[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is STI worth it? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/27/2010 5:46:28 PM EDT
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Dealer is selling a 4.15 tactical for $1700. I like the feel a lot having larger hands but man...$1700 plus tax for a handgun?
My history is I've only owned 1 handgun. A sig 220 since 1991when I turned 21 and it's at end of life. In otherwords noob. |
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Good guns and excellent for competition but you need a Glock or a Smith and Wesson M&P to start with. Hate glocks. Feels cheap and slippery and angle is wrong. Did not try S&W M&P because dealer did not have. Did try and shoot the STI and a H&K 45. H&K I did not shoot so well with but the STI wow at 25 yrds I was keeping inside a apple sized hole. I was amazed really. |
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And they are very soft shooting. But high maintenance. I wouldn't carry one, but I did shoot my best USPSA match ever with one. Good to know! Thanks. This will be my only handgun and I want to keep it 20 years like my last one. Back to the range tomorrow I guess...dealer has hundreds of guns to shoot. |
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STIs are very well built, and no higher maintenance than any other 1911 platform gun. If you get one, get it in 10mm or .45... the most common is .40S&W, but factory .40 ammo may not run reliably due to the magazine dimensions. Factory .45 and 10mm should run no problem. I have owned a couple and like them very much - certainly superior in almost every way compared with a single-stack 1911.
I agree with the advice above, though - for a carry gun skip the STI and get a Smith M&P or a Springfield XD. |
I'm going to go against everyone on this and say get the STI. While I prefer my 1911s single stack and made of steel, the STI is a very accurate and extremely reliable gun (you think guys would run these in competitions if they were unreliable? ).
If you like it, you can conceal it comfortably, and you understand how to field strip, maintain, and clean the pistol then you are fine. It's better to have a gun that you feel good about then the one the most internet commandos recommend for you. |
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And they are very soft shooting. But high maintenance. I wouldn't carry one, but I did shoot my best USPSA match ever with one. My limted gun a sti edge might get cleaned every 2,0000 rounds. STI are not high maintance. My open gun every 1,000. We got one guy that the only time any of his gear gets cleaned is when it goes to the GS. He just keeps adding oil. I have yet ot see his stis malfunction, in over the 6 years of shooting with this crew. Wait he did have to replace a barrel due to keyholing Rifling was just plain wore out. |
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STI magazines are the only place where they are less reliable than a 1911, and they can be great or problematic. My mags have hit the ground been stepped on covered in dirt mud rain sand snow. And work just fine. When the Sti magazine becomes iffy is when we try to over stuff the magazine using low pro followers, different spring, extended basepads all for 2 maybe 3 extra rounds. Yeah we take a 60 dollar magazine strip it down to the body then add another 60 dollars worth of crap for 3 extra rounds. In finding the right mix is where a lot of people have problems. I know a few guys that carry STI for a living. Key keep the magazines stock. A sti is just as easy to conceal as a 1911 and holds almost 2x the ammo. |
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STIs or SVs for that matter are not problematic when set up right like any other 1911.
Competition shooters have proven these guns can go long and hard without problems and still be quite reliable. I have two SVs and one STI .40 S&W that total over 280,000 rounds. My mags are reliable but the springs get changed when needed. The mags were polished INSIDE the feed lips and were measured for the correct dimensions. I have over 20 140mm mags. My original SV that has a custom serial number has been fired over 158,000 times but has had 3 barrels and 4 slides. It cost $1500 new in 1995. It gets constant use. THEY BREAK OR WEAR OUT LIKE ANYTHING ELSE WHEN YOU SHOOT THEM HARD. The last barrel had little or no rifling but still functioned. That gun gets 250 rounds every Friday and a match during the weekend. I cleaned it for the first time this year on Oct 5th. I'd bet my life on this gun any day. I tried an M&P 9mm for fun and broke it too with less than 10,000 rounds. I cracked the slide on my Glock 31 with less than 8000 rounds. Get your STI from Dawson Precision and let Dave set it up right to include a good trigger job. He fitted my STI and it still runs great and was the gun I got my current status with a few years back. Mick A27257 |
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I had a Trojan and still have an Edge. I would not recommend STI to anybody. If you are going to spend that much money I would get a Brown or Wilson. Setting aesthetics aside (which is subjective anyway...and I think STI's are plain ugly), I agree with this. No doubt a properly set up STI can run. But in terms of what they cost, and what you get, I'd go with a Baer, Brown, or Wilson....unless you just really need a double-stack 1911. In which case, STI is probably the best bet. Is that convoluted enough? 
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Quoted: STIs or SVs for that matter are not problematic when set up right like any other 1911. Competition shooters have proven these guns can go long and hard without problems and still be quite reliable. I have two SVs and one STI .40 S&W that total over 280,000 rounds. My mags are reliable but the springs get changed when needed. The mags were polished INSIDE the feed lips and were measured for the correct dimensions. I have over 20 140mm mags. My original SV that has a custom serial number has been fired over 158,000 times but has had 3 barrels and 4 slides. It cost $1500 new in 1995. It gets constant use. THEY BREAK OR WEAR OUT LIKE ANYTHING ELSE WHEN YOU SHOOT THEM HARD. The last barrel had little or no rifling but still functioned. That gun gets 250 rounds every Friday and a match during the weekend. I cleaned it for the first time this year on Oct 5th. I'd bet my life on this gun any day. I tried an M&P 9mm for fun and broke it too with less than 10,000 rounds. I cracked the slide on my Glock 31 with less than 8000 rounds. Get your STI from Dawson Precision and let Dave set it up right to include a good trigger job. He fitted my STI and it still runs great and was the gun I got my current status with a few years back. Mick A27257 +1,000 Also, have him tune your mags, you'll be pleased. |
| Get whatever you're comfortable with, but with you being a self described handgun noob, I highly doubt that you've shot out your Sig 220. The 220 is a heavy duty, well built gun, and if you bought it in '91, you got a good one for sure. It may need a refinish, and a few springs replaced, but don't give up on the old girl just yet. Send it to Sig, or Bruce Grey, and let them bring it back to life. |
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I did some searches about 1911 high maintenance What do you guys say about this:
Nope. I was issued 1911's for many years in the Marine Corps (1970's to 1990's) and that is not true. Most of them were made in the 50's and they needed, and still need, extensive fitting and very high levels of maintenance. That is why 1911 experts like Larry Vickers and Hilton Yam are saying for most people the newer polymer pistols are a better choice. LAV usually uses a Glock 19 when teaching classes and Hilton Yam says he would be just fine with M&P 45's instead of 1911's. I have used 1911's in about every situation you could imagine and would gladly use an HK 45 instead.
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads...0&page=0#72516 "I am known as a 1911 guy, but if you told me my whole team was to trade in our pile of high maintenance 1911s for some 4” or 4.5” M&P 45’s, I’d hand my 1911 over in a minute. Light, low rust, ambi safety, good mag capacity, LOW maintenance, and makes big holes. What’s not to like. Did I also mention low maintenance?" Yeah I a noob in so far as what's a commodity however I shoot a lot. At least once every two weeks. I'm the kinda of guy who has 40,000 rounds for each gun instead of 100 guns and 1000 rounds.:P Trust me it's shot out. I've already replaced springs 3x and extractors 3x. Anyway going to check out M&P. caught some food poisoning this morning which has stopped me from going back to shop to rent it. |
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STIs or SVs for that matter are not problematic when set up right like any other 1911. Competition shooters have proven these guns can go long and hard without problems and still be quite reliable. I have two SVs and one STI .40 S&W that total over 280,000 rounds. My mags are reliable but the springs get changed when needed. The mags were polished INSIDE the feed lips and were measured for the correct dimensions. I have over 20 140mm mags. My original SV that has a custom serial number has been fired over 158,000 times but has had 3 barrels and 4 slides. It cost $1500 new in 1995. It gets constant use. THEY BREAK OR WEAR OUT LIKE ANYTHING ELSE WHEN YOU SHOOT THEM HARD. The last barrel had little or no rifling but still functioned. That gun gets 250 rounds every Friday and a match during the weekend. I cleaned it for the first time this year on Oct 5th. I'd bet my life on this gun any day. I tried an M&P 9mm for fun and broke it too with less than 10,000 rounds. I cracked the slide on my Glock 31 with less than 8000 rounds. Get your STI from Dawson Precision and let Dave set it up right to include a good trigger job. He fitted my STI and it still runs great and was the gun I got my current status with a few years back. Mick A27257 Wow so $1800 out the door is not the end of it? Need custom mags and trigger jobs too? I loved the way it shot, the controls the feel but this may be getting out of my price range combined with questions about reliability compared to modern weapons. |
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STIs or SVs for that matter are not problematic when set up right like any other 1911. Competition shooters have proven these guns can go long and hard without problems and still be quite reliable. I have two SVs and one STI .40 S&W that total over 280,000 rounds. My mags are reliable but the springs get changed when needed. The mags were polished INSIDE the feed lips and were measured for the correct dimensions. I have over 20 140mm mags. My original SV that has a custom serial number has been fired over 158,000 times but has had 3 barrels and 4 slides. It cost $1500 new in 1995. It gets constant use. THEY BREAK OR WEAR OUT LIKE ANYTHING ELSE WHEN YOU SHOOT THEM HARD. The last barrel had little or no rifling but still functioned. That gun gets 250 rounds every Friday and a match during the weekend. I cleaned it for the first time this year on Oct 5th. I'd bet my life on this gun any day. I tried an M&P 9mm for fun and broke it too with less than 10,000 rounds. I cracked the slide on my Glock 31 with less than 8000 rounds. Get your STI from Dawson Precision and let Dave set it up right to include a good trigger job. He fitted my STI and it still runs great and was the gun I got my current status with a few years back. Mick A27257 Wow so $1800 out the door is not the end of it? Need custom mags and trigger jobs too? I loved the way it shot, the controls the feel but this may be getting out of my price range combined with questions about reliability compared to modern weapons. It does not need a trigger job, I'll take any off the line STI trigger over any off the Sig/glock/mp. none of my my sti mags are tuned. tuning helps some guys who want a 21 reloadable magazine. I'm happy with my 19. the cost is just not worth the extra ammo. Got to remember 90% (made up) of STI 2011 sales is to us gamers, who dump a lot into a gun thinking it will help us win. In reality practice will do that. you plan on putting the gun on your side and crawling threw mud or something? range and carry conditions I'll put my edge and 1911s against any of the others. |
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If you anticipate dropping your mags on cement or hard ground consistently then you will have to "customize" them to keep them reliable. What Mick describes is maintaining your gear for intensive USPSA competition shooting.
Mick remember Grand Prairie Pistol Club? NAD |
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STIs or SVs for that matter are not problematic when set up right like any other 1911. Competition shooters have proven these guns can go long and hard without problems and still be quite reliable. I have two SVs and one STI .40 S&W that total over 280,000 rounds. My mags are reliable but the springs get changed when needed. The mags were polished INSIDE the feed lips and were measured for the correct dimensions. I have over 20 140mm mags. My original SV that has a custom serial number has been fired over 158,000 times but has had 3 barrels and 4 slides. It cost $1500 new in 1995. It gets constant use. THEY BREAK OR WEAR OUT LIKE ANYTHING ELSE WHEN YOU SHOOT THEM HARD. The last barrel had little or no rifling but still functioned. That gun gets 250 rounds every Friday and a match during the weekend. I cleaned it for the first time this year on Oct 5th. I'd bet my life on this gun any day. I tried an M&P 9mm for fun and broke it too with less than 10,000 rounds. I cracked the slide on my Glock 31 with less than 8000 rounds. Get your STI from Dawson Precision and let Dave set it up right to include a good trigger job. He fitted my STI and it still runs great and was the gun I got my current status with a few years back. Mick A27257 +1000 My STI's are the shit 
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| A clinically diagnosed retard should have no problems running a 1911. Buy a good one, from a good company, get good mags and take a little time to understand it. Thats all it takes, and STI should be a good one. I dont know, I dont do double stacks, in fact Id recommend a 5" single stack .45 but the STIs doubles are supposed to run great. |
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Get whatever you're comfortable with, but with you being a self described handgun noob, I highly doubt that you've shot out your Sig 220. The 220 is a heavy duty, well built gun, and if you bought it in '91, you got a good one for sure. It may need a refinish, and a few springs replaced, but don't give up on the old girl just yet. Send it to Sig, or Bruce Grey, and let them bring it back to life. This. $1700 for a custom gun is not much. Take a look at Wilson Combat or Nighthawk to see how much you can spend on a pistol. STI is an excellent maker. As everyone else has said, competitors use them because they work. |
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Yam and Vickers are not gunsmiths. They don't have the knowledge or experience. You need to research that statement.  Vickers is a member of the Pistolsmith Guild... He was also personally taught the craft by Richard Heinie, who just might know something about 1911's as well. As to the OP, I say get a gun that you shoot well, if you shoot your 220 well, you might consider getting another, if you just want something different, and the STI works for you, I'd say get the STI, maybe order it hard chromed, that will make it very hard wearing. BTW––This thread has got me looking at STI's website quite a bit, and now I think I "need" a VIP. |
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You need to research that statement. No, I don't. I have. Who does their machine work? Quoted:
He was also personally taught the craft by Richard Heinie, who just might know something about 1911's as well. I wouldn't know. I wasn't there. Isn't Henie the guy that does Vicker's machine work? Quoted:
Vickers is a member of the Pistolsmith Guild... And? Vicker's only ever worked on a handful of guns. I know two people that have owned them. Neither worked. |
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You need to research that statement. No, I don't. I have. Who does their machine work? Quoted:
He was also personally taught the craft by Richard Heinie, who just might know something about 1911's as well. I wouldn't know. I wasn't there. Isn't Henie the guy that does Vicker's machine work? Quoted:
Vickers is a member of the Pistolsmith Guild... And? Vicker's only ever worked on a handful of guns. I know two people that have owned them. Neither worked. Now you're wrong three times instead of once. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Heinie ordered a pistol from Vickers...that says a lot. Heinie holds Vickers in high regard. I'm too jaded on the gun industry to believe that is the full story. Im going to believe you really dont know anything about the 1911 and should stick to listening instead of trying to give advice. |
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Heinie ordered a pistol from Vickers...that says a lot. Heinie holds Vickers in high regard. I'm too jaded on the gun industry to believe that is the full story. Im going to believe you really dont know anything about the 1911 and should stick to listening instead of trying to give advice. Go ahead. Who are you? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Heinie ordered a pistol from Vickers...that says a lot. Heinie holds Vickers in high regard. I'm too jaded on the gun industry to believe that is the full story. Im going to believe you really dont know anything about the 1911 and should stick to listening instead of trying to give advice. Go ahead. Who are you? Just a guy that knows not to comment on things he knows nothing about. |
| Well, I am going to put my 2 pennies in here, I am a USPSA shooter, and a certified range officer, these credentials mean nothing, other then, I have seen ALOT of factory and game guns in the 5 years I have been shooting, and running shooters. This is 100 % my opinion, based off of my observations over the years. If you are going to get a 2011, get one built by a competent gunsmith, Dawson, Brazoz, Benny Hill,Limcat. These guys all start with STI parts, and make them into guns that work, all the time. My personal opinion, is that STI factory guns are hit and miss, you might get a winner, you might not, and for 1-2K this is rediculous.I am on my 2nd 2011, the first being a SV, with over 90,000 rounds through it, before it started becoming un reliable. I went with a Limcat STI for my second, but with only 200 rnds though it, the verdict is still out.From what I Have witnessed, I would say in order, the most reliable pistols, are sti custom guns, glocks, M&P's and kimber 45's. All the rest are hit and miss. Flame all you want, I would bet 99% of avid USPSA shooters would agree with these views. These are the guns that see 10,000 rounds + per year, any less then that, I really dont care, flame away. |
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Quoted: No dog in this fight but neither of you guys is giving me anything more than "uh huh" and "nuh-Uh" arguments here. I want to learn something here and no one is offering any substance. Go to Yams Facebook and check it out. Looks like gunsmithing going on to me, but I guess you'd have to judge it for yourself I guess. Hell I even seen a mill in use but what do I know. As for Vickers, well I dont really care for the guy but his gunsmithing on the 1911 is pretty well the stuff of legend. He did a lot of the smithing on the Delta guns, etc plus teaches a class for Petes sake. I think he even got Pistolsmith of the Year once, and they just dont do that for kicks an giggles. |
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You just referred me to FaceBook? I know who they are, and I know what they do... I don't need FaceBook to tell me. Page 1. You said Yam was not a smith. You were corrected in the fact that Hilton is a smith. Obviously you do need facebook to tell you. Not sure how more blunt anyone could be with you. I'm not a 1911 guru and will never admit to be one. But it seems like lots of folks do hold both in high regards in the industy. Hell, let's shoot a PM to Jason @ heirloom and see what he says. Would you believe it coming from him? |
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You just referred me to FaceBook? I know who they are, and I know what they do... I don't need FaceBook to tell me. Page 1. You said Yam was not a smith. You were corrected in the fact that Hilton is a smith. Obviously you do need facebook to tell you. Not sure how more blunt anyone could be with you. I'm not a 1911 guru and will never admit to be one. But it seems like lots of folks do hold both in high regards in the industy. Hell, let's shoot a PM to Jason @ heirloom and see what he says. Would you believe it coming from him? Oh no... you just fell into CJ's trap.... 
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Hell, let's shoot a PM to Jason @ heirloom and see what he says. Would you believe it coming from him? You'll notice that Ted and Jason have a mill and a lathe, and they can finish weapons as well. How can you be a gunsmith when you can't complete those activities? And I'll send a PM as soon as I hit submit. |
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You just referred me to FaceBook? I know who they are, and I know what they do... I don't need FaceBook to tell me. Page 1. You said Yam was not a smith. You were corrected in the fact that Hilton is a smith. Obviously you do need facebook to tell you. Not sure how more blunt anyone could be with you. I'm not a 1911 guru and will never admit to be one. But it seems like lots of folks do hold both in high regards in the industy. Hell, let's shoot a PM to Jason @ heirloom and see what he says. Would you believe it coming from him? Oh no... you just fell into CJ's trap.... Not really, now I'm interested what he has to say. Though I'm sure he'll be bothered more than anything else. |
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Yam and Vickers are not gunsmiths. They don't have the knowledge or experience. So if you think to be labeled a gunsmith you need bluing tanks youre still wrong. Your second sentence is full of stupid and IBTL. Yeah. You have to be able to work on guns to be a gunsmith. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yam and Vickers are not gunsmiths. They don't have the knowledge or experience. So if you think to be labeled a gunsmith you need bluing tanks youre still wrong. Your second sentence is full of stupid and IBTL. Yeah. You have to be able to work on guns to be a gunsmith. Do you prefer the term 1911 pistolsmith? |