Posted: 10/19/2006 8:53:43 AM EDT
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*First Post* Hey Guys, I've been lurking around reading for a couple weeks soaking up everything in the AR forum and in this forum. I have just recently been introduced to shooting (I've only been once) and I've only fired an AR-15 and a 12ga. I'm looking into getting my own gun to use only for plinking, something that I could obtain cheaply, maintain cheaply, and shoot cheaply. I have looked at some of the .22s but I'm not really a fan of the Ruger's, and I didn't really look at the price so I'm not sure how much they are. I wouldn't mind a .22 but I want something that looks like a real gun, not to dis on ruger owners. I would also be interested in 9mm guns but I don't really know to much about which are reliable and how much many of them cost. So post up what you think would be best for me, I will try to make an attempt to get out and try before I buy but that may not be an option. Also I am only 19 and not really sure what the gun laws are. I am in CO going to school, but live in IL. So obviously I'd want to keep the gun in CO because I am here for 8 months a year and IL gun laws are insane. I believe that in CO I could pretty much just walk into a store and walk out with a gun, but I'm not really sure. TIA, Kevin |
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A 4" revolver in .357 is the best gun to buy for your first. - you can start out on mild .38 rounds which are also cheap - you can quickly advance to .38+P when you get the hang of it - you can move up to .357 death dealers after that (Few other guns give you 3 choices of ammo) - revolvers don't require lots of money on magazines or replacement springs - revolvers are the simplest modern firearm made - revolvers are the best and most realistic to dry fire practice with (critical for beginners) - revolvers are priced well for people just getting started (spend your $$$ on a good CCW later) I started with a 1911 and have no regrets, but I don't see you getting a REAL USGI for $300  As for IL, you can't buy from a store, but you might be able to buy from a private individual. The key is if they have registration there. If so, possession of an unregistered firearm is a crime and they will usually require a minimum age of 21 for registration, so by default persons under 21 can't legally possess handguns themselves. Check your local laws. |
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welcome. theres an old saying. "beggers cant be choosers". it applies to guns too. you want a cheap (inexpensive) gun and be able to feed it, yet you rule out probably the best optiion for you? Rugers are fine guns and are inexpensive. the Semis and SAs start in the 250 range and go from there. If you can find a used one, they are less expensive then that. you should be able to get 22s for <.02/round. ~500 round for $10.00 for 22s. 9mm are in the .10 range. If you want inexpensive there are some New & Used options. Taurus Heratige Arms H&R High Standard Ruger BTW. You may not be able to purchase a handgun in CO unless you are a "resident". maybe some CO resident can verify/correct that. also, since youre not 21 y/o, fed laws prohibit you too. |
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Giant +1 on starting with a .22 Right now you need to... Learn trigger control Practice handling discipline Practice accurate shooting Practice often without tearing a hole in your wallet Overcome any fear of recoil Etc. Plus, and this is a big plus, you will always have a need for a .22, no matter how old you are or how many guns you have. They are just too handy to not have one. Now, as to what you should get? How the hell should I know? That said, I would not worry too much about looking for one that looks "cool" and not "dorky" like the Rugers. The folks that give you a hard time about what your pistol looks like will shut up when you show them the target from 25, 50, 75, and even 100 yards. There is no substitute for being competent and proficient. I like, and in this order. 1 Ruger Mark II or Mark III (or 22/45 for that matter) 2 SIG Mosquito (lots of "coolness") 3 Walther P22 (a little less "coolness", but more aftermarket goodies) Those are the ones I'm familiar with. You could always buy a good 1911 and get a .22 conversion kit for it, but then you may have busted your budget. Conversion kits are available from these guys for many different guns, if that's the route you take. More than anything, you, like everyone else, needs to practice. A good .22 is the most cost effective way to make sure that your wallet is not the limiting factor when it comes to range time. My $ .02 Good luck. |
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Glock 19. Glocks have no safety and require the trigger to be pulled to disassemble them, so they aren't "rookie" guns in my opinion, so if you are completely new to guns a 357 revolver might be a better bet. Probably you would be best served with a .22 pistol like a Ruger or Browning Buckmark, but who's going to buy a .22 for their first pistol? 
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kevintee, Tell me where you are in Colorado. As a student you may be able to claim dual residency, which is allowed under the GCA (Gun Control Act). Go to a gun store and get a copy of Form 4473 and read the fine print. As an out-of-state resident you can still buy a long arm from a licensed dealer in Colorado, but the dealer will have to conform to the laws of your home state (IL) for the transfer. So you'll have to show your FOID card from IL. As an in-state (dual) resident you can buy a long arm from a licensed dealer in Colorado, but most dealers get jitters over any transfer that is not plain Jane, so go get a Colorado Drivers license or a Colorado ID card (non-DL). As long as you flash a Colorado gov't ID you'll be OK. You can possess a handgun in Colorado at age 18. You simply cannot buy it from a federally licensed dealer because they are restricted to selling handguns to persons 21+. Email me and I'll get you some links to regulations. ([email protected]) I used to be an FFL. 27 CFR 178.11: MEANING OF TERMS An out-of-State college student may establish residence in a State by residing and maintaining a home in a college dormitory or in a location off-campus during the school term. ATF Rul. 80-21 "State of residence" is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or maintains a home. The regulation also provides an example of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer months of the year. The regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y. Applying the above example to out-of- State college students it is held, that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off-campus home is located. During the time out-of-State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State. [ATFB 1980-4 25] |
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Thanks alot everybody, I'll be checking out all the guns you recommended. As far as me I live On Campus at the University of Denver. I would not keep the gun here, but rather at a friends ranch (which has a range at it) thats about an hour from here. I am very interested in whether I could get a Colorado State ID without relinquishing my IL Drivers Liscense. I will be going back to IL after Schools over so no sense in changing too much stuff. Lexington I will send you an Email thanks. |
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Learn more and check the Equipment Exchange here for used options - you will save a lot of cash that you can then put into practice ammo and range fees. For .22 pistols, a Ruger MkII or a Browning Buckmark are hard to beat. The Walther P22 is kind of fun, albeit small in my hands, and note that some are problematic (mine was one of them). The CZ Kadet is also supposed to be great, but since I have never owned one, I cannot comment beyond holding one. If you are new to guns, and are a student on a budget, then .22 offers your cheapest practice ammo. Easy to find 500 rounds under $10. 9mm is more like 100 rounds for $10. Plus with almost no recoil, you can concentrate on learning form up front, and then moving to bigger guns when you want to. Another option to look at is revolvers. A .357 revolver may be had relatively cheap (S&W or Ruger). You can load it with soft .38 specials and practice relatively cheaply as well. A 3-4" .357 revolver from S&W or Ruger will be close to indestructible, and easy to learn/practice. Just my $0.02, which should probably be discounted given the day I am having. |
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If you're nuts about M1911's, the Kimber .22lr is okay, but if you're indifferent, another huge +1 on something in .357. If you plan on definitely not keeping it, just get something reliable. If you're inherently sentimental, perhaps spend a wee bit more on something better, possible later adding rubber grips, etc. K9 9mm is pretty good for the price class, but at that point, you're within price range where you choose on style first, caliber second. |
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I like ruger markII's, but they are not really a beginner gun. I have not If you start with a .22, I think it is better off being a rifle or carbine of some sort. That is just me though. I like the .357 suggestion. Ammo can be had in .38 cheaply, like $6 for 50 rounds, and a .357 revolver is pretty versatile. |
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I second (or third) the SIG Mosquito since that's the look you want. SIG Mosquito |
Too bad you're down on Rugers. I've seen new 10/22s on the sporting goods flyer in my Sunday paper for as low as $149. Any centerfire ammo is going to cost a lot more than .22 Long rifle. If you don't like the 10/22, but want a semi-auto, you might also want to look at the Thompson Centers and other semi-autos. If semi-auto isn't a requirement, take a look at the CZ-452. It is a darned good bolt action .22 for the money. |
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One problem you may have is being 19. I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun or handgun ammo. That said, for .22s either a Ruger or Browning Buckmark. I own a Buckmark and love it. Accurate, reliable & cheap to shoot. Walmart here has bricks of 550 rounds for under $9. Also if you don't like the grip angle on the Ruger, the Buckmark may be more to your liking, at least it was for me. If you want a bigger caliber, & want to be able to shoot for cheap, 9mm is the way to go. If you're trying to stay relatively cheap here, maybe a Springfield XD9 or a CPO trade in SIG. There are a lot of good 9mms out there though. Handle a bunch and find one that fits well in your hand & is within your budget. Also, find a range with rental guns. Don't know where you are in IL, but Megasports in Joliet has a big selection. If you're further up north, GAT Guns in Dundee has a decent selection. South of Joliet, I don't really know. |
+1, or a Ruger 22/45 or a Mk II IF you opt for a 9mm (which would be my 2nd recommendation for its next cheapest ammo and best availability and still make minimum carry size), i'd second the G19 |
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If you’re just starting, a .22 Long Rifle makes the most sense. Ammo is dirt cheap – which means you can shoot a lot. Plus the report and recoil is mild . This makes it easier to learn to shoot accurately – which ultimately is the name of the game (as opposed to simply making a lot of noise and creating a mound of empty shell casings). I really like the Browning Buckmark myself. It handles and has controls that are not too far removed from a 1911. OTOH, I admit I don’t like the two screws that have to removed for disassembly. The Ruger .22 semi is also a fine pistol. Another possibility is a revolver like a Ruger Single Six or a Ruger Bearcat, though loading and unloading them through a side gate can be a bit tedious. S&W has some nice .22’s with swing-out cylinders, but they tend to be a bit pricey. |
In Red^ Part of the reason I don't like the Ruger is just the Look, its too much like the German Luger which I have never liked the look of. I like the way the mosquito looks and how it seems to simulate a "real" pistol, but I've searched and read a few unfavorable reviews about its reliability and trigger weight. Anyone have any additional input on this? |
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Getting a handgun is going to be a PITA at your age unless your parents buy you one in IL. Skip this and buy a rifle. Handguns in general are bit harder to master and require more practice to remain proficient with. In college you will not have the free time (a better way of saying that you shouldn't have the free time) to be able to shoot every weekend. Thats the working part of a Saturday or sunday plus the 2 hours of driving. Saturday night you'll party and sunday morning you sleep it off, and sunday afternoon you do the school work for monday that you didn't do saturday. Also many many schools still have shooting teams, usually with 22's. If your serious check into that. CX4 Beretta Storm Carbine. ~500 used good condition usually. Takes Beretta pistol mags and can be had in 9, 40 or 45. Excellent companion to a beretta pistol (same mags) Edit: I wouldn't take this 22 advice to heart. I started shooting on 5.56mm and 45 ACP. For me the cheap 22 ammo doesnt outway the benefit of not having a combat/self defense capible firearm. 22's are just not serious in that role, and if you only have one or two guns, then they should be able to perform the self defense role. 9mm isn't THAT expensive, and if your not squirrel hunting I fail to see the pay off for a 22 base weapons system. |
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For my money, I absolutely love my Ruger GP-100. .357 Magnum, 4" bbl. Out of the box, the first time I shot it, I was hitting a target at 75 feet! Not too accurately, but for a four inch barrel, that is pretty good! I don't know about 'dorkiness,' but the Rugers look fine to me. To my eye, the semiauto pistols look like the semis of the 40s and 50s. Best bet: a wheelgun, .357 Magnum for the same reasons quoted by Pulpsmack, primarily for the different types of ammo you can use in it. Your .357 makes a fine personal defense weapon, too. With speedloaders, it can be reloaded almost as quickly as a magazine-fed pistol. With a .357, you can also get a 'companion' carbine, by several manufacturers, They are fun to shoot, and the longer barrel ads considerably to the effectiveness of either the .38 or .357 round. I own several Rugers, and NONE of them have given me ANY mechanical problems out of the box! |
Rifle: AR-15 VERY accurate, ammo is widely available, etc... My first rifle was a 20" AR, M16A2-style... And yes, you can get a .22lr upper if you wish to shoot that caliber... Pistol: Beretta 92 or HK USP, 9mm Better caliber to 'learn on' (price, availability, and controlability) than any of the bigger rounds, effective, and pretty much 'the standard' pistol round... Everyone has their preferences, but a 'conventional' pistol with a hammer & manual safety is my idea of 'where to start'... The USP has the advantage of being able to be fired single-action (eg you can put it on safe without de-cocking it), but it's a bit more expensive... You will probably eventually get both... Stay away from revolvers (bad trigger, easy to learn bad habits) and 'compact' pistols to start... |
To clarify, I was speaking of law in Colorado. Illinois state law may be different and I don't claim to know it. In fact, IL is just as screwed up as CA, NY, MA, and MD to name a few of the most restrictive states. Stick to what I wrote you via email IN COLORADO and you'll be OK. |
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Chances are, U cannot buy a new gun from a dealer until U are 21. But your state may allow 18 year olds to buy one from a private party. As I had planned to say - everyone here has their advice on what U should buy. My advice can be found here: I made a sticky because this question comes up a lot... www.handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=2496 Visit: www.handgunforum.net |
I really do want an AR but its not in the wallet right now so thats kind of a non-issue. I would like a bigger caliber pistol, but I don't feel that I can really afford it. I can't afford to drop more than probably 250-300 dollars on a gun, and then with a larger caliber the ammo is gonna add up too. Lexington: I understood that what you told me was the CO law, I just forgot to mention it in that other post. I am not looking to buy in IL because of the crazy laws we have their, and I also spend 8 months of the year here in CO. |
Correct. This is what I have been telling him, and I have sent links to both Federal and State statutes as well. A long gun will be his easiest acquisition, but he can get a handgun if he can find a private party that understands the laws. I suspect most parties will back away, though, because the "over 21" bias is pervasive. |
You're definately closer to GAT. Joliet would be a bit of a cruise. I'm think GAT has a Ruger & a Buckmark for rent. They've got a decent selection of 9mms. After re-reading your post, I noticed you're mainly interested in plinking, not SD. In that case, definately go with a 22. It'll be a lot easier to find something in your price range. Also with the price of 22 ammo, range fees will be more of a concern than the cost of ammo. Even if you decide that you want a bigger caliber in a fews years when you're out of college and have a bit more cashflow, a 22 will still be usefull. I've got a couple of 9mms, but my Buckmark gets used every trip to the range. Saves a lot of cash & lets me practice for longer. I know a few people that tried to give me grief over buying a 22, but they shut up when they find out I can shoot all day & spend less than $10 on ammo. The 9mms still get used every trip, most of the rounds go through the 22. The more $$$ you save on ammo, the more you can afford to practice. |