistol is far from over, I have nothing but good things to say about Nighthawk at this point. |
| I have two Nighthawks and I love 'em. Nighthawk has the best customer service I have ever dealt with. Wilson Combat was also good in my dealings, but all the guys I dealt with are at Nighthawk now except Ron Phillips, Ruger has a great customer service too in my .22 pistol experience. |
| My Nighthawk GRP had an FTE..ONCE. I called Nighthawk and they insisted I send it in. I printed out the label they emailed me and literally 3 days later I had the pistol back in my hand and 4,000 rounds later I could not be any happier. When I call NH for even stupid questions like holsters etc they are always a class act. Sorry to hear you are having such a problem. |
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Found this:
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=58784&page=1&pp=10&highlight=dominator+frame 
That nighthawk left the factory like that.
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Found this: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=58784&page=1&pp=10&highlight=dominator+frame http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg That nighthawk left the factory like that.
Damn...
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Found this: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=58784&page=1&pp=10&highlight=dominator+frame http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg That nighthawk left the factory like that.
Ouch! I'd be beyond pissed. |
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Found this: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=58784&page=1&pp=10&highlight=dominator+frame http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg That nighthawk left the factory like that.
Ouch! I'd be beyond pissed. Me too, but let's be honest here, every company will produce a lemon at some point. In my life I've learned that even the best products will eventually fail, so you'd better buy from a company that will take care of you in those instances. I'd be more concerned with how they treated the person that ended up with that pistol. I'd be willing to bet that it was replaced immediately and that they were well compensated for their inconvenience. |
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My Vickers has never had a single failure and many guys that I know with NH have had great results. They had issue a number of years back but I haven't seen much lately about issues. My EB KC was the worst 1911 I ever owned...
IMHO Les Baer is the best value in the semi market... Nothing fancy, just great hard use 1911's that run. |
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Found this: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=58784&page=1&pp=10&highlight=dominator+frame http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg That nighthawk left the factory like that.
Sand cuts. That's an extra reliability feature. |
| I don't own a Nighthawk, but my local dealer had a new one ordered in for a customer. It was a thing of beauty. The action was like two pieces of glass on oil. With that being said I wonder if NH is getting too busy? Didn't Wilson have the same problem a while back? |
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Found this: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=58784&page=1&pp=10&highlight=dominator+frame http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg That nighthawk left the factory like that.
Ouch! I'd be beyond pissed. Me too, but let's be honest here, every company will produce a lemon at some point. In my life I've learned that even the best products will eventually fail, so you'd better buy from a company that will take care of you in those instances. I'd be more concerned with how they treated the person that ended up with that pistol. I'd be willing to bet that it was replaced immediately and that they were well compensated for their inconvenience.
If we are going to be totally honest here; crap like that shouldn't ever leave the factory to be shipped to and foisted off on a paying customer. Whether a Nighthawk Custom, or a Taurus, that pistol is an abomination. "They'll take care of you" is no substitute for them having taken "care of you" in the first instance, when they have already shipped an obviously defective turd to you. IMO there has been far too much "forgiveness" and not enough holding of the manufacturer's feet to the fire when the hand you a turd for which you paid them big bucks and for which you have had high expectations, and rightfully so. Once you receive a turd from a manufacturer instead of the pearl you were lead to believe you would be getting, the entire buying experience is ruined and the process of trying to get a well made, and reliable pistol takes over. Once the customer receives a turd from the factory, the entire ownership experience becomes different than what was reasonably expected by the customer. It's disgraceful and not to be excused IMO. |
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Found this: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=58784&page=1&pp=10&highlight=dominator+frame http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg That nighthawk left the factory like that.
Ouch! I'd be beyond pissed. Me too, but let's be honest here, every company will produce a lemon at some point. In my life I've learned that even the best products will eventually fail, so you'd better buy from a company that will take care of you in those instances. I'd be more concerned with how they treated the person that ended up with that pistol. I'd be willing to bet that it was replaced immediately and that they were well compensated for their inconvenience. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg If we are going to be totally honest here; crap like that shouldn't ever leave the factory to be shipped to and foisted off on a paying customer. Whether a Nighthawk Custom, or a Taurus, that pistol is an abomination. "They'll take care of you" is no substitute for them having taken "care of you" in the first instance, when they have already shipped an obviously defective turd to you. IMO there has been far too much "forgiveness" and not enough holding of the manufacturer's feet to the fire when the hand you a turd for which you paid them big bucks and for which you have had high expectations, and rightfully so. Once you receive a turd from a manufacturer instead of the pearl you were lead to believe you would be getting, the entire buying experience is ruined and the process of trying to get a well made, and reliable pistol takes over. Once the customer receives a turd from the factory, the entire ownership experience becomes different than what was reasonably expected by the customer. It's disgraceful and not to be excused IMO. I agree with you, that shouldn't have left the factory, but show me a company that has never let a lemon out and I'll show you a company that doesn't sell any product. Being a dealer and collector, I buy A LOT of guns. I've had lemons from some companies that are worshipped around here(LMT, Spikes, etc). That doesn't mean they make an inferior product; it means that they are human and make errors. Point being LMT stood behind their product and had it swapped out immediately. Products earn the customer; customer service keeps them. IMHO |
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My Vickers has never had a single failure and many guys that I know with NH have had great results. They had issue a number of years back but I haven't seen much lately about issues. My EB KC was the worst 1911 I ever owned... IMHO Les Baer is the best value in the semi market... Nothing fancy, just great hard use 1911's that run. I have a Nighthawk Vickers Tactical and it too is flawless. |
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Found this: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=58784&page=1&pp=10&highlight=dominator+frame http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg That nighthawk left the factory like that.
Ouch! I'd be beyond pissed. Me too, but let's be honest here, every company will produce a lemon at some point. In my life I've learned that even the best products will eventually fail, so you'd better buy from a company that will take care of you in those instances. I'd be more concerned with how they treated the person that ended up with that pistol. I'd be willing to bet that it was replaced immediately and that they were well compensated for their inconvenience. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/Nighthawkframe.jpg If we are going to be totally honest here; crap like that shouldn't ever leave the factory to be shipped to and foisted off on a paying customer. Whether a Nighthawk Custom, or a Taurus, that pistol is an abomination. "They'll take care of you" is no substitute for them having taken "care of you" in the first instance, when they have already shipped an obviously defective turd to you. IMO there has been far too much "forgiveness" and not enough holding of the manufacturer's feet to the fire when the hand you a turd for which you paid them big bucks and for which you have had high expectations, and rightfully so. Once you receive a turd from a manufacturer instead of the pearl you were lead to believe you would be getting, the entire buying experience is ruined and the process of trying to get a well made, and reliable pistol takes over. Once the customer receives a turd from the factory, the entire ownership experience becomes different than what was reasonably expected by the customer. It's disgraceful and not to be excused IMO. I agree with you, that shouldn't have left the factory, but show me a company that has never let a lemon out and I'll show you a company that doesn't sell any product. Being a dealer and collector, I buy A LOT of guns. I've had lemons from some companies that are worshipped around here(LMT, Spikes, etc). That doesn't mean they make an inferior product; it means that they are human and make errors. Point being LMT stood behind their product and had it swapped out immediately. Products earn the customer; customer service keeps them. IMHO I cant imagine a scenario in which a guy installing the parts in that frame didn't notice that chewed up mag well. Either his boss has told him it is fine to build such a frame or the builder in question didn't care one way or the other in my opinion. |
Being from a manufacturing and quality control background- when you are mass producing a product in large quantities and a few lemons get out- your still within your fallout rate for bad product versus good product. Take for example a glock- Sig- Hk- ETC... But when you have a product that is custom made, assembled, and then fit and finished. It makes the allowable tolerance of a bad product pretty much 0 % and add to that the monies being paid by the customers to have a 1911 that better oust a 600 dollar Taurus? and doesn't. Then your going to have some very pissed off customers before too long  Because what it comes down to- is the customer is giving the company thousands of dollars for a perfect product- and the company is advertising a perfect product to justify the thousands of dollars being paid... There is no room for give and take with these principles..
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Being from a manufacturing and quality control background- when you are mass producing a product in large quantities and a few lemons get out- your still within your fallout rate for bad product versus good product. Take for example a glock- Sig- Hk- ETC... But when you have a product that is custom made, assembled, and then fit and finished. It makes the allowable tolerance of a bad product pretty much 0 % and add to that the monies being paid by the customers to have a 1911 that better oust a 600 dollar Taurus? and doesn't. Then your going to have some very pissed off customers before too long Because what it comes down to- is the customer is giving the company thousands of dollars for a perfect product- and the company is advertising a perfect product to justify the thousands of dollars being paid... There is no room for give and take with these principles..This is exactly what I was thinking. I honestly don't think they have any sort of QC at all, considering the thumb safety is one of the most obvious things to check on a 1911. I guess reliability and quality is NOT one of the things I'm paying the extra $2000 for. Maybe it would make a good display piece. |
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Being from a manufacturing and quality control background- when you are mass producing a product in large quantities and a few lemons get out- your still within your fallout rate for bad product versus good product. Take for example a glock- Sig- Hk- ETC... But when you have a product that is custom made, assembled, and then fit and finished. It makes the allowable tolerance of a bad product pretty much 0 % and add to that the monies being paid by the customers to have a 1911 that better oust a 600 dollar Taurus? and doesn't. Then your going to have some very pissed off customers before too long Because what it comes down to- is the customer is giving the company thousands of dollars for a perfect product- and the company is advertising a perfect product to justify the thousands of dollars being paid... There is no room for give and take with these principles..Yup, When you go through the expense of ordering a product from a company that calls itself Nighthawk Custom, you have the reasonable expectation that you will not receive a pistol from them that looks like it was slapped together in a cave in Pakistan by a blind 8 year old opium addict. Sometimes the emperor really doesn't have any clothes on. |
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Being from a manufacturing and quality control background- when you are mass producing a product in large quantities and a few lemons get out- your still within your fallout rate for bad product versus good product. Take for example a glock- Sig- Hk- ETC... But when you have a product that is custom made, assembled, and then fit and finished. It makes the allowable tolerance of a bad product pretty much 0 % and add to that the monies being paid by the customers to have a 1911 that better oust a 600 dollar Taurus? and doesn't. Then your going to have some very pissed off customers before too long Because what it comes down to- is the customer is giving the company thousands of dollars for a perfect product- and the company is advertising a perfect product to justify the thousands of dollars being paid... There is no room for give and take with these principles..Yup, When you go through the expense of ordering a product from a company that calls itself Nighthawk Custom, you have the reasonable expectation that you will not receive a pistol from them that looks like it was slapped together in a cave in Pakistan by a blind 8 year old opium addict. Sometimes the emperor really doesn't have any clothes on. This makes me think I should go back in that thread and show the other* picture, this wasn't the only time a "wait, what?" left NH "custom"s factory.
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Being from a manufacturing and quality control background- when you are mass producing a product in large quantities and a few lemons get out- your still within your fallout rate for bad product versus good product. Take for example a glock- Sig- Hk- ETC... But when you have a product that is custom made, assembled, and then fit and finished. It makes the allowable tolerance of a bad product pretty much 0 % and add to that the monies being paid by the customers to have a 1911 that better oust a 600 dollar Taurus? and doesn't. Then your going to have some very pissed off customers before too long Because what it comes down to- is the customer is giving the company thousands of dollars for a perfect product- and the company is advertising a perfect product to justify the thousands of dollars being paid... There is no room for give and take with these principles..Yup, When you go through the expense of ordering a product from a company that calls itself Nighthawk Custom, you have the reasonable expectation that you will not receive a pistol from them that looks like it was slapped together in a cave in Pakistan by a blind 8 year old opium addict. Sometimes the emperor really doesn't have any clothes on. This makes me think I should go back in that thread and show the other* picture, this wasn't the only time a "wait, what?" left NH "custom"s factory. Please do post the pic. |
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Being from a manufacturing and quality control background- when you are mass producing a product in large quantities and a few lemons get out- your still within your fallout rate for bad product versus good product. Take for example a glock- Sig- Hk- ETC... But when you have a product that is custom made, assembled, and then fit and finished. It makes the allowable tolerance of a bad product pretty much 0 % and add to that the monies being paid by the customers to have a 1911 that better oust a 600 dollar Taurus? and doesn't. Then your going to have some very pissed off customers before too long Because what it comes down to- is the customer is giving the company thousands of dollars for a perfect product- and the company is advertising a perfect product to justify the thousands of dollars being paid... There is no room for give and take with these principles..Yup, When you go through the expense of ordering a product from a company that calls itself Nighthawk Custom, you have the reasonable expectation that you will not receive a pistol from them that looks like it was slapped together in a cave in Pakistan by a blind 8 year old opium addict. Sometimes the emperor really doesn't have any clothes on. This makes me think I should go back in that thread and show the other* picture, this wasn't the only time a "wait, what?" left NH "custom"s factory. Please do post the pic. Yes, I think that would be a great idea. |
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I have 2 freinds with bad NH's. Both have been back to the factory and both still have the same problems. they both asked me to shoot the guns for them just in case it was them and not the guns. It was the guns.
While his NH was at the factory, he bought a lesser priced 1911 and it has run 100%. He want to dump the NH, but if he discloses the problems with it, he's gonna take a bath on it. I told him to ask NH for a new gun to replace the bad one. |
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I have 2 freinds with bad NH's. Both have been back to the factory and both still have the same problems. they both asked me to shoot the guns for them just in case it was them and not the guns. It was the guns. While his NH was at the factory, he bought a lesser priced 1911 and it has run 100%. He want to dump the NH, but if he discloses the problems with it, he's gonna take a bath on it. I told him to ask NH for a new gun to replace the bad one. Can you describe the problems with the guns? |
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All of my NHs have been flawless. A good friend of mine picked up a T3 Comp that shot low left...REALLY low left from the factory. We went back and looked at the test target...low...left.
He shipped it back..they had no idea wtf was wrong. It's supposed to be fixed but it's up for sale at the shop he used to work at...long story |
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Eh, I had a Kimber TLE that Kimber worked over to correct failures to feed by replacing the barrel...new barrel "fitted" and when I got it back, the barrel didn't have rifling in about 2/3rds of it.
I called and their CS people actually asked "well...did it shoot" after I explained that the barrel lacked rifling
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Eh, I had a Kimber TLE that Kimber worked over to correct failures to feed by replacing the barrel...new barrel "fitted" and when I got it back, the barrel didn't have rifling in about 2/3rds of it. I called and their CS people actually asked "well...did it shoot" after I explained that the barrel lacked rifling I guess people just don't give a shit anymore. What's funny about this situation is about 1 week before my problems, my BIL bought a new stainless Colt Commander and the damn front sight fell off after the 3rd round fired. |
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I have 2 freinds with bad NH's. Both have been back to the factory and both still have the same problems. they both asked me to shoot the guns for them just in case it was them and not the guns. It was the guns. While his NH was at the factory, he bought a lesser priced 1911 and it has run 100%. He want to dump the NH, but if he discloses the problems with it, he's gonna take a bath on it. I told him to ask NH for a new gun to replace the bad one. Can you describe the problems with the guns? one was a commander style. I think a Talon?? it would fail to feed on the last round of a mag frequently. the other is a full size that has feeding and ejection problems. Trips, wilsons, checkmates,and asst other mags tried have no solved the problems in either gun. They are really dissapointed in the guns |
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I seen the pictures of those chatter marks left by the forging process on another website, the rest of the story was that Nighthawk replaced the frames on that 1911 and another one that had the same marks. I read that thread and Nighthawk Custom did not replace those crappy, Paki made, looking frames. They did give a dissertation on how nobody is perfect and they will try to do better in the future though.
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