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Posted: 1/25/2006 1:47:25 PM EDT

There are a million 9mm vs. ... threads and more to come, I was just wondering why police departments and gov agencies and such would switch to a bigger caliber if it wasn't nesscisary?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:51:39 PM EDT
i'm not sure, but i bet this had something to do with it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Miami_shootout,_1986

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:51:59 PM EDT
I can only speak for MY agency, but we're allowed to carry our choice, as long as it's .38 caliber or larger. Most, if not all, of us carry 9mm, .40, or .45. I carried a Sig 9mm for 9 years and now have a Glock 22 (.40cal). It's a matter of preference. Some people just feel more comfortable with a larger round. Others (like me) can't seem to control a .45 but wanted more than a 9mm. I don't know that you can ever deem a certain round "unnecessary." There might be a time when something larger than a 9mm is needed.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 2:36:20 PM EDT
It usually comes down to the lowest common denominator. The great majority of officers will never have to use their guns to shoot anyone, but all of them have to qualify with it. Smaller calibers like 9mm are effective enough for the occasional shooting, and easier to get your officers up to speed on.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 2:37:04 PM EDT
from what I understand its not about the bullet size but the weight, 115gn round does not carry the same momentome as a 230gn bullet, in order to get the 9mm round up to 180gn they had to increase the diamiture to 10mm (40 cal) When hitting bone such as rib caige bullet weight is vital, but I would feel fine with 9mm because when shooting center mass lung hit are probible
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 2:49:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 2:51:53 PM EDT by AKsRule]
One word , MARKETING

The .40 S&W was Designed to be sold to Law Enforcement.

Smith and Wesson and Winchester put their Financial Muscle behind it.
Then GLOCK put it in an IdiotProof Pistol , which they commenced to almost Give away
to LE Agencies.

Now it has a major market share of LEO sales.
An offshoot is that the .45 is also in vogue , because it is percieved as even more Deadly
than the .40

No Major Military force in the world uses the .40 , nor do they issue Glocks.

Don't get me wrong , I like the .40 and own one ( tis a SIG though)
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:26:15 PM EDT
Who cares what they do? Shoot what your comfortable with.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:11:29 AM EDT
.........40 cal......."politically correct" round....................
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:41:11 AM EDT
Politics and paranoia
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 1:55:44 PM EDT
The austrian army issues GLOCKS. As do many US SF groups. Not a fan of the 9mm BUT bullet construction has come a long way and I would carry one if I found something I liked. Terminal ballistic in ALL handguns is weak and always will be.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:33:30 PM EDT
neverenough is quite correct.

All handguns are defensive weapons and should only be used if a rifle or shotgun is unavailable. Of course, in Law Enforcement, it isn't practical to get a longarm on every car stop or call.

Personally, I'm comfortable with a 9mm. If you look at the stats, it gets the job done. Especially if you are using high-quality JHPs.

I think the decision to switch to a bigger round is based partly on marketing and partly on the fact that a Sig P226 in .40 has more firepower then a Sig P226 in 9mm (insert favorite brand of pistol in place of Sig if you like) and only holds 2 rounds less. Most people these days seem willing to make that tradeoff.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:47:49 PM EDT

Correct me if Jeff Cooper did not say this: (paraphrased)

"No one ever wanted a smaller caliber when they were in a gunfight."

I am also curious why so few (worldwide, relatively speaking) issue .40cal. Is it because of chamber pressure? Sharpness of recoil? I don't know.

I conceal carry .45ACP because its a proven round, very little debate about stopping power, I am a big believer in momentum (relies more on mass vs Kinetic energy which relies on the square of the speed - and many things can quickly rub off the speed) and I can control it just fine (5'7", 160lbs).



also +1 to:


Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i'm not sure, but i bet this had something to do with it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Miami_shootout,_1986


Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:22:46 AM EDT
There is also the first rule in a gun fight......1.) Have a gun.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:35:56 AM EDT
i bet this is a big part of it, also:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/ammodata.htm

---------

Ballistically speaking, according to the FBI data at Firearms Tactical, the 40S&W ballistics look great.

So do the newer generation 9mm defense rounds in 124 and 147 grain.

This is what helped me to make my decision on caliber effectiveness.
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