Posted: 4/27/2006 10:17:30 PM EDT
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I fired a thousand rounds of HSM full metal jacket through a G19 today. I got a couple jams where the slide locked nearly completely back and needed to be hit to move forward- they started and continued till I realized some carbon on top of the barrel needed to be wiped off- I wiped it off the top of the hood and it started working again. SO other than that issue like 15 times, I had a reliable day and the gun was barely oiled so I feel that was a pretty reliable show. I have three thousand more rounds to fire and in the spirit of my brother Evan in Kuwait, I am not going to clean it untill I finish the 4000rds. [It's his gun and he never cleans his Glocks]. It'll be a week or two before I'm done with that- my range is only open a couple days a week. My hand is raw- litterally I wore the skin off the web of my hand firing. I realized how nice gloves are.  I got slightly better to around 500rds and then I got faster but accuracy stayed constant- I felt that the pain in my hand was causing me to have issues flinching and hesitating recoil- the last 200rds were masicisticly painful. The HSM ammo was 100% sure fire and didn't cause any feeding or extraction issues. |
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Does the web of your hand (especially near the rear knuckle of your thumb) have drag marks on it from the slide? You may perhaps consider altering your grip. The premature lock back of the slide may be due to the position of your thumb dragging or lifting up the slide release lever. You should not be getting slide bite from a G19! I transistioned over to Glocks from shooting 1911s for years. Old habits die hard, and I used to "stack" my thumbs (the position I shoot my 1911s in- one thumb rides the safety, the other lays on top of the shooting hand's thumb). This contacted the slide on occassion and caused a jam, until I realized what I was doing. I also had trouble with premature slide lockback due to my thumb hitting the slide release lever. Rock on! |
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"I can't believe it jammed. Limpwristing???" HAHAHA. Yeah right. The slide slams back under full force and gets stuck back there forward of the slide catch [IE past that catch] and that is something I'm supposed to be able to replicate through limp wristing? The problem is carbon that builds on top of the barrel hood within 1/8th inch of the front of the notch in the slide. A few times it shot through it but others it recurred until I wiped the carbon off with my finger. It's a reliable gun my purpose was not to act like it was not reliable. I am impressed at how it ran through the case, but it wasn't flawless. I think it would be flawless through the first 75-150 rds or so which is more than enough to reliably get a user through the magazines he is carrying. I didn't get slide bite- I have skin rubbed off my hand from recoil and the plastic of the rear of the grip that rubs on the nuckle of my thumb. Every time I fire the plastic of the rounded squarish tang jabs me there and eventually it wore through like I was mowing the lawn all day. |
See. I told you it was limpwristing. Glad you finally admitted it.
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GOOD! Now you're figuring it out! Never forget the rules- All Glock malfunctions are caused by the shooter. All 1911 malfunctions are caused by the weapon design. All malfunctions involving Wolf ammo are caused by the ammo. Any other pistol malfunction is caused by the magazine. |
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Put another thousand rounds through the Glock today (well yesterday it's late). One malfunction- a magazine skipped a round and I dropped the mag inserted another and racked the slide- in the process of dropping the mag I realized it was still partially full. - maybe the barrel is breaking in or something. I kind of like the gun, but the only problems I have are related to the polymer at the rear of the grip that takes all my skin off at the second nuckle of my thumb do to repeated abrasion in recoil, and the trigger which has a lot of needless take-up slack, and that little safe action gizmo that occaisionally [rarely] gets hung up in a way that reminds me of a rusty gas pedal hinge or something. When that trigger thing happens it costs time and accuracy. The trigger also needs a lot of movement to reset, and if you are shooting for speed and accuracy the best thing to do seems to be to squeeze it and hold- release to the click [reset] and squeeze again- sometimes it seems like it's taking a longer time to let out all that trigger slack to get to the reset. [Compared to a 1911 that has like 1/32 or 1/16 of an inch of total travel that's a big difference]. Oh another observation, if you plan to put 1000rds through a pistol in a day- GET A SPEEDLOADER AND WEAR GLOVES. I got an SKS? speedloader tool and it cut time through the 1000 by about half, leaving time for 500rds of M4 fire, and saved my hands from a lot of pain and fatigue the last time without the loader my hands were soar for four days with arthritc symptoms. |
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I would bet that fatigue was causing you to limp wrist the pistol. I know a guy who bought two G26s almost 10 years ago. He keeps one to shoot all the time and carries the other. The one he shoots has never been cleaned, has over 12,000 rounds on it, and has never malfunctioned. |
Fixed it for you.
Pretty much par for the course with the Glock 23 I once owned. |
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"I would bet that fatigue was causing you to limp wrist the pistol." All the people with this opinion need to FUCK OFF. I'm not a stupid bastard, Neiter am I weak. In fact the other day I was shooting making sure I got good contact with the backstrap and yesterday I was favorign my permanently scared hand that still hasn't healed and shooting without good contact there. I found I shoot better that way since I don't have jolting pain of the Glock turning my exposed flesh into hamburger meat causing me to flinch. By the way it's rare I actually say anything of that sort so if you warrant it you earned it. The comment has allready been addressed. "I know a guy who bought two G26s almost 10 years ago. He keeps one to shoot all the time and carries the other. The one he shoots has never been cleaned, has over 12,000 rounds on it, and has never malfunctioned." Sure.. It malfed once in this 1000rds and that was a failure to grab a round out of the magazine. I am not oiling it or cleaning it. My brother never bothered and I'm shooting on the range- [100% reliability isn't neccessary, just pouring through rounds is] why should I bother? The 9mm is surplus ammo brass cased and comes in a neon orange 50rd box by the 1000rd case. My M4 is also not getting cleaned through 2000rds of Wolf. I don't need to waste time cleaning it- it's malfed a few times but I'm using mags that have +10% springs and cause problems charging the first few rounds on 30rd mags and mags that are crazy old and I bought for $5 a piece- some of which won't puch the last two rounds to the top. Two malfs were failures to pop primers, one was probably a bad primer, the other was a primer seated sideways in the pocket. I'm about 750rds into that 2000 |
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In my opinion it is easier to properly clean after each time you shoot your firearms then it is to clean once after multiple times firing them. Cleaning will only improve reliability. If you ever become concerned with reliability you might look into cleaning your weapons properly and regularly. If you need help learning how to break down your firearms for cleaning we can help you. Don't be shy to ask. 
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Gosh. Stupidity abounds here apparently. I am on a range- the weapon is not being used to save my life- I can live with a few malfs in a case of ammo and the minute it takes to clear even a dozen of them is probably 1/30th or less the time it would take to clean the firearm properly. I am on my way to train with a security contractor for a job in Iraq in two weeks, my free time is valuable, wether the Glock enjoys the experience or not is not valuable to me. |
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While glocks are a good gun, they are not for everyone. I personally love them, shoot great with them, and I have never ever had a jam, malfunction with one, and I've owned 3, and shot a few others. Now, I have not shot 1k rounds through it at one time, but I do know that after shooting 300 I was pretty tired, and packed it up for the day (was no longer enjoying myself...and since I shoot for fun, I figured ehh). That said, any mechanical piece of equipment can have a malfunction, some just have fewer. |
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GreenO, you are doing something wrong here. While I am not a particular fan of Glocks, 15 or 16 malfunctions in 1000 rounds is a lot for this pistol. I owned a Glock 23 for 6 years and ran 15,000 rounds through it (conservatively) and it malfunctioned twice. Both were light primer strikes. I own a G26 (my summer carry gun; see alternate thread) and it has never once malfunctioned in 10,000 rounds (again, conservative estimate). Glocks are ugly, they are not particularly ergonomic, they are made from plastic (which is an abomination of God) but they are always RELIABLE. You are running a 1-2% failure rate. That means that either you've got a defective firearm or (what is more likely) you are in some way mishandling the gun. I put thousands of rounds through a gun the exact same size, firing a hotter round with more recoil (the .40) and I never tore up my hand. Also, you are talking about dropping loaded mags and not knowing if the barrel is broken in, and a bunch of other stuff that makes you sound like a newbie. So here's some advice from a guy who has been shooting since he was knee-high to a sheep: GET SOME TRAINING. You can listen, or disregard all of the above, as you see fit. ETA: Limp-wristing a pistol is not a sign of you being weak, or unmanly. It has to do with improper grip. I've got a buddy who is 6'3" and 245, played college football, and he was limpwristing the first time I took him shooting. |
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"GET SOME TRAINING." And you think I'm on the range for the fresh air? Dropping a single half loaded magazine in 1000rds is not my idea of complete incompetence- the gun didn't fire and I'm having problems with the slide not locking occaisionally (because the slide lock is extended not stock {don't have time to or feel the need to buy another and replace it} and I have large hands) so I assumed with the slide closed and the striker fired the gun was EMPTY. My 1911's don't cycle without stripping rounds from the magazine and they are what I am used to. Neither do I have slide lock issues with them- unfortunately you train for what you will use, not what you would like to use As far as your Newbie suggestions- my experience with Glock is sub-par- I don't like Glocks- I think the G19 is the best model and I still don't like it- so I stay away from it unless as in this case I need to use it. I do have six years in the Infantry, a year in Iraq, have been shooting for over 13 years, was and currently am slotted in my platoons designated marksman slot. Nearly every dollar I've made or sold in the last 10 years has been made or spent with or on weapons. Weapons are my career. I build, work on and shoot a lot of them- though I don't have extensive experience with them all. The pistol is not factory stock. My guess is the new factory std G19 barrel needed a lot of break in before it was running right. The hardness of the barrels is in the 67RC range, and I have done some machining of melonite treated steel and realize it takes a long time to remove material- this would support the 1000rds possibly being neccessary to properly break it in. It's a G19C with a std non-ported barrel. I did this because the contractor I'm trying to get a job with is not issueing compensated G19's for use or qualification. I think I'll forget future posting of results. I don't feel like wasting any more of my time in this forum. |