Posted: 5/9/2006 8:16:59 AM EDT
Ive had a feel for both, and they both fit about equally well in, just in different aspects. For those of you who own or have owned both previously, which do you think would be the better choice? This isnt for CCW although the USP does seem a little large for a 9mm. They each have their own features that I cant decide between so maybe you guys can help me out. From what I hear H&K also gives lifetime warranties as opposed to sigs 3 year? Anyway im open to all suggestions, even the compact felt good but if I get a 9, its gotta be hicap
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It matters which one has the features and fit you like better. Both are quality pistols, but different. I had a Sig P226R that I got rid of last year and it was a great pistol, but wasn't right for me. The controls are in a bad spot for me as a lefty and I prefer a safety. I've always prefered a safety to have that locked off trigger making it just a little more protected from accidental discharge if the pistol was ever to fall from my holster or off the counter or get hit by something in my pack, etc. etc, plus be a safer choice for multiple users with less training. I do like my pistols cocked and locked with that safety on and continue to train as I did in the military and before to draw and flick off the safety quickly in one fluid motion same as any rifle I use. It keeps it all in one mindset for me of any weapons status to make it more of a natural habit as time's gone on instead of task you need to think about. I can draw just as fast with my Beretta's as any other pistol without a safety and have that round in my target just the same. Either is a good choice and it's just which one works best for you. I'm looking at buying a HKcompact 9mm myself here soon, and having shot them quite a bit, there an excellent choice. The compact 9mm's do hold 13 rounds too and are alot smaller than the fullsize. You might give them another look. HKUSA |
| Thanks for the input Achilles, another thing I was interested in was the recoil reduction system, ive always wondered how well that held up especially in the .40S&W as from what I recall the USP was built around it. Ive pretty much made up my mind im going with the H&K, but I may be interested in the .40 as it only sacrifices 2 rounds as opposed to the 9mm. If i had the time i'd hit the range and rent them but that wont be possible for another couple weeks, so until then I'll continue my research. Thanks again |
HK gurantees 20,000 rounds for the system. I have one in .40 S&W and it works pretty well. It doesn't seem to keep the kick down that much, I've shot several other pistols in .40 S&W and it seems to recoil just about the same. However, I think what it does has more to do with the internals of the pistol. It is supposed to lessen wear and tear. Any serious use at all demands a larger caliber than the 9mm. Pure range use, it is fine to use the 9mm. But if you have even the slightest inclination to use it for defense, you will be at a huge advantage using a .40 S&W. Caliber wars are a big flame war, but there is no denying that a .40 S&W has a larger hole with hollow points and FMJ. 9mm gives you capacity, a measly 2 more rounds. I went with the .40 S&W, but plenty here have chosen other calibers. |
Who says thats as long as the damn thing lasts? Its only how long they garuantee it for. My hard drives only have 3 year warranties, but I have some that I have had working for 5 years, even longer. Just because thats as long as it is garuanteed for, doesnt mean thats as long as it is going to work. Get a clue. |
Both are really great pistols. Here is what I say: .40 S&W is a hard round to get used to, but if you can master it you will be rewarded with excellent performance. I highly recommend it, if you have the time and patience to become proficient with it. Regardless of what people said, the HK USP was originally made for the .40 S&W round. The SIG P229 was made for the .40 S&W round as well. The P226 was not. At the time of the 229's inception the SIG P226's slide was made from a serious of sheets of metal welded and hammered together. The P226 in this style wasn't able to handle the .40 S&W round, so SIG designed a new pistol, the P229 which used a slide machined from a solid billet of steel. Currently, SIG P226 slides are now done using the same process. The HK USP incorporates several features, including a tougher finish than regular SIG pistols. Now all SIG pistols will come with a standard rail, the HK does not. Although the USP comes with a rail, it was one of the first companies to do this and took a gamble by creating their own rail system. Unfortunately for HK owners it never really took off. In addition, the USP comes with a recoil reduction system. This helps reduce wear and tear on the gun, a feature that was implemented to deal with the high pressures the .40 S&W generates. It is due to these higher pressures that experienced shooters often say the .40 S&W round is much snappier than a lower pressure round like the .45 ACP. The advantage to these higher pressure rounds is that the .40 S&W bullet in a hollow point configuration will expand to something like .80 caliber, exactly the same as the venerable .45 ACP, and even still the .40 S&W is coming out of a 4 inch barrel, compared to the .45 ACPs 5 inch. The main deciding factors for buyers of these two awesome handguns are the controls. SIG has a decocker lever, that’s it. HK does a step further to allow the user to adjust the pistol to nine different configurations. The stock factory configuration is V1, which does the following: 1. Safety ON; Hammer Down 2. Safety ON; Hammer Cocked (The famous cocked and locked for which the 1911 and USP is so loved) 3. Safety ON; Hammer Half-Cocked (This is the position the hammer falls to when "de-cocked") Simply flip the lever up, and the safety is on. Push down one click and the safety is off. Push down further and the hammer will fall to the half-cock position. Very nice setup and its a great thing to have. If you have no need for a safety, or have a specific configuration that you want, change the variant. The lever can be adjusted for a left or right handed shooter. Additionally the USP is also lighter due to its polymer frame. The SIG makes use of an aluminum frame which adds some heft to the gun. It also give you a sense that the gun was built to last. Very nice feeling on the SIG. USP has a bit more checkering, and gives a better grip. Good luck! I hoped this helped! |
Get a 9mm. I just sold my USP .40 to get a USP 9. Plus, it will give you an excuse to buy a USP .45 Tactical later on 
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They are about the same. USP DA sucks. Even USP SA (unless installed match trigger) is slightly worse than Sig SA (not as cleanly breaking and pretty much very mushy). Sig is quite bulky (so is USP, but not as much as a Sig), the USP...watch out for hi cap mag prices. Not that Sig mags are a lot cheaper... I've had both before, but no more. Found better ones Edited out the mistake... Thank you K_M
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I do have a clue and that is why I choose to shoot SIG. SIG will replace a gun that has problems even if the round count is in the hundreds of thousands. HK will laugh at you. SIG>HK in every way. |
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My opinion on the major handgun brands. Sig: -Bore axis is too damn high -Very nice fit and finish -slides have a tendency to rust easily...especially my Sig 228 Hk: -Triggers suck -Feels like a cheap gun with a major price tag -Customer service is even worse -Magazines are expensive -replacement parts hard to find Glock: -Great selection of aftermarket parts -Tennifer slide very resistant to corrosion even with no finish left on -Grip angle sucks ass -Good price especially on used ones -Design is boring and nothing to really appreciate 1911 major manufacturers -Great feel -Great for people with small hands -reliability can be very iffy with cheap models -Good models will run you $700 + -Good availability of aftermarket parts. -triggers are awesome...never really had a 1911 trigger I didnt like Springfield XD: -Finish especially on Blued models is a little iffy -Reminds me of just a GLOCK copy -Great safety features including loaded chamber/grip safety/cocking indicator -boring design like GLOCK -Bore axis not too bad but still a little more flip than I prefer Ruger: -Built like tanks -Ugly -Inexpensive -Triggers suck -accuracy nothing great This looks as if I am getting a little off topic but the point is to show that every major manufacturer has issues with design features/reliability/durability or whatever. Weigh what is most important to you(features/durability/quality/price) and go shoot it. Than narrow your selection after that based on how well you shot each firearm. For me, my current favorite handgun is a Glock 26 with pinky pearce extension. Of the two you have to choose personally I would go with a SIG STAINLESS SLIDE version. I will never buy HK EVER AGAIN due to the fact that they treated me like a disease when I was inquiring about buying some of the flat baseplates for my HK P2000 SK which I no longer own based on my experiences with their customer service. If I am not good enough for them...then they dont need my money. |
That is complete bullshit. The P229 was built on an existing frame, the P228's frame and the P229 frame are the same. A heavier slide was needed for .40, but don't go saying it was an entirely new gun, that's a bunch of shit. It was built on an existing frame. |
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Who cares who had the first gun that was designed for the .40? That is a dumbass reason to buy any gun. Personally, I carry a Sig 229. Feels natural in my hand, is accurate and 100% reliable and will run wet, dry and dirty. SIGS will not rust if the slide is stainless, many of the older models are blued stamped steel. I have carried mine in all types of weather and the only rust was on the grip screws which I replaced with some nickel plated ones. IMHO the SIG 226 Navy is the best 9mm out there. If I wanted a fullsize 9mm that is what I would choose. |
How do you know that? Have you been laughed at by HK? Have you had Sig replace a gun that has 100,000+ rounds through it for free? Just curious to see if you're speaking from experience, or out your poop chute. One guy wanted his springs replaced, and Sig offered to do it for 125 bucks with a "reliability pacakge". I doubt they'll replace a handgun for free, or replace parts for free. BTW...HK's don't need replacing after 100,000 rounds. Theres quite a few of them with more rounds than that through them without issue. I guess your opinion is exact opposite of mine. But I have yet to find anything a Sig does better than an HK. Thats why I sold mine and kept my HK's. I also understand HK's customer service has a bad rep. Unfortunately, a while back this was true. However, they have gotten much much better. A guy on the forum had some issue with some weak mag springs in his USP .45 mags. HK asked him how many mags he had, and sent him replacement springs for all of his mags, for free. Over the past few years, it has been greatly improved. |
Actually replacing the springs is much cheaper then that from Sig. The person on the other end of the phone was just trying to "upsell" the reliability package, which is more then the guy needed. Perhaps you don't understand the retail industry, and neither did the guy with the Sig in this matter. The customer service phone reps are told by their bosses, who are told by their bosses, to upsell things, to try and coerce customers into spending more money. We do it at Starbucks all the time, and every other retail place, including HK, does it too. Replacing the springs from Sig completely with qual. check and everything is only $30. You could also buy the springs from MidwayUSA for $8 and find an online guide and replace them for free, yourself. I have no beef with SIG or HK, but the thread about $125 spring replacement is a joke. |
Yes, I understand it just fine. You completely missed my point. If they're going to charge a guy 125 dollars for a reliability package (as I stated it was in my post, not just springs) then they certainly arent going to just give him replacement parts if it gets worn out. Theres a fee for everything, even from Sig. |
Yes they are both great pistols. I guess I should have stated why I would get the 226. The grip on the 226 is much more comfortable to my personal grip, the trigger is more the way I like it on the 226 and my USP just was not that great when it came to accuracy although it was plenty good for self defense and it is a great pistol and reliable. It just was not thet impresive to me. My $400 CZs have been just as reliable and more accurate and have a better grip for me. The double action on the SIGs though are my favorite double action triggers. |
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Heres a link to a page about handgun bullet terminal ballistics. It has been around a few times but maybe you haven't seen it yet. I prefer 9mm. Others prefer larger fare, but I feel shot placement is all that matters in the world of pistols. I'd rather have a few mores rounds in the mag. www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000964 heres a pic from that page-  Basically hanguns are pretty sucky terminal performers. Bring a rifle or... a Shotgun  (flame suit on)
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