Posted: 2/18/2003 1:08:30 PM EDT
|
I've been looking at 1911's a bit and learning more about them as a potential purchase. However, I haven't found many brands or models that stick out from the rest in terms of quality or reputation. I recently got my first handgun, a Smith & Wesson 686. It's a great gun, and part of its appeal to me is its popularity. I like its reputation as being both high quality and fairly common among revolvers. I mention this because this MAY be what I'm looking for in a 1911 as well. Therefore, I am looking for advice on what brands and models would be recommended for what will probably be my only 1911. I know there are many brand loyalists out there, but please try to be objective. I want high quality, and am willing to pay for it. The gun would be used for occasional carry. I mainly want it to add to my recently-started gun collection and would only be shooting it at the range. The 686 would remain my self defense gun. Any responses are welcome. PS. Anyone know of a GOOD 1911 site with lots of info? Thanks, smithyman |
|
For a good starting point, www.sightm1911.com All makes have their points (objective enough?) I have no real brand loyalty, but I like 'em to say Colt, given the option. My favorite, knock about, beater .45 is a S&W 645. For target shootin', I rely on my parkerized SA, with only the adjustable rear sight added. Happy hunting! |
I think the best buy in 1911 pistols is currently the Les Baer TR Special... and this is coming from a guy who owns examples from almost every major maker plus a few custom guns. For $1685 retail you get a phenomenally accurate pistol built with quality components by knowledgeable craftsman. Quality through and through is the trademark of every Les Baer pistol. My next choice (if not another LB) would be anything by Ed Brown followed up by the Wilson Combat CQB. All of these guns are no doubt expensive but each of them is well worth it, giving the end user much more value than what is actually paid, IMO. Now with all that being said for your first 1911 this may be ‘jumping the gun’ so to speak. You may very well be better served with a gun that doesn’t require such an initial cost outlay and will let you determine what you like and dislike about the 1911 with out spending $1500+. Get yourself a new Series 80 colt or even better a new Series 70 and shoot the hell out of it. Flush out what you think you need and don’t need on a 1911 or even if you like one enough to spend a big heaping pile of cash on it and go from there. Plus 1911s that are true to JMB’s specs are customizable from there and can be turned into a nice custom gun should you desire. |
|
Wilson Combat, I have three Kimber Custom Shop 1911's and love them all. A vast improvement over the Colt 1911's I have owned in years past. I just this year stumbled upon a new Wilson CQB Commander size priced really low so I traded for it, like I need another 1911? Well, yeah I did in fact need this Wilson CQB...rock solid, best 1911 I have ever fired, accurate, smooth, and tight like nothing I have ever fired. Did I mention the trigger? Woah! Make me wonder if Wilson can be this much better at AR-15's than the rest of the pack! |
|
I have several 1911 style .45's as well. A Detonics Scoremaster, two Colt Govt Model Series '70's and a Series '70 Combat Commander. I had one of the Govt Models and the Combat Commander worked on by a pistolsmith I trust, Rick Niemer, formerly of Detonics. They are both joys to shoot. If you can be patient, cruise the guns shows and find yourself a Series '70. I'm sure AJohnston has some insight as to which pistolsmiths are worthwhile. As a sidenote question to AJohnston. What do you think of the Les Baer and FBI HRT contract situation? I came across this website for a serious 1911. http://www.cqbproducts.com/MKC1911.htm It seems to be purpose built for combat. Does anyone here have any first hand experience with it? |
|
I think any 1911 that you like, that is reliable, will fit the bill. The Baer's and Wilsons and such can be MUY EXPENSIVE, but will be awesome handguns. Never handled any myself. Budget limits me to the more common brands. I have a Springfield Stainless Loaded 1911A1. I love it. Not the tightest pistol, but reliable as hell. Used to fail to go into battery, but it was caused by a burr on the spring plug where the guide rod went through. Swapped in a recoil reduction rod and plug, and it's run great. Eats everything I feed it. EVERYTHING. Not amazingly accurate, but I can hit COM pretty easy in IDPA at most ranges. I think you should get the best you can afford, whether it's a Springfield or Kimber, or on up to a Wilson or Baer, and you won't be dissapointed. Nothing fits the hand and feels like a 1911... nothing! |
Stony - I don’t know about any current contracts between the FBI and LB. However, if you’re referring to the former contract for Les to build the FBI HRT pistol and the subsequent guns (both FBI and commercial SRPs) that used Baer slides on Para frames I would say one would be much better served to stick with a single stack 1911. I am not a fan of double stack 1911s and I’m even less of a fan of Paras in general. I think that the former FBI gun could have been spec'd out much better and as a result we now have the fantastic Springfield PRO. Baer is very capable of building an accurate and reliable 1911 and can even do so using double stack frames provided they are of good quality, which I don’t believe Paras are. Although the guns themselves worked the magazines were a large stumbling block of the former HRT pistol, much as they often are with allot of double stack guns. Double stack magazines combined with ramped barrels simply don’t work as well as the original JMB design. On top of that Paras frames, witch are not only substandard in quality but have certain design restrictions that a traditional single stack 1911 does not, were, IMO, the a poor choice for a double stack 1911. Caspian would have been a much better choice but as I recall the way the FBI worded the specifications and conditions for the pistol they basically spelled out the maker Para-Ordnance. These guns were in service for a pretty short period of time (pistol submissions began in June of ’94 and the Springfield PRO won the new contract in 1998) and only 75 of the LB HRT pistols were ever delivered to the FBI. It’s my understanding that Matt Gish did most of the work on the trial Baer HRT pistols and a short time after he left to start his own business pistolsmithing. Once delivery began the guns started to suffer lots of problems that many could be traced back to a lack of quality magazines and the timing issues related to double stack 1911s. Towards the end the FBI brought in Steve Nastoff to help make the guns that had been delivered right. After all the time and money spent developing the Para based HRT gun the FBI realized that there is just no improving on Browning’s original design for an all steel 5” single stack 1911. Like myself, I’m sure that the end users of these guns would much rather have a few 7 or 8 round magazines that worked than a couple of moody 14 rounders that kind of work. And this brings up an interesting point..... One will notice that those who use 1911s in their daily routine because their life or the life of another may depend on it tend to choose traditionally configured single stack 1911s. Not to say that across the board a double stack 1911can’t be or isn’t reliable but just that the single stack configuration with a traditional feed ramp assembly is inherently more reliable. Double stack 1911s may be good for IPSC or other games but it’s my opinion that when it comes to fighting one should stick with a 5” single stack 1911. Just my 2 cents. |
|
Pass the popcorn. It's like asking what is the best band of the 90's. I would say Wilson is the "best". All things considered. Lifetime warranty say's alot. I can't afford one right now so I'm getting a Kimber Custom CDP II  I'm ordering it all black same as the frame and with a magazine speed chute. I like it. I've shot them both and other than a smoother trigger and a nicer break on the Wilson I could not tell a difference. |
|
Al, I've heard similar comments, but wanted to get your's out there for some of the less experienced users. I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding Para's. I'll be honest in that LB's FBI event unfairly biased my opinion. I'm glad to have gotten your insight. I know several guys locally who have Para's and to quote Lubber Lang ", I pity da fools!" One or two of the guys at my gun club are fortunate enough to have Nastoff pistols and they love them. |
Stony - I’ve never seen a Nastoff pistol in person but a friend of mine who is a Nastoff owner swears he’ll let me shoot his if he ever goes back to Ohio to get it.... and I am definitely holding my breath for that one. I know all about biased opinions, I’ve got a couple, and all I can say is the LB HRT gun just reaffirmed my distain for Paras and double stack 1911s in general. I had a chance to handle a Para based Baer SRP gun a that I was considering adding to my collection... and then I put my head back on straight. Although I would like to own one just for the collector factor I’ll wait until someone gets fed up with grumpy magazines and cast frames so I can get into it cheap. Now the Springfield PRO model... that’s a hell of a pistol!! I just got back from SHOT show and handling the PRO convinced me allover again that I have to own one. I’m kicking myself for not buying the one Dane Burns had for $1550. |
Wilson, Les Baer, Springfield, Kimber - you can't go wrong with any of these. I'm a Colt fan and have two neat shooting Colt Gold Cups - one a National Match and the other a Trophy. I would also explore having a custom one built if you know of a good 1911 gunsmith. For the base price of a basic Colt or Springfield, approx $600 - add some goodies and at about the price of a Wilson or a Les Baer, you will have an awesome 1911. I've been tempted, but I keep going back to Colt - something about resale...as if I would ever sell any of my guns! Forgot to add - goto: www.1911.org |
|
In the past I had a Colt that had been "worked on a little" by the previous owner and I had reliability problems with it. Later, I bought a Springfield that was used and, I found out later from the guy who took it off my hands, "worked on a little" by the previous owner. I sold it off because I was having problems with it too. The guy I sold it to just wanted a frame and slide to build a race gun on and didn't care that I'd had some reliability issues since he was going to be rebuilding it anyway. Even though I'd struck out twice before with 1911s I still liked them and eventually spent the money, this time on a new Kimber. Third time was definitely the charm and I love my Kimber. I went for the basic model and the only changes have been a round backstrap and a 2 piece guide rod assy. Everything was fine before and these 2 things are personal preference issues that didn't affect performance or reliability. I guess the lesson is buy new so you know what you're getting. 
|
|
www.pistolsmith.com I am a Springfield fan. They make a quality product at a wide price range. Havnt had a problem with the 4 I own. |
|
I have been researching 1911’s since the first of the year; and I still do not know, really where to begin! Two websites that have been helpful: www.m1911.org www.sightm1911.com P.S. I have been stuck on purchasing a (used) Kimber – they just seem to be the best value. However, I just fell in love with Wilson Combat’s KZ-45 series! The resale on Wilson Combat is still too expensive for my first 1911! Good Luck! |
| I had a Kimber Custom Classic that would start to hang up after about 40 rnds. I replaced the factory 16lb recoil spring with a Wilson 18lb spring and the problem of FTF still happened. I got rid of it after I bought a USP45. I've also shot 3 other 1911s that buddies own on more than one ocasion. They are a Springfeild Champion, Colt 1991A1, & Auto Ordance. I've seen all three jam with different types ammo and shooters. I still want a 1911, just want to find a reliable one. Also, and think other folks will agree, don't cheap out on your mags. Buy some Wilson mags. I think next time I'll go with a Wilson 1911 and Wilson mags. |
|
www.1911forum.com You're going to open a huge can of worms asking that question. I think if you want .45 (and you know it's an expensive round and it has a lot of recoil, etc.) get a Mil-Spec from Springfield Armory or a Colt Series 80 pistol. Something basic to learn and familiarize yourself with. That's what I would do if I did it all over again (instead of getting a Para Ord P14.45 Ltd). |
|
Kimber all the way. They have taken the 1911 market by storm. They now sell more 1911s per year than any other company. Kimber, Wilson, and many other companies all use the same frames. The frames are made by a company called Jericho. It's mainly the packaging and amount of customizing that differs. You can't go wrong with a Kimber. They are to 1911s like what Bushmaster is to AR15s. Newer to the market, but, in my opinion, make better products than the old companies. |
|
If you want the best then your talking about getting a custom m1911 from Larry Vickers If thats too much cash then there are these; - Valtro m1998a1 - Les Baer Premier 2 Super-Tac - Wilson Combat CQB If you can't afford to get one of those then go for a Springfield or Kimber. |
