[ARCHIVED THREAD] - XS Sights (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/14/2008 5:33:46 PM EDT
| Hello all, has anyone tried the XS sights on their Glock pistols yet? I've been think of swapping out my stock sights on my Glock 19 for a set of the Xs's, and I was just curious on what you thought of them? |
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I had a set on a Glock 23 and found them to be suited for a specific purpose. I carry my G23 for plain clothes police work and found the sights to be fast for accross a room but too difficult to place round with precision past ten or fifteen yards. I switched back to Trijicon night sights. |
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I'm a HUGE XS Big Dot fan and have them on my G19. I have made hits on man-sized steel out to 100 yards with my Big Dots. It's probably easier with standard sights but it's still VERY do-able with Big Dots and some practice. Here's my patented "Why XS Big Dots?" paragraph: I've done a lot of Force on Force exercises and scenarios as a student and as a roleplayer. We've used converted Glock 17s - 2 of them with Big Dots and one of them with Meprolight night sights. By the end of day 1, NO ONE wants to use the standard night sights. Under stress (even the mock stress of FOF) the eye has a LOT of trouble focusing on your front sight. With the Big Dot, it provides a MUCH better reference point for where your gun is oriented and where you're going to make hits. Check out these videos: How to use XS Big Dots - Video Distance Shooting with XS Big Dots XS Sight Install Stay safe, Mike |
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I have them on my XD sub compact and hate them with a passion. I find them no faster than regular sites with a proper grip and much harder to shoot accurately out past very short range. I especially hate the idea of superimposing the dot over the target. It just doesn't work for me at all. Worst $80 I ever spent on a gun. I haven't had the bucks to change them to trueglows yet so I quit carrying this pistol until I have the dough. |
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It's funny, I'm so used to XS Big Dots on my G19 now that when I went to the range to rent a 1911 (thinking about picking one up), I couldn't find the front sight after recoil! It was a Kimber SS TLE/RL II with Trijicon night sights on them. Hell, I hated the Trijicons when I had them on my G26 as well. So damn hard to pick up the front sight. |
+1 When I'm a FOF roleplayer i sometimes use a revolver with a front blade sight with a red plastic insert. I'm used to the Big Dot and really have to fight to stay focused on the front sight.... Not everyone will like Big Dots but I really do think that they're the best sight for a fighting / self defense gun. Mike |
If you are attempting to align the rear with the front ala traditional sights... you're doing it wrong. Treat the Big Dot like you would an Aimpoint. Completely ignore the rear sight until you get out at extended ranges (30+ yards). Go to the range and pretend the Big Dot is a red dot sight. Place the big white dot where you want the bullet to go and press the trigger. Do not overthink these sights or treat them like notch and post sights. I can easily make 35 yard hits on my 12" x 20" steel silhouette with the rear sight removed and only using the front big dot. I get 90% hits on my steel at 50 yards by setting the big dot down in the V of the rear. I can make 25% hits at 100 yards. All this with a stock Glock 17/19/26/31. As to which Big Dot to go with, get the large one or don't bother. Even the XS guys say they only make the smaller front for people who just refuse to think the large dot works. I prefer the non-Tritium rear, but that is more of a personal thing. |
I've done some timed shooting with the XS sights and find that the design of the rear sight results in vertical stringing at anything beyond foot-of-the-bed distances. I have the big dot on my Kahr but for accuracy I will stick to the notch and post sights. |
No offense meant but... You're doing it wrong. Inside of 25-30 yards, the rear sight does not come into play at all. If you are attempting to utilize the rear sight inside 25-30 yards... you're doing it wrong. Vertical stringing is caused by poor trigger control and lack of follow through. |
Then I have no desire to learn the "right" way to do it when I have traditional sights on all my other guns. |
Sorry, the fact that you have no desire to learn the right way to use these sights made your earlier statement useless and misinformative for these looking for useful information pre-purchase. |
| I put the big dot on my Kimber .45 So far, I love it. This system works well for a guy with bifocals. It took to long to find the mep night sights that came on the pistol when I purchased it. Now,I can see the target and all I have to do is put that big white thing in the vicinity and pull trigger.....ymmv |
The problem I have with them is the fact that the proper grip required to make these sights effective is the same grip that makes them completely unnecessary. I get on target as fast with regular sights because they are already aligned when the come up. I could hit a steel plate really quick with them as well. They just really hurt my ability to make the tight, accurate shot when I need to. I found myself trying very hard to get accuracy when it was effortless with the True glows that I have on two of my 4 XD's. I didn't see vertical stringing, just crappy groups with no extra speed. This is my opinion, so I would appreciate it if you all don't trash me for giving out misinformation. |
All it takes is one force on force class using Big Dots back to back with traditional sights and nobody here would even consider traditional sights for a self-defense pistol. They have zero downsides once you learn the correct way to utilize them and the advantage they give you under dim, moving, stressfull shooting is tremendous. |
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I have them on a G19 I ran at an pseudo-USPSA match several weeks ago. Yes, they take a bit to get used to. The first match I shot them in I was a bit sloppy. The second match I used them in, they ran like a top, because I TOOK THE TIME TO LEARN HOW TO USE THEM, as in, I started to only focus on the front sight. The last match I used them in, I had to make head shots on a string of 6 targets at 20 feet under time constraints. I was running the stage really fast and didn't want to take the time to look at each target after I shot to see If I hit it. I simply took a half and instant longer to line up the dot with the post and guess what, all A zone hits. I have now been mockingly dubbed "Mr Accurate" 
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There is a gentleman that shoots USPSA with an open gun with no sights at all. I believe he's achieved Master level shooting this way. Just because he is able to do it, doesn't mean that it's a good idea for everyone. My experience (and that of many others) has shown that a very visible front sight is the one best thing you can do, sight-wise, for shooting quickly. My point is that proper sight alignment is still necessary for accurate distance hits. You don't necessarily need a rear sight on the gun, but to suggest that simply "putting the front sight on the target" will give you A-zone hits at any distance is disingenuous at best. My point was that the standard XS rear sight sucks. I believe there are better rear sights available. The fact that one person has trained themselves to shoot with the XS front and rear, or no rear at all, doesn't make it the right way. The right way is the way that works best for you, all else being equal. I shoot USPSA and IDPA with black rear and fiber optic fronts. I have enough rounds downrange that I do not desire to learn another system, and the fact that countless GM and M class shooters use this same setup is enough for me to believe that can be adequate for me as well. |
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I received a question via PM as to which is better, the XS Big Dot or the XS standard dot. Since i'm having hell with PM's right now I'll post my answer here. Go with the Big Dot. I'll try to explain the sight picture for various distances and you'll understand why. For precision shooting inside 7 yards you place the big dot over the target and the bullets will hit dead center of the big dot. Ignore the rear sight. I can easily shoot 5 rounds through a nickle sized hole at 5-7 yards shooting like this. From around 10 yards out to 100 yards for precision shooting you use a 6 o'clock hold. The bullets will hit dead center of the TOP of the front sight. I concentrate on the front sight ONLY, out to 25-30 yards, completely ignoring the rear sight. IPSC A zone head shots out to 25 are not a problem using them in this way. For hitting at distances over 35 yards I use the stripe on the rear sight to "lollipop" the big dot to verify windage. I can make regular hits on a 12" x 21" steel plate out to 100 yards using them this way. For self-defense use out to 25 yards just use the dot like a red dot sight and you can make IDPA -0 body shots no problem. Put the "golfball" on the badguy and press the trigger. The smaller sights doesn't help you in any way. For precision shooting you use the top of the front sight, so the actual size of the dot is irrelevant. For fast shooting under stress the Big dot makes all the difference. |
If you play games with your guns using game gear. If your gun pulls double duty as a self-defense tool use the best fighting sights made, XS Big Dots. |
Then perhaps you won't mind sharing the secret to the correct sight picture, if not for me (since I won't be buying any more XS sights) then for the other prospective buyers. Never mind, I see you already did this in a post above.
I do own a set of XS sights and I shared my experiences with them, which are far from unique from what I have heard from others who have also tried them. It's reasonable to assume the OP might have the same experience.
Truglo TFO front and black rear does the job fine in low light situations. If the room is too dark to see the target there's not much point having a sight picture you can't use. I have also found that tritium sights are just about useless in anything except the darkest environments. Fiber optics will pipe any ambient light, which can't be said for the XS sight. If low light performance is that important, why not use a laser? |
Don't assume that I only shoot stationary. You would be making an ass of yourself and insulting those who disagree with your assesment. I shoot moving on almost a weekly basis. I don't have anywhere to shoot IDPA or any other competition, so I shoot on my Sisters farm on multiple targets at different ranges. I am not great, but I can make hits while moving better with regular sites than with your glorious XS sights. The regular sights line up themselves when I use a correct grip. I just see them come up flat accross the top and and when it intersects the target I fire the shot. I think you need to rethink your use of absolute terms. You assume you know more than those who don't like your favorite sites. You suppose we must be uneducated or misinformed and your assumptions are incorrect. Making statements and assumptions like yours are just showing your youth and lack of tact. I don't like your damn sites. That doesn't make me a half assed paper puncher. If I ever take a force on force class, I will learn 10 times as much as you because I know when to shut up and listen. You way is not the magic bullet that you claim it to be. Don't insult those who disagree by denegrating their ability or skill level or where they practice. |
Wow, for a comment asking a poster not to assume and/or make assumptions you sure do alot of it. |
Only one single assumption was made, that I can learn better than him because I don't believe that my way is the only way to get it right. Now I can only assume you don't read too well.   (Just kidding)
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Your whole response to my opinion was that I must be wrong or ignorant because I don't like the sights. That is why a couple of us argued with you. You imply that I don't know how to shoot moving, which I do. You imply that I don't know what I am doing because I don't find them to work well. This basically made you full of shit. You need to grow up enough to realize when you are implying that someone else is wrong or ignorant when they don't agree with you. For some, tact only comes with age. I don't have any trouble with accuracy as well, because I don't use those sights! |
| XS sights are something you either like or you dont. If you voice criticism against them, proponents of them will automatically state you dont know what you are talking about. I tried them for a period of several months and canned them. I get faster and more accurate hits using conventional notch and post sights. And yes; those hits range from square range work to force on force situations. |
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I am a mid-tier hobby shooter that spends more time shining a chair with my ass than shooting a gun. I read a lot of reviews on XS sights and it seems that people either loved them or hated them so I decided to give them a whirl. I had a set put on my G17 last month and shot a USPA match the day after I picked them up without trying them out first. Not a great idea, I know, but shooting them without retraining myself was a bit of a shock. On the first few stages they were easy to pick up and were fast at close distances. Beyond 10 yards was a different story. I had 5 misses on a 6 shot string at 25 yards. All 6 shots were low. Clearly I was misaligning the sights. I haven't been back to the range with them yet but I can tell you that they are different than any sight I have tried and I will have to "learn" to use them. I am going to give them a couple of more trips to the range and definitely need to play with various distances. Jury is still out as to whether or not they will stay on the gun or I will go back to a more traditional sight. |
+1 The "standard dot" is not worth considering IMHO. ETA: Some people won't like Big Dots - which is fine with me. For me and probably 90% of the students in the FOF classes I've been in, the Big Dots come out on top when compared to standard 3-dot sights. NC Patrol Car tried them for a few months, felt they didn't work for him and moved back to his "regular" sights - cool - Give them a fair chance for a few months. Do some shooting while moving, etc. and if you still don't like them, you can probably sell them pretty quickly in the EE. I honestly think they're the best "people-shooting sight" for handguns. If something else comes out that works better, I'll happily change my tune. If people have questions on how to use the sights, check out the videos I posted on the 1st page - it's pretty straightforward stuff. Take care, Mike |
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I have a set of XS big dot sights on my G19. They seem great for getting quick short to mid range shots off. I am not able to keep groups as small as I would like, or as small as I can shooting my other handguns back to back with the Glock, ie 1911 or CZ-75. Then again I do not like the Glock trigger and that may play a role in my accuracy unhappiness. |
Fair enough and well said. I may change my tune some day as well. That is the nice part about learning something new every single day.
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| Is it that easy to install these sights? Just whack off the old sights and slide on and center the new sights? How about the windage adjustment? I mean by just centering the front and rear sights is good enough that it will be zeroed in? No need for an expensive sight tool to adust the sights? |
Pretty much.  For the rear sight there have been a few times where I've had to gently file the rear sight down bit to get them to fit properly (once on a HK USPc and once for a G19 - [I've installed probably 5-6 of these sights]). No sight pusher is needed (or recommended due to the way the rear tritium vial is positioned and the stress a sight pusher can put on the rear vial). The sights come with a synthetic punch for knocking them into place. For zeroing, most folks just center them on the slide and call it a day. If you're worried about the zero, you could hold off on locktighting the rear sight until after you've confirmed zero - then move it if needed and locktight that sucker.  Hope this helps, Mike |
Well I've tried the Big Dots with my G26 over the Memorial Day holiday. Looks like it will take a few more outings before I get use to them. After I read this thread over after my day at the range, I found that I was concentrating too much on the rear sight and getting it lined up with the front. My closest target was setup at 9 yards and the other about 15 yards. Most of my shots were low and left but basically I was all over the place . I'll try it again with the target at 7 yards and go out from there. I will concentrate on the front sight and see where I'll be hitting and I will be using some sandbags (as I did last time) to really have a steady hand at it.
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With all handguns you will want to focus on the FRONT SIGHT. Even with standard Glock sight, i found by mentally/phyiscally focusing on my front sights, my groups became amazingly small. It just "feels" much more natural to focus on the target (for obvious reasons) and the rear sight (to try to line up the sights). Focusing on the front sight feels the most unnatural, but provides dramatically better results, as you will intrinsically line up the 1. target 2. front sight 3. rear sight |
No...sorry. I think they're great for close up stuff and hard to beat for rapid target acquisition...They are a great crutch for the G19 which in my opinion does not point well at all... If you use proper technique you can be accurate with them... BUT I would like to see someone take a nice 1911 that shoots 1.5" or so at 25 yards with target sights, then put XS big dots on it and try for the same group. I'm sure it'd be accurate but to claim "notch and post" accuracy is ridiculous and overstating the features of the Big Dots. And yes, the pistol that rests in my holster at this very moment has XS big dots, so don't get your panties in too much of a wad... |
+1. I didn't even have to read the entire thread, the first response covered my experience. I had a lot of trouble being able to accurately shoot at anything beyond roughly 10 yards. I now stick with the traditional notch and post sights, Heinie straight eights on my Glocks. |
