Posted: 5/2/2011 11:45:48 AM EDT
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I am not sure if I have a problem or operator error, as this is my first 1911, and I havent even had it out to the range yet. But I have taken it apart, cleaned the factory grease and replaced it with Rem Oil and the like, just a general cleaning. I have been toying with the idea of replacing the slide stop with a large one, as the current one is small, and a little hard to operate. But to figure it out I have been Locking the slide back and doing some drills to get used to the gun and dropping the slide, and I am starting to get used to the factory slide stop.
So, with no magazine in the gun, no ammo in the same room, I am dropping the slide and I noticed 3 separate times that when the slide was all the way forward that the hammer was in the "decocked" position, I known that the 1911 is a SAO pistol, but there is a position that the hammer sits in between on the firing pin, and cocked back, so that is the position that it is in. I can no reproduce this by doing anything specific, my finger is off the trigger, and I am not touching the hammer. Ideas...? For reference I have a Kimber Tactical Entry II, and please keep the "You should just buy a Springfield" to yourself. |
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You're talking about it stopping at half-cock. Sounds like the sear or hammer (or both) are worn. Was it doing this before you took it apart? This. Don't shoot it until you get this fixed. Also, it's not a good idea to release the slide on 1911s on an empty chamber. Can cause wear to the FCG. You can "ride" the slide forward, but don't hit the release and let it fly home on it's own. Copied from the Springfield Armory 1911A1 Manual.
If slide is already in “locked back” position: 1. Point gun in safe direction. 2. Press magazine release button to remove magazine. 3. From top and rear, carefully inspect chamber to make sure it is empty. 4. Hold slide, disengage slide stop, ease slide forward. Notice: The slide of a 1911-A1 pistol should never be released on an empty chamber; especially one which has had an action job. Releasing the slide on an empty chamber causes damage to the breech face on the barrel and undue stress on all action parts, including the hammer and the sear. This will ruin the action job performed on your pistol. 5. Carefully lower hammer as described in the HAMMER LOWERING section. (Page 22) Pistol is not empty or unloaded until the chamber is empty and the magazine removed. |
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Don't drop the slide frequently. I only do it after i do trigger work on the gun to test for any issues.
The common cause of this is either trigger bounce, not enough sear spring tension or a worn sear/hammer. While dropping the slide on an empty chamber is usually considered bad, here's a few tests that I do when I replace a sear spring and/or do a trigger job. - Lock the slide back. - Grip the 1911 so that the grip safety is pressed down. - With your other hand, hold the trigger to the forward position. - Drop the slide using the slide lock. If the hammer dropped doing this test, then it's an issue with the sear spring tension, sear spring installation, or a hammer/sear engagement issue. If you are not familiar with how to correct the hammer/sear engagement, take it to a gunsmith. This is not a part to mess with if you don't know what you are doing. If the hammer didn't drop in the test above, repeat the test, but don't hold the trigger forward. If the hammer falls during this test, then you are experiencing "trigger bounce." This is fairly easy to correct, by adding tension to the center leg of the sear spring. Another thing you may notice is that when you adjust the center leg tension, the trigger reset would be more pronounced. Last test I do is with the hammer down, press and hold the trigger as if you had just fired it, rack and release the slide. The hammer should not follow. After passing the tests above, i load a magazine with dummy rounds, lock the slide back, then release on the dummy round. The hammer should not fall when doing this. The above is also shown on the Wilson COmbat Gunsmithing video. |
Hammer should not follow slide period. As mentioned above take it easy on dropping slide on empty chamber it could prove troublesome for sear/disconnector/ extractor. For what it's worth I try to never drop slide using release just habit but that's another thread debate  Take it to a smith or send it to kimber.
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Don't drop the slide frequently. I only do it after i do trigger work on the gun to test for any issues. The common cause of this is either trigger bounce, not enough sear spring tension or a worn sear/hammer. While dropping the slide on an empty chamber is usually considered bad, here's a few tests that I do when I replace a sear spring and/or do a trigger job. - Lock the slide back. - Grip the 1911 so that the grip safety is pressed down. - With your other hand, hold the trigger to the forward position. - Drop the slide using the slide lock. If the hammer dropped doing this test, then it's an issue with the sear spring tension, sear spring installation, or a hammer/sear engagement issue. If you are not familiar with how to correct the hammer/sear engagement, take it to a gunsmith. This is not a part to mess with if you don't know what you are doing. If the hammer didn't drop in the test above, repeat the test, but don't hold the trigger forward. If the hammer falls during this test, then you are experiencing "trigger bounce." This is fairly easy to correct, by adding tension to the center leg of the sear spring. Another thing you may notice is that when you adjust the center leg tension, the trigger reset would be more pronounced. Last test I do is with the hammer down, press and hold the trigger as if you had just fired it, rack and release the slide. The hammer should not follow. After passing the tests above, i load a magazine with dummy rounds, lock the slide back, then release on the dummy round. The hammer should not fall when doing this. The above is also shown on the Wilson COmbat Gunsmithing video. I tried all of these tests a few times and 100% functionality. I will rephrase some of my original post. The gun is brand new, only Kimber and my dealer have fired it so far, and my dealer only fired it to get a stupid spent case for MDSP. I have completely cleaned it, and when I took it apart beyond a basic field strip I removed the Main Spring, Grip Safety, Safety, and Main Spring Housing. I did not remove the trigger, hammer, shear, disconnecter etc. I did not feel comfortable going that far, and removing the components that I did allowed me to clean the components that I did not clean. I used compressed are to blow dry the entire gun, internals and all to get rid of excessive grease. I was dropping it on an empty chamber, and I have stopped doing that, the above failure occurred 3 times out of about 60 slide drops, and the hammer never dropped all the way to the firing pin to my knowledge. The pistol has a factory match trigger with a pull of ~4.5 lbs. I also replaced the recoil spring with a 18.5lb spring and also replaced the firing pin spring with an XP one. I am thinking this was noob operator error...  YES?
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Don't drop the slide frequently. I only do it after i do trigger work on the gun to test for any issues. The common cause of this is either trigger bounce, not enough sear spring tension or a worn sear/hammer. While dropping the slide on an empty chamber is usually considered bad, here's a few tests that I do when I replace a sear spring and/or do a trigger job. - Lock the slide back. - Grip the 1911 so that the grip safety is pressed down. - With your other hand, hold the trigger to the forward position. - Drop the slide using the slide lock. If the hammer dropped doing this test, then it's an issue with the sear spring tension, sear spring installation, or a hammer/sear engagement issue. If you are not familiar with how to correct the hammer/sear engagement, take it to a gunsmith. This is not a part to mess with if you don't know what you are doing. If the hammer didn't drop in the test above, repeat the test, but don't hold the trigger forward. If the hammer falls during this test, then you are experiencing "trigger bounce." This is fairly easy to correct, by adding tension to the center leg of the sear spring. Another thing you may notice is that when you adjust the center leg tension, the trigger reset would be more pronounced. Last test I do is with the hammer down, press and hold the trigger as if you had just fired it, rack and release the slide. The hammer should not follow. After passing the tests above, i load a magazine with dummy rounds, lock the slide back, then release on the dummy round. The hammer should not fall when doing this. The above is also shown on the Wilson COmbat Gunsmithing video. I tried all of these tests a few times and 100% functionality. I will rephrase some of my original post. The gun is brand new, only Kimber and my dealer have fired it so far, and my dealer only fired it to get a stupid spent case for MDSP. I have completely cleaned it, and when I took it apart beyond a basic field strip I removed the Main Spring, Grip Safety, Safety, and Main Spring Housing. I did not remove the trigger, hammer, shear, disconnecter etc. I did not feel comfortable going that far, and removing the components that I did allowed me to clean the components that I did not clean. I used compressed are to blow dry the entire gun, internals and all to get rid of excessive grease. I was dropping it on an empty chamber, and I have stopped doing that, the above failure occurred 3 times out of about 60 slide drops, and the hammer never dropped all the way to the firing pin to my knowledge. The pistol has a factory match trigger with a pull of ~4.5 lbs. I also replaced the recoil spring with a 18.5lb spring and also replaced the firing pin spring with an XP one. I am thinking this was noob operator error... YES?it is possible that the main spring is not seated correctly on the sear. there are several good videos on you tube showing how to completely disassemble and reassemble the gun. you might want to watch them. |
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Don't drop the slide frequently. I only do it after i do trigger work on the gun to test for any issues. The common cause of this is either trigger bounce, not enough sear spring tension or a worn sear/hammer. While dropping the slide on an empty chamber is usually considered bad, here's a few tests that I do when I replace a sear spring and/or do a trigger job. - Lock the slide back. - Grip the 1911 so that the grip safety is pressed down. - With your other hand, hold the trigger to the forward position. - Drop the slide using the slide lock. If the hammer dropped doing this test, then it's an issue with the sear spring tension, sear spring installation, or a hammer/sear engagement issue. If you are not familiar with how to correct the hammer/sear engagement, take it to a gunsmith. This is not a part to mess with if you don't know what you are doing. If the hammer didn't drop in the test above, repeat the test, but don't hold the trigger forward. If the hammer falls during this test, then you are experiencing "trigger bounce." This is fairly easy to correct, by adding tension to the center leg of the sear spring. Another thing you may notice is that when you adjust the center leg tension, the trigger reset would be more pronounced. Last test I do is with the hammer down, press and hold the trigger as if you had just fired it, rack and release the slide. The hammer should not follow. After passing the tests above, i load a magazine with dummy rounds, lock the slide back, then release on the dummy round. The hammer should not fall when doing this. The above is also shown on the Wilson COmbat Gunsmithing video. I tried all of these tests a few times and 100% functionality. I will rephrase some of my original post. The gun is brand new, only Kimber and my dealer have fired it so far, and my dealer only fired it to get a stupid spent case for MDSP. I have completely cleaned it, and when I took it apart beyond a basic field strip I removed the Main Spring, Grip Safety, Safety, and Main Spring Housing. I did not remove the trigger, hammer, shear, disconnecter etc. I did not feel comfortable going that far, and removing the components that I did allowed me to clean the components that I did not clean. I used compressed are to blow dry the entire gun, internals and all to get rid of excessive grease. I was dropping it on an empty chamber, and I have stopped doing that, the above failure occurred 3 times out of about 60 slide drops, and the hammer never dropped all the way to the firing pin to my knowledge. The pistol has a factory match trigger with a pull of ~4.5 lbs. I also replaced the recoil spring with a 18.5lb spring and also replaced the firing pin spring with an XP one. I am thinking this was noob operator error... YES?3 out of 60 might be trigger bounce, but most likely user error. don't drop the slide on an empty chamber if you can avoid it, especially 60 times. If it's a new gun, then why did you replace the recoil spring with a heavier one? 5" guns use 16# springs. no need for an XP firing pin spring since it has a Swartz safety (firing pin block) in it. |
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Don't drop the slide frequently. I only do it after i do trigger work on the gun to test for any issues. The common cause of this is either trigger bounce, not enough sear spring tension or a worn sear/hammer. While dropping the slide on an empty chamber is usually considered bad, here's a few tests that I do when I replace a sear spring and/or do a trigger job. - Lock the slide back. - Grip the 1911 so that the grip safety is pressed down. - With your other hand, hold the trigger to the forward position. - Drop the slide using the slide lock. If the hammer dropped doing this test, then it's an issue with the sear spring tension, sear spring installation, or a hammer/sear engagement issue. If you are not familiar with how to correct the hammer/sear engagement, take it to a gunsmith. This is not a part to mess with if you don't know what you are doing. If the hammer didn't drop in the test above, repeat the test, but don't hold the trigger forward. If the hammer falls during this test, then you are experiencing "trigger bounce." This is fairly easy to correct, by adding tension to the center leg of the sear spring. Another thing you may notice is that when you adjust the center leg tension, the trigger reset would be more pronounced. Last test I do is with the hammer down, press and hold the trigger as if you had just fired it, rack and release the slide. The hammer should not follow. After passing the tests above, i load a magazine with dummy rounds, lock the slide back, then release on the dummy round. The hammer should not fall when doing this. The above is also shown on the Wilson COmbat Gunsmithing video. I tried all of these tests a few times and 100% functionality. I will rephrase some of my original post. The gun is brand new, only Kimber and my dealer have fired it so far, and my dealer only fired it to get a stupid spent case for MDSP. I have completely cleaned it, and when I took it apart beyond a basic field strip I removed the Main Spring, Grip Safety, Safety, and Main Spring Housing. I did not remove the trigger, hammer, shear, disconnecter etc. I did not feel comfortable going that far, and removing the components that I did allowed me to clean the components that I did not clean. I used compressed are to blow dry the entire gun, internals and all to get rid of excessive grease. I was dropping it on an empty chamber, and I have stopped doing that, the above failure occurred 3 times out of about 60 slide drops, and the hammer never dropped all the way to the firing pin to my knowledge. The pistol has a factory match trigger with a pull of ~4.5 lbs. I also replaced the recoil spring with a 18.5lb spring and also replaced the firing pin spring with an XP one. I am thinking this was noob operator error... YES?it is possible that the main spring is not seated correctly on the sear. there are several good videos on you tube showing how to completely disassemble and reassemble the gun. you might want to watch them. I did that. I watched some very good videos on YouTube prior to even buying the gun... |
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I've never really understood the compulsion to replace all kinds of stuff on a new gun absent any reason to do so. Life was simpler before the Internet when people just went to the range, quarry or back 40 and shot it. With any pistol, and perhaps in particular with a 1911, don't fix it unless it is broke or unless you need to make a change for a valid use related need. And if you make changes, make them one at a time.
There is also no need to strip the pistol beyond basic field stripping, especially when it is new. Mil surplus packed with cosmoline for long term storage is different, but that's not the case here. With that in mind it's possible it was not reassembled properly or you bent/changed the tension on the spring. It's also possible the stronger recoil spring and increased slide velocity is bouncing things more than was the case at the factory when it was assembled and checked. It is afterall a system and a stronger recoil spring is not always a great idea- especially when it is not needed. You could mess with it some more but at this point you'd be better off taking it back to the dealer so that he can either diagnose it (if he's qualified) or send it back to Kimber for warranty work (ideally with the original parts and no signs of the goober mod efforts). 3 out of 60 is too much as hammer following should never happen. |
| I am going to get some dummy rounds and put the original springs back in the gun, and retry, prior to shooting. I dont plan to replace any more parts, and will go to my gunsmith if the issue persists, again prior to firing and with my booger picker very far away from the trigger. |
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Heavier recoil spring and dropping it on an empty chamber is the likely fault. On an old GI 1911 with a pull of 6-8 lbs and a 16 lb recoil spring, you'd get away with it, with a 1911 using a heavier then normal spring and a light trigger, you didn't do it any good. If you try it with snapcaps or a empty case loaded over a bullet that is fed from the mag, I'd bet you'd see nothing amiss.
Any why, why do people immediately "fix" a frikkin gun by changing parts before they even shoot the damn thing? The biggest downfall of the 1911 is that it's the Holley carb of the gun world. |
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Quoted:Any why, why do people immediately "fix" a frikkin gun by changing parts before they even shoot the damn thing? The biggest downfall of the 1911 is that it's the Holley carb of the gun world. Good analogy.
Hmmm...I wonder how fast my 1911 would run with a 4 barrel Holley carb and an Edelbrock manifold installed.... |
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Quoted:Any why, why do people immediately "fix" a frikkin gun by changing parts before they even shoot the damn thing? The biggest downfall of the 1911 is that it's the Holley carb of the gun world. Good analogy.
Hmmm...I wonder how fast my 1911 would run with a 4 barrel Holley carb and an Edelbrock manifold installed.... I want to Turbo my 1911, so kill me... I am not new to the gun world, had a lot of pistols and rifles, but I am new to 1911s, and prior to purchasing I did a lot or reading, watched videos on how to take it apart, how to change parts, and then reread everything both in threads and on some respectable websites by respectable gunsmiths or competition shooters, or atleast when I read them they sounded respectable. So the bottom line I got from all my reading was that you should swap the recoil spring for a heavier one to ensure positive feed with all ammo, and then they recommended a heaver firing pin spring has some logic but I forgot what it was. The things I read also suggested to leave most of the stuff in my gun alone, warning to stay away from large heavy "extended" slide releases. I also read nothing that warned of dropping the slide on an empty chamber, I know this isn't a good thing to do, but didn't think it was a horribly terrible thing to do as some are making it out to be, either way I will get some dummies and stop dropping it on an empty chamber. SOOOO.... can someone direct me to a good place to learn more about 1911s, because I like mine, even though I have yet to shoot it, and I want to learn more. |
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Quoted:Any why, why do people immediately "fix" a frikkin gun by changing parts before they even shoot the damn thing? The biggest downfall of the 1911 is that it's the Holley carb of the gun world. Good analogy.
Hmmm...I wonder how fast my 1911 would run with a 4 barrel Holley carb and an Edelbrock manifold installed.... I want to Turbo my 1911, so kill me... It just may if you do something wrong. |
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Quoted:Any why, why do people immediately "fix" a frikkin gun by changing parts before they even shoot the damn thing? The biggest downfall of the 1911 is that it's the Holley carb of the gun world. Good analogy.
Hmmm...I wonder how fast my 1911 would run with a 4 barrel Holley carb and an Edelbrock manifold installed.... I want to Turbo my 1911, so kill me... It just may if you do something wrong. Yes I know I should turn all my guns in to the local PD, because guns are unsafe and all guns hurt anyone that touch them. Thanks for your input... 
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Quoted:Any why, why do people immediately "fix" a frikkin gun by changing parts before they even shoot the damn thing? The biggest downfall of the 1911 is that it's the Holley carb of the gun world. Good analogy.
Hmmm...I wonder how fast my 1911 would run with a 4 barrel Holley carb and an Edelbrock manifold installed.... I want to Turbo my 1911, so kill me... I am not new to the gun world, had a lot of pistols and rifles, but I am new to 1911s, and prior to purchasing I did a lot or reading, watched videos on how to take it apart, how to change parts, and then reread everything both in threads and on some respectable websites by respectable gunsmiths or competition shooters, or atleast when I read them they sounded respectable. So the bottom line I got from all my reading was that you should swap the recoil spring for a heavier one to ensure positive feed with all ammo, and then they recommended a heaver firing pin spring has some logic but I forgot what it was. The things I read also suggested to leave most of the stuff in my gun alone, warning to stay away from large heavy "extended" slide releases. I also read nothing that warned of dropping the slide on an empty chamber, I know this isn't a good thing to do, but didn't think it was a horribly terrible thing to do as some are making it out to be, either way I will get some dummies and stop dropping it on an empty chamber. SOOOO.... can someone direct me to a good place to learn more about 1911s, because I like mine, even though I have yet to shoot it, and I want to learn more. Putting in a heavier recoil spring does not make a 1911 more reliable, it is recommended if you are running higher pressure ammo and even then, it's a locked breach firearm and the barrel is locked until pressures drop. Unless you are running a lot of +P ammo, a 16-16.5 lb spring is fine. What it does compensate for is those that never change the springs out when they shrink in length 1/2-3/4 of an inch which is a good rule of thumb that it's time to replace it. [compare it to a new one, it's a very quick and easy way, especially if you are unsure of the round count] It also allows the firearm to strip a round from the mag with more force but at the same time, it alters the timing because of the faster slide forward speed. It's a balancing act and one, if the firearm is reliable with the standard spring weight, that is typically not needed with standard power ammo [820-850 FPS]. It's a good idea to leave the 1911 alone when you buy one new and just shoot it with what it came with so if reliability is a problem, one is not left with trying to figure out if the new parts are the issue.l it just needs some breaking in or if it's a manufacturer problem. After a K or so of ammo, you can start to figure out what you would like to do. |
| With a lightly tuned target trigger, you CAN have hammer follow if you let the slide slam home on an empty chamber. This is fairly jarring to the gun, and it can cause sear bounce. This shouldn't happen with a proper duty trigger, however. If this happens with a Series 80, the hammer will fall past the sear and hit the firing pin, which will be stopped by the block. With a non-Series 80, the hammer should stop on the "safety" notch (half cock). In theory, this would not happen when chambering a round, as it's less jarring to the action. |
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I restored it to original factory condition, and I will recheck with snap caps once I order them, likely my own stupidity, and my eagerness to correct non-existent problems.
My thinking came from a bad issue I had with a different firearm, it had issues from the get go, and I ended up trying a bunch of remedies, and once I solved one issue another popped up, and so on, eventually I sent it back, and it is still there getting worked on. With this new pistol I wanted to replace all the parts I intended to eventually replace and start my reliability testing, rather than shoot a bunch of ammo, and then replace parts, thus having to start reliability testing from scratch, with a recoil spring I was concerned with hollow points, but I clearly read the wrong posts on the internet, and will stick with what was checked out at the factory to be correct, and enjoy.
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