Posted: 9/11/2007 7:49:39 PM EDT
| I was just wondering what does this caliber offer. I am thinking about getting a P2000 in 9mm or .357sig. The only handgun I have at the moment is a Glock 19. Does the .357sig have alot of benefits over the 9mm. |
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I was extremely surprised by all the .357 Sig bashing (as well as .40 S&W bashing actually) on this site. If you like fast 9mm ammo like 9mm+P or +P+, wouldn't the .357 Sig make some sense? If you believe that the .357 Magnum caliber has had a great history of performance, wouldn't the same ballistics in an autoloader make some sense? Comparing COR-BON laods: .357 mag caliber 125 gr. projectile @ 1400 fps / 544 ft lbs x 6 rounds versus 9mm (357 Sig) 125 gr. projectile @ 1425 fps / 564 ft lbs. x 12 rounds. Having the ability to fire multiple calibers on a single pistol frame platform just equals more fun! You might want to try Sigforum.com for more opinions. |
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here are a few links to check out... www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=258 www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=44957 i'm not a .357sig 'basher', but for me, it doesnt really provide any real benefit over anything else (FWIW: i do prefer shooting it over the .40sw, but thats a personal thing); of all 3, i'd take my 10mm overall and for most intents and purposes, "No", the .357sig doesnt offer anything over the 9mm or other comparable defensive ammo, esp if they are all using quality, modern, reliable JHPs H/W, the .357sig may more than likely provide that extra penetration that may help, esp through light barriers, windows, etc one big fault that the .357sig doesnt offer over .357mag: heavy grain weight availability w/ the same ballistics; you can get .357mag in 180 gr going 1400FPS....most, if not all, .357sig loads of any good are ~125gr or so (light end) |
Here's some info (below) on the round itself. Just like "ANY" other round, it has pros and cons. I personally went with a Sig P226 chambered in .40 cal, then purchased a .357 barrel from EFK. Since the magazine holds both rounds, I can just do a simple barrel swap and change ammo. Assuming you're not a hard core gun collector, I think the right way to do things is to get a 9mm, and a .40/.357sig, and a .45 caliber. That way, all your basis are covered, excluding a .22 and the magnums of course.  .357 sig Here's a 115g comparison..... Corbon 9mm Luger +P 115g JHP (4" barrel)...........1350 fps / 466 ft.lbs Corbon .357 Sig 115g JHP (4" barrel)........1500 fps / 575 ft.lbs. |
| Honestly everytime I see someone post a question about the .357sig I know there are going to be some haters. I have shot this round since Texas Highway Patrol implemented it and it's an amazing round. I see the only drawback is to be the ammo prices. I shoot my Sig 239 in .357sig and my Sig 226 in .357sig and it's cheapest to buy bulk(obvious). I'm not a reloader but with the ammo prices going up, I'm really thinking about it. When you asked the question whether there's a lot of benefits over the 9mm, I would ask you what you're buying the P2000 for? CCW or range queen? If you're buying it for CCW I would say go for the .357sig, you'll love it. You'll know that IF you HAVE to use your CCW, the .357sig isn't going to allow him to recover and lie in court. I can tell you what caliber that one of our local PD officer is NOT using anymore... Schertz PD shootout |
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357sig is imo the best caliber available in semi-auto the only issue is 1) its popularity making it not as "less expensive" as it could/should be it's perfect if only we could bring it down to .22 prices it would rival the .45,9mm,40s&w it's a wonderful round just too expensive to make it popular and practical |
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Anytime now, someone will post that Sanow gelatin pic to support the argument that there's no difference between .357 Sig and 9mm +P. I own a .357 Sig and like the hell out of it when I can afford to buy ammo. It makes sense to me that it should be a more effective manstopper. Problem is that I can't really argue with the cavity. So I've asked before and I'll ask again; there should be plenty of shoots with the round by now. Is there any definitive or even anecdotal terminal ballistics evidence that shows the .357 Sig outperforms a 9mm +P? |
I was arguing on 1911forums about this. I shoot my range buddies P226 in .357. It barks more, recoils more and definitley hits pins with more authority. But the posted gel tests don't back it up. I like the round, but can't get too excited about it. |
Been around for awhile dude. 147 grain .357 sig |
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My buddy is a Secret Service Agent and they use the .357 Sig. he loves it; recoil is manageable but there is a lot of muzzle flash. A SS Agent (different guy) was involved in an off duty shooting at a mall here in DC recently. He was hit ny a gang banger and returned fire, htting the banger once in the pelvis with his issue .357 Sig. One shot stop. |
Did Kennedy ever say why he shot at Kunz? WTF... |
That's interesting. I know it' too far back for you to remember, but I'm curios as to which particular .357 sig round was used in the test? More so, if it was a standard round, or a hot load. Should we assume that the 10mm was not included in that test? I have hard time believing that the .357 sig round outperformed a 10mm, especially a hot load. |
i also read an impromptu test comparing the favorite (higher energy) LEO JHP loads ( 124+p and 147 for 9mm, 165 and 180 for .40, 125gr for .357sig, and 230gr for .45acp)--brands included Speer, Federal, and WInchester, and corbon shots were placed through a car hood with a windshield and a target behind the wheel all penetrated, except for the 180gr .40, which supposidly made a "fist size" dent in the hood; .357sig supposidly went through w/ the least amount of difficulty .357sig has got its place...but, for non-barrier issues, i'd think that they are all good to go YMMV |
Its actually an image by Doug Carr, and its popularity came because it is used by Dr Roberts, and other Drs and former IWBA members, over on Tactical Forums. Ed Sanow represents the one shot stop BS, and all of the lies and fiction that goes along with it. .357sig is what it is, another viable choice for a SD/HD weapon. It is not magic, it is not a wonder round, it is a fast 9mm. It makes a 9mm hole, and when compared to 9mm rounds of either standard pressure or +P, it penetrates about the same. It does have slightly better intermediate barrier penetration than some others, but one has to weigh that pro over the more recoil, less capacity, more muzzle flash, etc. I know many will say, "but it has more energy!", and if you buy into, well ok. However, science says it doesnt make a huge difference. As for the Air Marshalls, the last two I trained with dropped the P229 chambered in .357sig firing 125gr Speer GDHPs in favor of a Glock G19 loaded with I dunno what. Before that class, I trained with only two others one carried the SIG, and another carried an HK P2K. At the Paul Gomez class, with the two FAMs, the comment was made, "You'd be surprised how many opt out of the .357sig". |
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I am curious about how the bottle neck shape affects reliability. When it first cme out, one of the pros listed for it was that it could increase reliability because it is pretty easy to stuff a 9mm object into a 10mm hole. I know most rounds are tapered or the like, so maybe the point is kind of moot, but it does also kind of make sense. There is also the the premise (that I just made up) that the bottle neck design could be more susceptible to nose diving in a magazine. Either way, I am not going to laugh at anyone if they choose a .357sig. It seems to have been one of the more successful handguns rounds and isn't going to linger and die like the gap or .41ae. |
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One thing very few people take into account is the noise generated by their choice of firearm. In a self defense situation you won't be wearing hearing protection and while auditory exclusion will minimize the perceived noise of the instinct it will NOT minimize the hearing damage you will incur. I see no real advantage to the .357sig over a good 9mm +p. |