I have finally given up on Glocks! (Page 3 of 5)
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Originally Posted By Bravo_Six: I hear this often, but it's not what I see at the range. It seems like when I notice someone struggling with multiple stoppages, 8 times out of 10 it's a "Custom" Glock they modified themselves. I'm not saying that Glocks are unreliable, but I don't think that they are more reliable than any other mainstream pistol. FIFY |
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Originally Posted By King_Mud: FIFY Originally Posted By King_Mud: Originally Posted By Bravo_Six: I hear this often, but it's not what I see at the range. It seems like when I notice someone struggling with multiple stoppages, 8 times out of 10 it's a "Custom" Glock they modified themselves. I'm not saying that Glocks are unreliable, but I don't think that they are more reliable than any other mainstream pistol. FIFY Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Timbo: All roads lead back to the G19. Even for the weird CZ people.  I'd take a CZ P10c over a G19. Better ergos, better price.  Glock makes a good gun, but so does CZ, HS Produkt, HK, etc. Glock hardly has the monopoly on reliable polymer pistols and even the Gen 6 offers oftentimes inferior ergonomics for a lot of people-- which is subjective and I'm not saying otherwise. If you like Glocks, cool, rock that G19. But I won't be. |
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I own one Glock. A Gen 4 17. It's the only Glock I will ever own. I bought it for only one reason. I have a crapload of Glock magazines for my three PCC's that use them. Might as well have a matching pistol. Also, it was a $280 police trade in.  I fired 300 rds for break in. I then stuck in in the safe and went back to the M&P. It's just all around a better gun. Yes, It's the grip issue for me. The Glock is reliable. So is the M&P, 3rd gen Smiths, Berettas and Hi Powers I own. Never had a failure with any of them. I don't own Springfields or CZ's either. I HAVE had failures to the point of not trusting their pistols. |
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Originally Posted By John-in-austin: I don't own Springfields or CZ's either. I HAVE had failures to the point of not trusting their pistols. Can you elaborate? I've never had a failure with any of my Springfield's and I have thousands of rounds through them. I've owned eight Springfield's including six HS Produkts over the years. |
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: Can you elaborate? I've never had a failure with any of my Springfield's and I have thousands of rounds through them. I've owned eight Springfield's including six HS Produkts over the years. Failures to extract, usually traced to a chipped extractor. Getting replacements was a pain in the neck. Three incidents. (40 caliber) |
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Originally Posted By John-in-austin: Failures to extract, usually traced to a chipped extractor. Getting replacements was a pain in the neck. Three incidents. (40 caliber) On an XD? Admittedly, I've only owned the 9mm XD's. I'm not surprised it was hard to get a replacement considering it is fairly hard to remove and requires a special tool. |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Nope. I've been around long enough to remember the Canik is just a $200 Turkish pistol that over the years has had a $400 "haha Americans are stupid" tax accumulate on it. Arex committed brand suicide the same way, and Canik is following the same error of thinking high sales are because of the design and not the cheap price tag. The CZ P10 is underwhelming to me. I won't say it's a bad pistol, but there's nothing there that appeals to me over anything else. Modern caniks have actually evolved (a little) since then. Just like the $199 hs2000 blossomed into the entire grip zone world for Springfield Armory That being said, the only canik I considered was the mete sft at $299. I find it amazing that people are paying close to $1,000 for some of them. The local gun shop had one of the FDE double action single action versions for $120 and I passed. The double action pull sucked in the single action pull was worse. No feedback at all, just felt like I was dragging my trigger finger through a fat woman's pussy. |
Froot Loops are all the same flavor. They just taste like froot. Whatever the heck that is.
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I do understand the love/hate relationship with Glocks though. I think the one pistol that I have bought and then rebought so many times would be the Glock 19X. I think in total I have sold and then rebought it 5 times. Actually bought a 19x V model just recently alongside my 19x. I plan to keep both forever now since Virginia has fallen. I was hunting for spare 19x 19 rounder mags and couldn't find any so I figure you know the best way to get 2 extra mags is to simply buy another 19x and that's why I got the V model. I think the biggest thing about the glock though is that after using other pistols for a while, I remember all the good things about the glock except for how ugly it looked. At least with a 1911 you can show it off or with a different polymer gun, it looks better overall. The glock looks so ugly though but the thing works, and never failed. I have had other guns fail on me in weird ways but not the glock. The thing has been working like a charm. I think that's why I get bored of it because it works. I somehow find it doubtful you're going to give up on the glock after 20 years. I've been shooting the glock 19 for years from gen 3 until the 19x came out and thought it was the best gun that ever existed. I think I shot glocks for about 14 years now myself and yeah each time I sold it, I regretted it until I came across some other pistol that I thought would replace it but then I realized what I missed about it. |
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Originally Posted By Timbo: All roads lead back to the G19. Even for the weird CZ people. During the AWB, I started concealed carry with a Colt CCO, when the AWB ended I went to CZ-75 PCR for additional capacity, then I tried a G19.5 but just didn't jell with it. Now I'm pretty enamored with the HK USP Compact and P30SK, both with tuned LEM triggers. I love the reliability, durability and it just feels good. Maybe I'll change my mind if I really like a Gen 6 or some aftermarket frame, but I doubt very much I'm ever going back to Glock for an EDC.    
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: I'd take a CZ P10c over a G19. Better ergos, better price. Glock makes a good gun, but so does CZ, HS Produkt, HK, etc. Glock hardly has the monopoly on reliable polymer pistols and even the Gen 6 offers oftentimes inferior ergonomics for a lot of people-- which is subjective and I'm not saying otherwise. If you like Glocks, cool, rock that G19. But I won't be. My only problem with the gun for concealed carry is the long grip frame. It's G45 sized and that's just too big for EDC. The one place Glock Perfection is truth in advertising is the G19's size. It has a great barrel length. It's the biggest gun I can reasonably carry without major comfort and printing issues. It's also the about the smallest grip size for all my fingers to get maximum purchase on the gun. I don't want a Glock, but every time I consider a new Compact carry gun, I compare it to the G19 form factor in Handgun Hero. If it's larger than a G19, then it's a no go.  |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: I love my P10C. The ergonomics are great. I tuned the trigger and it's the chef's kiss for a striker gun. It's accurate and reliable. It's a superb HD/bedside gun. My only problem with the gun for concealed carry is the long grip frame. It's G45 sized and that's just too big for EDC. The one place Glock Perfection is truth in advertising is the G19's size. It has a great barrel length. It's the biggest gun I can reasonably carry without major comfort and printing issues. It's also the about the smallest grip size for all my fingers to get maximum purchase on the gun. I don't want a Glock, but every time I consider a new Compact carry gun, I compare it to the G19 form factor in Handgun Hero. If it's larger than a G19, then it's a no go. https://i.imgur.com/kGGCdH9.jpeg Yeah, many manufacturers get creative with their "compacts" in terms of sizing. I think the Echelon 4.0c is slightly larger than a G19 (5.125" high), but I have no problem with carrying it, though with a Echelon FC sized gun I need a jacket. |
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Originally Posted By Sabre223:Google says, "Glock has manufactured over 20,000,000 pistols in total across all models, and the Glock 19 is widely recognized as the most popular and widely produced handgun in their entire lineup." I think Glock is ok with a few people being done with them. Sometimes people are like lemmings and take the easy route of just doing what everyone else is doing.  |
| Shot/carried *most major platforms across 2 LE careers. Never really shot the Glocks well. My carry pistols are now a Canik MC9 and an SA Echelon 4.5, stock triggers. My duty Glocks were 22/27/19. Only gun I ever owned that had a worse OEM trigger than a Glock was a KelTec P11. |
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Originally Posted By Czechers: Shot/carried *most major platforms across 2 LE careers. Never really shot the Glocks well. My carry pistols are now a Canik MC9 and an SA Echelon 4.5, stock triggers. My duty Glocks were 22/27/19. Only gun I ever owned that had a worse OEM trigger than a Glock was a KelTec P11. I really like the Echelon! It's good enough out of the box to never need modification, but modular enough to make it easy. This is one area where Glock could take notes. |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: The Toyota Camry and Honda Accord were once the most popular cars in the country. Millions of people once owned minivans. Sometimes people are like lemmings and take the easy route of just doing what everyone else is doing. I hear ya. But eventually almost every vehicle makes it to the graveyard. How many lightbulbs have been manufactured? Glock is still the # 1 manufacturer of handguns... in the world. Those guns haven't gone to the graveyard. Just saying. All of this is just personal preference. Is Glock the best of the best, nope. I'd just want the one that would make it to the end. |
| We are now 3 gens past perfection, and they can't even offer an optics cut that competes with the Echelon or the RXM. Their new mag for the 43x is ridiculous the way it sticks out. Just bad decisions all around. I'll keep what I have, but I'm also looking elsewhere moving forward, unless they get back on track. |
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Originally Posted By SwannyJ: We are now 3 gens past perfection, and they can't even offer an optics cut that competes with the Echelon or the RXM. Their new mag for the 43x is ridiculous the way it sticks out. Just bad decisions all around. I'll keep what I have, but I'm also looking elsewhere moving forward, unless they get back on track. Don't forget the 22lr offering that sucks Donkey balls! |
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Your loss. They're objectively the best pistol on the market in terms of the whole balanced package. Best mags, reliability, aftermarket e.g. holster support, durability, simplicity (you can take the whole thing down with a single punch), and size and weight. Nothing really does anything better without huge tradeoffs in at least one (usually multiple) other areas. All the time people put into riding the pistol carousel to make up for crappy fundamentals would be better spent on training, competing, and ammunition. |
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Originally Posted By BrandonP: Your loss. They're objectively the best pistol on the market in terms of the whole balanced package. Best mags, reliability, aftermarket e.g. holster support, durability, simplicity (you can take the whole thing down with a single punch), and size and weight. Nothing really does anything better without huge tradeoffs in at least one (usually multiple) other areas. All the time people put into riding the pistol carousel to make up for crappy fundamentals would be better spent on training, competing, and ammunition.  I'm not sure how an Echelon or P10 or M&P or P320 make up for "crappy fundamentals" versus a Glock. A lot of those pistols have a shorter takeup/reset, which allow for quicker shots, but it doesn't make up for bad technique. They also all point more naturally for most users; again, it makes the gun more comfortable and quicker to get on target, but doesn't make up for bad technique. Those pistols are also widely regarded as having very good grip shapes and some of them (Echelon, P320) offer multiple grip module sizes that make them work better for people with different sized hands; using something that is too small, too big, or wrong handed isn't really a flex or "fundamentals" issue-- if a car is too small and it causes my knees to hit the steering column or dash, I blame the car for being too small, not myself for having bad leg placement technique. Reliability/Durability: Glock is a NATO pistol, XD is a NATO pistol, Echelon is a NATO pistol, P10 is a NATO pistol, M&P has long time police use, P320 is a NATO and US military pistol (controversy aside). Okay, seems like the objective military and police testing aren't declaring any significant advantages for any of these pistols. Holster Support: I've never had an issue finding an XD or Echelon holster; there's a lot of M&P holsters; a lot of P320 holsters; and I'd be surprised if the P10 doesn't have adequate holster support. Size and Weight: They're all polymer 9mm pistols-- almost of all of these are within an inch and a few oz's of each other in any given model. Simplicity: Many of these are easier to field strip than a Glock. The Echelon and P320 even have interchangeable grip modules and there are aftermarket trigger kits for all of the listed above. Mags: Glock is far from the best— they win in cheap. Metal magazines are more expensive, but are functionally superior in terms of space vs capacity. I respectfully disagree that the Glock is by far and wide superior-- I think it is a fine choice, but it's not like it's the only choice. I do however agree that training is a better investment than trying half a dozen different brands if someone is truly not proficient with a handgun. |
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Originally Posted By BrandonP: Your loss. They're objectively the best pistol on the market in terms of the whole balanced package. Best mags, reliability, aftermarket e.g. holster support, durability, simplicity (you can take the whole thing down with a single punch), and size and weight. Nothing really does anything better without huge tradeoffs in at least one (usually multiple) other areas. All the time people put into riding the pistol carousel to make up for crappy fundamentals would be better spent on training, competing, and ammunition. Facts  I have rode that carousel a couple times each time back to Glock. The only gun to work more often was a P320, many seem to work 125% of the time.   I bought into the P320 & P365 guns for the grip module changeability, a feature that I never used, grip swapping just wasn't a feature I needed, turns out. However durability, drop safe, & peace of mind knowing my carry guns have it, is an important feature. |
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Enjoy your time getting some strange with pistols. I see the 'flavor of the month / year' pistol guys and laugh a bit. Most are looking for a mechanical fix to physical problems. Yes there are guns that are easier to shoot (Original hair trigger P320 - if you sucked with that, you really sucked) but from form, function, and support Glocks are hard to beat. You can build a Glock with no Glock branded parts. Very few people come close to matching the accuracy capability of a quality production firearm. Yes high volume / disciplined shooters can see it, but 90+% of people don't. 90% of people will shoot 50rds with a gun and then say "ah it's not for me". Mmmmkay. |
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Originally Posted By JamesAR: Enjoy your time getting some strange with pistols. I see the 'flavor of the month / year' pistol guys and laugh a bit. Most are looking for a mechanical fix to physical problems. Yes there are guns that are easier to shoot (Original hair trigger P320 - if you sucked with that, you really sucked) but from form, function, and support Glocks are hard to beat. You can build a Glock with no Glock branded parts. Very few people come close to matching the accuracy capability of a quality production firearm. Yes high volume / disciplined shooters can see it, but 90+% of people don't. 90% of people will shoot 50rds with a gun and then say "ah it's not for me". Mmmmkay. "Flavor of the month / year" pistols? You know that millions of P320's, P365's, XD's, and M&P's have been sold, right? These are popular brands from major manufacturers-- just because Glock has the most market share doesn't mean that everything else is the "flavor of the month". Like I said above... superior ergonomics design doesn't erase bad technique, but having worse ergonomics for many users also isn't an attribute. |
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The point isn't that Glock is the best at everything, but rather that they optimize the trade space best because the guns aren't really worse at anything while not making major concessions in critical areas. 320s shoot their owners, XDs have major design flaws (striker retained by a roll pin making it a pain to service, and it's possible to get the barrel in front of the locking block jamming the whole thing up), M&Ps are more complicated (need to remove sights to remove firing pin block) and heavier (a 2.0 compact is 6 oz heavier than a G19), the Echelon's mags are trash, on and on and on. If you like collecting guns, they're boring. If you prioritize shooting without spending a bunch of time cleaning the guns, fucking around trying to diagnose problems, finding holsters etc they're objectively the best pistol on the market for that. |
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Originally Posted By BrandonP: The point isn't that Glock is the best at everything, but rather that they optimize the trade space best because the guns aren't really worse at anything while not making major concessions in critical areas. 320s shoot their owners, XDs have major design flaws (striker retained by a roll pin making it a pain to service, and it's possible to get the barrel in front of the locking block jamming the whole thing up), M&Ps are more complicated (need to remove sights to remove firing pin block) and heavier (a 2.0 compact is 6 oz heavier than a G19), the Echelon's mags are trash, on and on and on. If you like collecting guns, they're boring. If you prioritize shooting without spending a bunch of time cleaning the guns, fucking around trying to diagnose problems, finding holsters etc they're objectively the best pistol on the market for that. On the XD... it really isn't a pain removing the roll pin, but how often does one remove an XD striker anyway? I have also never gotten the barrel in front of the locking block. And I have had no problems with Echelon's mags-- in fact that whole issue was that some of the early magazines had the extended baseplate improperly installed. I'm a fairly avid target shooter and I've never had a malfunction with either the XD or Echelon platform. Militaries issue the P320, XD, and Echelon; and the M&P has been used by multiple police departments. It's okay to like Glock, but that doesn't mean everything else has problems. 
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I had to have one because all the other shooters in my Church Shooting Classes thought I shot so good on account of the Platypus and the Staccato. I built a G19 with an undercut trigger guard, Radian Ramjet , Glock Performance Trigger, Johnny Glock Vex Shoe, 509T cut slide and metal sights. I shoot it as good as the others.
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“‘It ain’t dying I’m talking about, it’s living,’ Augustus McCrae
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Still my carry guns. Light and reliable. Attached File |
“You either know and understand history or you trust the government. You can’t do both”
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Old guy here, finally decided to put up with all the bull$hit to get a pistol license in NY. I have small hands, first gun was a Walther PDP f-series. Gun won’t go into battery at least twice on every 10 round mag with 115gr ammo. After a web search it’s apparently a common problem. Shoots 124gr ok. Called Walther, they told me it may need a 500 round break in. WTF? Bought it for defense, need it to go bang every time. I would never buy another Walther. Friend bought an M&P full size as his first gun, he is having problems. LEO friends let me try more Glock models than I could count, grip just isn’t a good fit for me and I don’t like the grip angle. I ended up assembling a G45 clone on a Timber Wolf frame with a used gen 3 Glock OEM complete slide. Love it, and it shoots everything I feed it. Tried a Grit Grips frame, didn’t like it either. That said, next pistol will be a 1911 or a CZ 75B, have shot both quite a bit now and like them a lot. But that Glock clone isn’t going anywhere, and I might put a few more together. |
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Originally Posted By eetprof: Old guy here, finally decided to put up with all the bull$hit to get a pistol license in NY. I have small hands, first gun was a Walther PDP f-series. Gun won’t go into battery at least twice on every 10 round mag with 115gr ammo. After a web search it’s apparently a common problem. Shoots 124gr ok. Called Walther, they told me it may need a 500 round break in. WTF? Bought it for defense, need it to go bang every time. I would never buy another Walther. While not ideal, the 500-round break in period didn't use to be uncommon. It's only been in the last few years where a manufacturer has told me that their pistols don't have a break in period. I am skeptical, however, that a failure to go into battery twice a magazine is a break in period issue. |
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: While not ideal, the 500-round break in period didn't use to be uncommon. It's only been in the last few years where a manufacturer has told me that their pistols don't have a break in period. I am skeptical, however, that a failure to go into battery twice a magazine is a break in period issue. Trust but verify. |
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Originally Posted By BrandonP: If you prioritize shooting without spending a bunch of time fucking around trying to diagnose problems, finding holsters etc they're objectively the best pistol on the market for that. Guess you have forgotten about the gen 3-4 transition. And do gen 5 guns fit in gen 3 holsters? |
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Originally Posted By 03RN: Guess you have forgotten about the gen 3-4 transition. And do gen 5 guns fit in gen 3 holsters? Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By BrandonP: If you prioritize shooting without spending a bunch of time fucking around trying to diagnose problems, finding holsters etc they're objectively the best pistol on the market for that. Guess you have forgotten about the gen 3-4 transition. And do gen 5 guns fit in gen 3 holsters? Perfected 6 times! |
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Originally Posted By SideCarGT: No. That would be foolishness. Dead nuts reliable. Parts available everywhere, both stock and tuner parts. Every gun has pros and cons, but it’s hard to beat Glock when your life is on the line. Doesn’t mean I don’t carry others and own others, but not selling the Glocks. FPNI |
z - Deplorable Neanderthal Garbage per liberal media.
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Originally Posted By 03RN: Guess you have forgotten about the gen 3-4 transition. And do gen 5 guns fit in gen 3 holsters? I skipped gen 4 so never noticed. In terms of holsters, mine do (though all my Gen 5s have dots, which limits holster selection anyway). What's the issue? |
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Originally Posted By BrandonP: Tbf that can happen with any gun you put ambi controls on. Originally Posted By BrandonP: Originally Posted By Joedirt199: If the holster is tight on the sides, the ambi slide stop can cause issues with fitting a 5 into a 3/4. Tbf that can happen with any gun you put ambi controls on. Not really if the holster was designed correctly for that specific model (Gen 5, XDM Elite) or for a gun that was designed from the ground up with ambi-controls (Echelon). The issue is taking some holsters designed for a non-ambi gun (Gen 3, XDM) and trying to use it with an ambi-gun (Gen 5, XDM Elite). |