5.7x28 Love or Hate? (Page 2 of 3)
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Originally Posted By Gunnie357: It’s not got 5.56 performance and isn’t intended to. Yeah, I don't mind the debate about 5.7x28mm performance against actual rifle calibers and more traditional pistol calibers. As I look at something like the 5.7mm, I don’t necessarily view it as an offensive weapon competing with a rifle. It gives a compact defensive firearm with high capacity and accurate (platform-dependent). If compact enough to have nearby, it would have the capability to suppress and pin down a threat at much longer distances than a handgun or do the same to provide you the ability to break contact and vacate the area. While I want to stop a threat that is directly engaging me, I can accept less terminal performance at longer distances if the 5.7mm platform is accurate enough to keep the threat pinned down or change the trajectory of their “planned” activities. I’m understand the compromises and as long as the platform is reliable and accurate, it fills that niche requirement quite well. ROCK6 |
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Originally Posted By ROCK6: Yeah, I don't mind the debate about 5.7x28mm performance against actual rifle calibers and more traditional pistol calibers. As I look at something like the 5.7mm, I don’t necessarily view it as an offensive weapon competing with a rifle. It gives a compact defensive firearm with high capacity and accurate (platform-dependent). If compact enough to have nearby, it would have the capability to suppress and pin down a threat at much longer distances than a handgun or do the same to provide you the ability to break contact and vacate the area. While I want to stop a threat that is directly engaging me, I can accept less terminal performance at longer distances if the 5.7mm platform is accurate enough to keep the threat pinned down or change the trajectory of their “planned” activities. I’m understand the compromises and as long as the platform is reliable and accurate, it fills that niche requirement quite well. ROCK6 Originally Posted By ROCK6: Originally Posted By Gunnie357: It’s not got 5.56 performance and isn’t intended to. Yeah, I don't mind the debate about 5.7x28mm performance against actual rifle calibers and more traditional pistol calibers. As I look at something like the 5.7mm, I don’t necessarily view it as an offensive weapon competing with a rifle. It gives a compact defensive firearm with high capacity and accurate (platform-dependent). If compact enough to have nearby, it would have the capability to suppress and pin down a threat at much longer distances than a handgun or do the same to provide you the ability to break contact and vacate the area. While I want to stop a threat that is directly engaging me, I can accept less terminal performance at longer distances if the 5.7mm platform is accurate enough to keep the threat pinned down or change the trajectory of their “planned” activities. I’m understand the compromises and as long as the platform is reliable and accurate, it fills that niche requirement quite well. ROCK6 My thoughts exactly ran mine at a PCC match and was quite happy with performance even at the extended ranges. If I can put holes in things even if “less effective” ballistically there’s still additional holes the bad guys got that aren’t supposed to be. |
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Originally Posted By Gunnie357: My thoughts exactly ran mine at a PCC match and was quite happy with performance even at the extended ranges. If I can put holes in things even if “less effective” ballistically there’s still additional holes the bad guys got that aren’t supposed to be. Originally Posted By Gunnie357: Originally Posted By ROCK6: Originally Posted By Gunnie357: It’s not got 5.56 performance and isn’t intended to. Yeah, I don't mind the debate about 5.7x28mm performance against actual rifle calibers and more traditional pistol calibers. As I look at something like the 5.7mm, I don’t necessarily view it as an offensive weapon competing with a rifle. It gives a compact defensive firearm with high capacity and accurate (platform-dependent). If compact enough to have nearby, it would have the capability to suppress and pin down a threat at much longer distances than a handgun or do the same to provide you the ability to break contact and vacate the area. While I want to stop a threat that is directly engaging me, I can accept less terminal performance at longer distances if the 5.7mm platform is accurate enough to keep the threat pinned down or change the trajectory of their “planned” activities. I’m understand the compromises and as long as the platform is reliable and accurate, it fills that niche requirement quite well. ROCK6 My thoughts exactly ran mine at a PCC match and was quite happy with performance even at the extended ranges. If I can put holes in things even if “less effective” ballistically there’s still additional holes the bad guys got that aren’t supposed to be. Comparing 5.7 to 5.56 is like the debates comparing 300 BLK to 5.56— neither cartridge was ever intended to replace the 5.56, but rather both were intended to replace 9mm SMGs through issuing PDWs/special purpose firearms in the new calibers. My understanding is that the 5.7 particularly was intended to replace 9mm SMGs and pistols for support personnel who may find themselves in combat and needed a good defensive weapon, but were not intended to be on the frontlines. |
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FYI, A “cut & paste” from Elite Ammunition’s web site….. At this time EA does not support, promote, or warranty the use of EA ammunition on the Keltec P50. The Keltec P50 uses a straight blow black recoil system, not a delayed blowback system. This runs the risk of case separation with EA Ammunition. This separation runs the risk of a section of the case neck being left behind during case extraction creating an over-pressure event when the next round is chambered and fired. And as too “Armor Piercing”, go to YouTube and search for Buffman 5.7, his ballistics tests are outstanding, and you will find 5.7 rounds that will penetrate BOTH sides of a Level IIIA vest. One other thing, using my FN 5.7 MK II, My son was ringing a 12” x 12” steel plate at 110 yards easily! |
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Originally Posted By Gunnie357: 100% kind of like the M1 Carbine of 1990 Johnson was ahead of him his time with the recommendation of the 5.7x33mm “Spitfire” cartridge in the M1 Carbine, which never really caught on. Pushing 3000fps for a 40gr. bullet would have been a nice evolution for the M1 Carbine as a PDW moving into the latter half of the century. I was surprised how close it is to the FN 5.7x28mm cartridge.  Of course, we are getting a little over our skies here, as we start to stretch handgun to "long barreled pistol" to PDW/PCC, but it's an interesting cartridge concept regardless. ROCK6 |
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Originally Posted By ROCK6: Johnson was ahead of him his time with the recommendation of the 5.7x33mm “Spitfire” cartridge in the M1 Carbine, which never really caught on. Pushing 3000fps for a 40gr. bullet would have been a nice evolution for the M1 Carbine as a PDW moving into the latter half of the century. I was surprised how close it is to the FN 5.7x28mm cartridge. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2353/PDW_Cartridges-3816894.jpg Of course, we are getting a little over our skies here, as we start to stretch handgun to "long barreled pistol" to PDW/PCC, but it's an interesting cartridge concept regardless. ROCK6 Just enough taper to not need lubricated cases also |
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS: FYI, A "cut & paste" from Elite Ammunition's web site .. At this time EA does not support, promote, or warranty the use of EA ammunition on the Keltec P50. The Keltec P50 uses a straight blow black recoil system, not a delayed blowback system. This runs the risk of case separation with EA Ammunition. This separation runs the risk of a section of the case neck being left behind during case extraction creating an over-pressure event when the next round is chambered and fired. And as too "Armor Piercing", go to YouTube and search for Buffman 5.7, his ballistics tests are outstanding, and you will find 5.7 rounds that will penetrate BOTH sides of a Level IIIA vest. One other thing, using my FN 5.7 MK II, My son was ringing a 12" x 12" steel plate at 110 yards easily! |
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Originally Posted By pokey074: I gotta try some different ammo. Shooting FN 40gr blue tip I had several failures to eject. Now, it could be because the LC Charger has a heavy bolt and recoil spring due to being blowback, but I'd like to try new ammo anyway. It averaged 2,046FPS out of the LC Charger's 10.3" barrel. All the 40gr ammo besides AAC and Hornady are loaded by Fiocchi. If you want to try more powerful ammo, try the Hornady 40gr Black Vmax. |
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Originally Posted By pokey074: How is the Speer Gold Dot round?  5.7x28mm, 40gr JHP, Speer Gold Dot Revised |
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Kel-Tec kind of missed the mark on their top cover. The sides should have had MLOK slots vice holes as that would at least have given some realistic attachment points for lights or lasers. The charging handle rails seem flimy to me. Maybe I'm just more used to the AR platform with a stiff charging handle but the Kel-Tec just seems wierd in that it will flex a little when charging. I'm curious as to what pressures it is rated for. I'll make an assumption that if the KP50 and MP50 have the same design, that the MP50 would be designed to handle SMG/hotter ammo...yes, a big assumpton. Break down is very simple and the barrel is (oddly) fixed. ROCK6 |
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Originally Posted By Gunnie357: One thing I keep hunting for is a chest rig or other decent method to carry spare mags for the P90 Yeah, that's something I'm trying to figure out as well... ROCK6 |
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Just found this poking about ref the topic https://thevestguy.com/collections/p90-collection https://www.military1st.com/fy-ph-m022-od-flyye-double-p90-ump-magazine-pouch-molle-olive-drab.html |
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I have a PS90 I don't shoot much, I have a Rock 5.7 I just shot for the first time yesterday. The caliber itself seems decent enough, low recoil. I hope the trigger on my Rock improves. And I wish my PS90 was more accurate. |
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@colklink What kind of accuracy are you getting? Rested 50/100 yards While I know it's not a target/bench gun, can it hold the 10 ring at 100? SR-1 100-Yard Ring Dimensions X-Ring: 1.35 inches 10-Ring: 3.35 inches 9-Ring: 6.35 inches 8-Ring: 9.35 inches |
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Originally Posted By mark5pt56: @colklink What kind of accuracy are you getting? Rested 50/100 yards While I know it's not a target/bench gun, can it hold the 10 ring at 100? SR-1 100-Yard Ring Dimensions X-Ring: 1.35 inches 10-Ring: 3.35 inches 9-Ring: 6.35 inches 8-Ring: 9.35 inches Mine, in my hands, with the FN ammo I tried zeroing the optic with? No. I was getting like 4" groups rested at about 25 yards. My nephew shot a few hundred rounds through it after, just mag dumping  He loved it, because he had used a P90 in video games. Maybe I was having a bad day, I need to take it to the range and try again. |
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Originally Posted By colklink: Mine, in my hands, with the FN ammo I tried zeroing the optic with? No. I was getting like 4" groups rested at about 25 yards. My nephew shot a few hundred rounds through it after, just mag dumping He loved it, because he had used a P90 in video games. Maybe I was having a bad day, I need to take it to the range and try again. How is the trigger on the PS90 by the way? I've always been curious about it, but I have not yet been willing to spend the $$ for a 5.7 when the Tavor or Hellion or an Aug are available for around the same money. |
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Originally Posted By colklink: Mine, in my hands, with the FN ammo I tried zeroing the optic with? No. I was getting like 4" groups rested at about 25 yards. My nephew shot a few hundred rounds through it after, just mag dumping He loved it, because he had used a P90 in video games. Maybe I was having a bad day, I need to take it to the range and try again. Originally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By mark5pt56: @colklink What kind of accuracy are you getting? Rested 50/100 yards While I know it's not a target/bench gun, can it hold the 10 ring at 100? SR-1 100-Yard Ring Dimensions X-Ring: 1.35 inches 10-Ring: 3.35 inches 9-Ring: 6.35 inches 8-Ring: 9.35 inches Mine, in my hands, with the FN ammo I tried zeroing the optic with? No. I was getting like 4" groups rested at about 25 yards. My nephew shot a few hundred rounds through it after, just mag dumping He loved it, because he had used a P90 in video games. Maybe I was having a bad day, I need to take it to the range and try again. Wow, pretty bad, guessing something isn't quite right there. Have you checked the sight, etc.? Would be interested to hear others experiences? |
Henry shoots a P90 to 500. I imagine the 16" barrel should be fine out to 100.. FN P90 to 500yds: Practical Accuracy (Stargate SG1 main weapon) PS90 |
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Originally Posted By Pickaroon: I want a 5.7 bolt action for groundhogs. A CZ 527, or whatever they call that model now, would be great in 5.7x28. That does beg the question though, why not just get the same rifle in 5.56/.223 and save money on ammo and have a more performant cartridge? |
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Originally Posted By Pickaroon: I want a 5.7 bolt action for groundhogs. Dark Mountain Arms Stowaway https://blkmtnarms.com/product/stowaway/ |
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: How is the trigger on the PS90 by the way? I've always been curious about it, but I have not yet been willing to spend the $$ for a 5.7 when the Tavor or Hellion or an Aug are available for around the same money. Mines not horrible. Its not a crisp AR trigger, but its better than a stock Glock. |
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Originally Posted By mark5pt56: Wow, pretty bad, guessing something isn't quite right there. Have you checked the sight, etc.? Would be interested to hear others experiences? Mine has an FN branded Trijicon RMR RDS on it. Not a precise sight by any means. |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: Henry shoots a P90 to 500. I imagine the 16" barrel should be fine out to 100..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0WrHbTzJ2oI thought the barrel isn't really 16", but that it was a shroud attached to the barrel? |
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Originally Posted By colklink: I thought the barrel isn't really 16", but that it was a shroud attached to the barrel? I don’t remember the EXACT length but it’s like 15.9” And yes the shroud brings it to over 16”. |
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Originally Posted By Novelty: Originally Posted By Pickaroon: I want a 5.7 bolt action for groundhogs. Dark Mountain Arms Stowaway https://blkmtnarms.com/product/stowaway/ |
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Originally Posted By mark5pt56: Wow, pretty bad, guessing something isn't quite right there. Have you checked the sight, etc.? Would be interested to hear others experiences? Originally Posted By mark5pt56: Originally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By mark5pt56: @colklink What kind of accuracy are you getting? Rested 50/100 yards While I know it's not a target/bench gun, can it hold the 10 ring at 100? SR-1 100-Yard Ring Dimensions X-Ring: 1.35 inches 10-Ring: 3.35 inches 9-Ring: 6.35 inches 8-Ring: 9.35 inches Mine, in my hands, with the FN ammo I tried zeroing the optic with? No. I was getting like 4" groups rested at about 25 yards. My nephew shot a few hundred rounds through it after, just mag dumping He loved it, because he had used a P90 in video games. Maybe I was having a bad day, I need to take it to the range and try again. Wow, pretty bad, guessing something isn't quite right there. Have you checked the sight, etc.? Would be interested to hear others experiences? I was able to keep at least 10 rounds in one inch at 50 yards with nothing more than a RDS. This was with FN ammo but it was about 8 years ago. |
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Originally Posted By colklink: Mines not horrible. Its not a crisp AR trigger, but its better than a stock Glock. Originally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By NN300BLK: How is the trigger on the PS90 by the way? I've always been curious about it, but I have not yet been willing to spend the $$ for a 5.7 when the Tavor or Hellion or an Aug are available for around the same money. Mines not horrible. Its not a crisp AR trigger, but its better than a stock Glock. Okay, thanks! It sounds like it’s decent for a bullpup. |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: Pistols Rock/FSN/TIsas PX 57 > Ruger 57 > S&W M&P > PR57 PDW P90 / RBD MK57 > Ruger LC Charger > Diamondback DBX, Keltec P50/KT50, AR57 - X57 untested/not in production yet. PCC / 16" barrel PS90 > Ruger LC, Keltec Sub 2000 (heavy bolt weight recommended), Possibly the S&W FPC, Keltec R50. People shit on PSA, but they built a really solid pistol with the Rock. The P90 just simply works, but if you don't like the mags, CMMG's RDB MK57 runs, but it isn't as compact as it's AR based. What’s wrong with the S&W MP 5.7? I was just playing with one and it felt very high quality and had a nice trigger. From my understanding the rotating barrel allows a direct thread can. |
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Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: What’s wrong with the S&W MP 5.7? I was just playing with one and it felt very high quality and had a nice trigger. From my understanding the rotating barrel allows a direct thread can. Several shooters do not like how it “feels” in your hand and Buffman has correctly stated it has a slightly lower velocity than similar pistols with the same barrel length. Personally I’m a FAN!!! The only negative comment I can make is DO NOT LOSE YOUR MAGAZINE LOADING TOOL! Since I replaced my trigger with an aftermarket adjustable trigger, I’d rate the trigger as OUTSTANDING! |
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| Took the SBR LC Charger to the range again today. After having kept the bolt locked open for a week or so I had zero malfunctions with 25 rounds of Hornady Black and 50 rounds of FN blue tip. Did run into kind of a weird deal where the first chambered round fired felt almost weak. This happened several times with different mags. |
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS: Several shooters do not like how it “feels” in your hand and Buffman has correctly stated it has a slightly lower velocity than similar pistols with the same barrel length. Personally I’m a FAN!!! The only negative comment I can make is DO NOT LOSE YOUR MAGAZINE LOADING TOOL! Since I replaced my trigger with an aftermarket adjustable trigger, I’d rate the trigger as OUTSTANDING! How much velocity loss? Like 25fps? |
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Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: How much velocity loss? Like 25fps? I don’t recall, it’s not a lot. |
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Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: How much velocity loss? Like 25fps? |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: it's 2-6% depending on the load. Which 30-60 fps lost for the same given barrel length. I've found a times, the rotating barrel assembly locks up and requires a very hard pull to rack the slide. The barrel sleeve may not be concentric to the bore so you'll need to check suppressor alignment and may need to use a barrel shoulder shim because of how long the threads are. Mag release tiny, grip is basically a 2x4 in size and feel. mags are hard to load, require a hard slap to seat, and may not fit rounds close to or over max over length. That’s good info. I actually liked how it felt in the hand. The Rock felt very cheap, I wasn’t a fan just handling it. I didn’t like the FN because it felt like a giant block with weird ergos. I have not handled the Ruger or Tisas yet. I’m sure someone has the Ruger locally. Is the best round still the dragon fang? Do any of the major factory brands (Hornady) actually properly load to reach full velocity potential? Appreciate the input. |
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Originally Posted By VeritatisUnus: That’s good info. I actually liked how it felt in the hand. The Rock felt very cheap, I wasn’t a fan just handling it. I didn’t like the FN because it felt like a giant block with weird ergos. I have not handled the Ruger or Tisas yet. I’m sure someone has the Ruger locally. Is the best round still the dragon fang? Do any of the major factory brands (Hornady) actually properly load to reach full velocity potential? Appreciate the input. I haven't shot any of them, but the Ruger definitely seems like it's more of a "full-size" 5.7 height-wise. |
I got a suppressor for my .22s, and it's rated for 5.7, and I've been thinking of getting one. I want a pistol, just so I can put it in a chassis and make a PDW type thing with it. Michigan forbids carrying 'loaded' rifles, but with a carry permit, I can carry anything under 26" since it's technically a pistol.  Are they even useful suppressed or is the subsonic ammo giving up the velocity benefit of the round? |
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