Posted: 11/10/2009 3:49:36 PM EDT
| I wonder if I can get your feedback on the few .357 Magnum semiauto pistols on the market such as the Desert Eagle or Coonan? I prefer the semi auto pistols over revolver, but am I better off with a revolver in this caliber? Why don't we see many large caliber pistols? Any recommendations? |
| Since autoloaders, for the most part, house in the magazine in the grip frame, it makes that portion of the gun overly large for most people's hands. Next is the fact that rimmed cartridges do not really feed well from magazines. Finally, the mass and spring weight required to keep the gun from beating itself to death in just a few rounds makes the gun heavier and more bulky, as well as harder to operate. |
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I think you would be better off with a wheel gun if you want to shoot .357 magnums, but if you want the same ballistics as the .357 delivers in 4" revolver barrels, but want an auto, get a 9x23mm Winchester.
The 9x23mm duplicates the ballistics of the popular anti-personnel loads in a regular revolver. It works well, and the Gov't model is easy to carry. Now, if you want to go big game hunting, it won't do quite as well with bullets heavier than 147 grains. But, you should probably move up to at least a .41 magnum if that is your goal. Better yet, a .44 magnum, or a hot loaded .45 Colt, in the proper action. |
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Better comparison would be 10mm Auto vs. 357 Revolver.
Factory "full house" 10mm loads aren't as common as .357 loads, but the pistols are far more common, reliable, and practical than .357 Mag autos. Both EAA and Glock produce 10mm autos with a 15 round magazine capacity. You can also get 1911s chambered for 10mm. A full house 10mm will shoot a 180 grain bullet as the same velocity as a full house .357 load will shoot a 158 grain bullet. |
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Quoted:
I wonder if I can get your feedback on the few .357 Magnum semiauto pistols on the market such as the Desert Eagle or Coonan? I prefer the semi auto pistols over revolver, but am I better off with a revolver in this caliber? Why don't we see many large caliber pistols? Any recommendations? if you're set on .357, you're better off w/this.... 
TN68 |
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Quoted:
I think you would be better off with a wheel gun if you want to shoot .357 magnums, but if you want the same ballistics as the .357 delivers in 4" revolver barrels, but want an auto, get a 9x23mm Winchester. The 9x23mm duplicates the ballistics of the popular anti-personnel loads in a regular revolver. It works well, and the Gov't model is easy to carry. Now, if you want to go big game hunting, it won't do quite as well with bullets heavier than 147 grains. But, you should probably move up to at least a .41 magnum if that is your goal. Better yet, a .44 magnum, or a hot loaded .45 Colt, in the proper action. The .38 Super has been around since the 30's IIRC and is a lot easier to find than 9x23(I can't recall ever seeing a 9x23). It's also pretty close to the .357. |
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what do you mean by large caliber pistols? doesnt the 45acp fit into the large caliber pistol? you will need to be more specific on what youre looking for. i think you just havent done your homework. Macinisttx and other guys answered my question. Yeah I have done some research but see only a few .357 Mag auto's available. I should've been more specific. By larger, I shouldn't have said "caliber", I mean the length of the cartridge.The .45 auto is great, I have a Springfield 1911 and love it...when it works, had to send it back for repairs though because it jams HP bullets between the ramp and magazine. The reason I'm interested in .357 Magnum is because 1) I prefer auto loaders for the extra rounds compaired to a revolver 5 or 6 round capacity; and 2) the biggest reason for .357Mag is I have a Henry Big Boy .357 Magnum lever gun and have stocked up on a lot of .357 Mag and .38 Special defense and range ammo, but have a lot more .357 than .38 Spc. Plus, depending on bullet design and load, isn't a .357 Magnum bullet much better at going through thick barriers than the .45 acp? Although the designs and loads of both rounds have pro's and cons, and, each manufacturer have their own characteristics. I would think I'd have better control for re-aquiring a target with the .45 ACP than the .357 Magnum due to what I'd think would be lesser recoil, but again, gun designs are all different too. I haven't fired a .357 magnum pistol, so I wouln't know one way or another. Was just curious why we only see a few manufacturers making a .357 Mag semi auto pistols. I can see how a .357 Mag pistol grip would be huge due to cartridge length vs. the .45 acp, but I never actually seen the dimentions on say...the Desert Eagle and Coonan. I guess it wouldn't offer me a good grip because of my hand size. I have the Judge Magnum .45 LC/.410 3"cylinder, the recoil is sweet, especially because of the rubber grip and good balance of gun weight, although in my experience so far, the Judge isn't all that accurate unless the target is closer than 25-50 yards max. Again, ammo design and load variations matter a lot. This is another gun I had to send back for inspection. |
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The judge is inaccurate due to the shitty design required to fire .410 shells from a .45 colt firearm. Poor shotgun and poor handgun. Revolvers must be dimensionally correct or they will never provide good accuracy.
A look at the dimensions of autoloading pistol cartridges versus revolver cartridges will give you an idea of the size of the gun required to house the latter. 45 ACP is 1.26" C.O.A.L. and the .357 is 1.59" C.O.A.L.. The .357 has about twice the pressure. |
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I have little hands on experience with DE pistols.
I have shot the S&W semi designed for the 38WC and it was sweet but you are only going to get the one load which is really only target use. One of the real benifits of a 357 revolver is the wide range of available loads fron mild 38 target on up to heavy hitting heavy bullet full house 357 loads. I expect the DE guns are only going to run correctly with a certain power level , likely with only one bullet weight range. I fail to see why the 357 is even on the table for discussion when the 10mm is out there in several factory guns. I understand that Hollywood and the movie culture loves the DE but that isn't much of a reason to actually spend money on one |
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That's a myth-.357 Sig is not supposed to match 357 Mag, its just commonly mistaken for the other cartridge, not helped by the fact that Texas DPS Trooper once carried weapons of both denominations.
10MM v. .357 mag is the best comparison i've seen here. Ask any LEO that's seen an MP10 at work.....10mm is a badboy out of a 10-16" bbl, and .357 Mag can take good sized game in a levergun up to about 125 yds. Both are damn good for bipeds in the 25 yd range through a short bbl.. |
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That's a myth-.357 Sig is not supposed to match 357 Mag, its just commonly mistaken for the other cartridge, not helped by the fact that Texas DPS Trooper once carried weapons of both denominations. 10MM v. .357 mag is the best comparison i've seen here. Ask any LEO that's seen an MP10 at work.....10mm is a badboy out of a 10-16" bbl, and .357 Mag can take good sized game in a levergun up to about 125 yds. Both are damn good for bipeds in the 25 yd range through a short bbl.. The Sig and Mag are so close as to be considered identical, but only with 125 grain bullets. The Sig can't handle the heavier bullets nearly as well. Some high pressure 9mm loads are pretty close to .357 mag, and the .38 Super is pretty close too. None of them have a bullet comparable to the SJHP of the magnum available, at least not that I know of. A more valid comparison of the 10mm is to the .41 mag, but that's assuming light to midrange loads are used in the wheelgun. |
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A guy I shoot with has a Coonan that he brings out a few times a year. It is a nice gun but not practical, since it only runs on full power magnum loads. Anything else and it becomes a Jam-O-matic. Another guy at the matches has a 460 Rowland, it does a 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
@ 1350 feet fps according to Clark's website. I think if I wanted a high powered auto I would get a Rowland. I prefer my Smith 28 for heavy 357 loads. |
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If the issue revolves around the OPs large stockpile of .357 ammo, then 10mm is not a win. Personally, I'd get a S&W 6 (or 7!) shot revolver and a pair of speedloaders in a pouch. That seems to be the best option here because on hand ammo availability favors a .357 magnum gun. Others pointed out also the ability to use a wide range of loads in 38 Special as well. A revolver it is then. |
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One thing to know about a DE,the safety is just about impossible to get at,while you can use it with you firing hand you have to shift the thing to the point of almost dropping it-not good. Also the size....I carried one for a few weeks,I don't care about weight as much as some so no complaints there but,geeze,almost any holster I tried it would start flopping outward quick;you'd need a belt like a board to stop this. I stand behind the DE as a combat arm,but it'd be for very special use and not everyday pistol fight use. |
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I know of only 3 .357 Magnum autos, The fore mentioned Desert Eagle and Coonan (two different models the "A" and "B") and the Grizzly LAR. Never had any experience with the DE or LAR. Coonans on the other hand owned two model Bs and have a friend that owned several also. I used to carry condition 1 with mine, swapping between my 1911 and CZ75s carried openly and concealed. Used to shoot the Coonan in stock auto class of ISPC during the early 90s. My load was a 125 gr JHP at 1450 fps from the 5". There is one disadvantage of the Coonan for reloaders is finding your ejected brass! Carried the Coonan on a few pig hunts as backup but never used it. Orginal mag cap was 7 rounds than changed to 8 round mags. The 5 Coonans that I know of where 100% realible with any .357 Mag ammo. .38 SPL would feed, including 148 gr Wadcutters but you need a lighter recoil spring for correct functioning and different mag follower. Coonan used to sale a .38 kit for that reason. There is no problem feeding rimmed cases if you build the magazine correctly, if not then .22LR, .303 British Brens, and Soviet 7.62x54R automatics would never work. I was accurate out to 100m with iron sighted gun.
Coonans are hard to find and pricey. The model A used a swinging link of the 1911 and then the model B used the Browning HiPower set up for locking. The Cadet was a shorted version (slide and frame). As these were early all stainless steel guns make sure that you use lithium grease to prevent galling of the slide and frame. Majority of the 1911 holsters will work for the Coonans but be aware of the long dust cover on the frame. Dan Coonan is currently building FAL recievers and is rumored considering rebuilding the gun. See the thread down in the all others handguns section below. CD ETA: on the magazine there is a hole below the follower for a steel pin that came with the gun. You insereted the pin in the hole to depress the follower. Rounds would then just drop in. It wasn't needed but did make loading allot easier. You could also subsitute a static line safety wire pin for the pin . |
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Smith does or has made some 8 shot 2.5" revolvers, and this would be your best option for capacity considering that the coonan holds 8 rounds in the mag, and the DE holds 9. A 7 round 686 or 386 would be my choice for carry though. They make 8 shot smith and wessons with 4, 5 and 6 inch barrels as well I believe. |
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My friend has a commander size Coonan (rare) and it works perfect and likes the hot 357 loads. I can reload an auto a lot faster than a revolver and the power to weight-payload, flash, factor and follow up shots favor the semi auto.
10MM is where it's at anyway, I'll carry my 15 rounds of REAL 10mm in the woods over a 6 shot revolver any day and can run 200 grainers too boot.
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