Posted: 10/6/2005 3:15:05 PM EDT
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I'm in between the two right now and am in need of a .45 caliber pistol. I've never shot the HK in .45, so how does in shoot in comparison to a 1911? How does the recoil compare? Thanks. Digital |
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I was not pleased with my Springfield "Loaded" 1911. It was the first handgun that I bought on my 21st. I had a lot of jams, FTF, and FTE. The trigger was nice, and it did shoot well when it would work. I no longer have the 1911 because I sold it to pay for a AR. But I do own to HK USPs. One fullsize and a Tactical. I prefer the USP to a 1911. My fullsize USP shoots find...as good as my SIG 220. The USP Tactical shoots really good. A lot better than the full size. As for recoil, I don;t notice it that much with the USP. If for are looking for a .45 look into a USP or SIG 220. |
| 1911s are great, but I think the USP is a better out-of-the-box combat weapon. Recoil is mild, accuracy is better than I can shoot and I've had ZERO malfunctions, unlike the 1911s I've shot. I think every collection needs both, but if forced to choose, I'd take the USP without a second thought. |
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I vote 1911. I had a USP Tactical, and it just did not fit me good. A double-stack .45 is not for everyone, and I found the rest of the pistol large and "clunky" as well. The bore axis is also higher than a 1911, so while recoil may seem a bit softer, I got more muzzle flip. 1911's on the other hand, just feel "right". Best bet is to make sure to shoot both (or at least the USP - I assume you've shot a 1911 before to know the general feel of them). |
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I own a USPf .45 V9 and a 1911(Kimber). I am faster and more accurate with the 1911. Recoil is not an issue. Still plagued by malfunctions even after 2200 rounds. Unable to diagnose problem, but unwilling to give up the shootability of the 1911. I am slower with the USP due to the significantly increased muzzle flip and seemingly slow cycling action. Failed to return to battery once during the very first mag, but has been okay for 2800 rounds. Currently my favorite gun, but I have much more fun with my 1911. |
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In arfcom tradition, I have all four: USP fullsize & compact; 1911A1 & Micro. All serve a good purpose, all work great for what they were intended for. My most recent purchase was the USP .45 fullsize for IDPA/IPSC/3-Gun shooting & all round fun. It doesn't balance as well as a 1911, but hell, what does??? It will shoot anything I put in it & it wonderfully accurate right out of the box. The only real downside is lack of accessories & it looks like millions of other USP's. I have large hands so the grip size isn't a concern for me. The 1911 is endless in its options for changing parts. The balance is virtually perfect for any sized hand & most brands will shoot good & be reliable right out of the box, generally speaking. The downside is the somewhat limiting 8rd mag capacity for matches or fun shooting. A small concern is the barrel link on any 1911, this is usually the weak link for long term functioning. Whenever it decides to go south on you, it will most likely not be at the range but at a match or (heaven forbid) when you need it. Either way, both are top of the line for handguns. It's like picking between a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, you can't go wrong either way. My .o2 |
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Definitely 1911, most are 100% reliable from the box. If it's not SA will make it right. There are good and bad examples of any gun. My first P220 was a complete Jamomatic and couldnt get through a 50 round qual course without troubles, my new one is perfect. Use Wilson combat #47D mags and you'll have 9 rounds of .45 on tap. I've never owned a USP and after shooting a friends it's definitely not on my short list of guns to own. As far as the barrel link being a problem I aint buying it. My govt model is easily past the 150K mark and never had a link issue. ( bar sto barrel and link ) |
| None that I'm aware of, it's just that it may have been an individual gun or mfr rather than weakness of design. The only 1911 I have with bazillions of rounds through it has spent most of it's life with that barrel and it's been fantastically reliable and accurate with no parts failures. |
Definitely a hard choice. Depending on your experience, future in shooting and dedication to the sport, it could guide you either way. I too own both 1911s (wilson government and ed brown commander) and a HK USP-tac. If I had to leave tomorrow with just one pistol, it would be the Tactical. Accuracy, dependability, caliber, capacity, safety, functionality, ergonomics, easy and very quick to clean, it is hard to beat the USP series. |
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Well, I've had both. Springy first, sold it got a glock, sold it got another springy, (An MC operator this time) Traded/sold it for the HK USP full size 45 I have now. Out of them all I have been the happiest with the HK. 12 round mags. Recoil isn't that bad. Close to the G21 I have. My suggestion would be to find a way to shoot both the same day if you can. See which fits YOU the best. Which you shoot better with and feel more comfortable with. |
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I myself prefer the 1911. However, if I were going to battle and had my choice of either out of the box, the USP would be my selection. However, I'd throw a USP for a quality custom 1911. Go shoot them before you buy. I prefer the feel of the 1911 over the USP as it feels like more of a natural pointer. The USP is some what bulky (although not enough to sway me), but I love the feel of the 1911. |
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You got some gret advice from BobCole. I'll pile on with my experiences with both. I have owned the USP for over a year and several 1911s since 1989. The USP is a great pistol in a lot of ways. It is accurate and reliable and the recoil is very mild. The sights seem to draw my attention better than any I've had on a 1911 (I've got Mepros). The 12 round mags are nice, but expensive. You can get the Pro-Mags and replace the spring with a Wolff + spring and it should work just fine. Without the Wolff spring, they are inconsistent. The other big advantage of the USP (versus the other large .45; the Glock) is that you can carry it cocked and locked. This is a big deal for me. I have shot the 1911 for so long that the muscle memory to ride the safety is a habit I can't break. I am so addicted to this method that I changed out the detent plate to make it a variant 9. There were times when I would press hard enough to decock it while firing so this modification made sense. Unlike the 911, you can rack the slide without disengaging the safety. Now for the down side of the USP. Because I ride the safety, I found the tang to be too wide and too low. I sent it off to Bruce Gray and he contoured the frame so it fits me much better. This voids the warranty, but makes it more comfortable in the hand. The other down side is the trigger. Mine came with the "match" trigger which is decent. It still has a lot of take-up and the reset is VERY long. Unlike most other pistols, after reset, you have a bit of take-up before you hit the sear again. There was more than one IDPA match where this became an issue. I ws attempting to fire two shots on a target but after the first, I didn't move my finger far enough forward and just sat there pressing on a trigger that hadn't been reset. that only needs to happen once to make you think twice about using it for defense. The 1911 is a gun for the enthusiast. Very few people ever are satisfied with the "out of the box" gun for very long. Its design allows the user to customize the gun to the individual needs of the shooter. If you are patient and willing to figure out what parts and features are important to you, you'll get a lot more satisfaction out of it than you will the USP. |
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*cough, cough, glock, cough* Who Said That!  1911s are not know for thier out of the box greatness. But if you do find a good springfield that has been put thru its paces it will run great. I came across a loaded springfield that someone traded in for another gun. Bought it used at 425. Came with everything but night sights, instead had novack extreme duty black sights. The gun has been flawless, feels great and easy to conceal. I don't own a HK, but hold one everynow and then at the gunshop. I'll have to have one soon. They are too nice of a gun not too. Own. The only gun I would but for 100% out of the box reliablity is a glock. All go bang out of the box. But I don't hear a lot of complaining from HK guys about thier sidearm. Are you looking to get a .45 that will also double as a CCW piece. Or just a range gun. I have been very impressed by the G36. Thinking about getting one for my CCW. |
BIG +1 Springfield has top-notch customer service and actually encourages civilian firearms ownership. On top of that, the Loaded parkerized will get you Tritium Novak Sights, Ambi Safety, Beavertail, Ring hammer, etc. for about $150-200 less than the HK. The USP IS a nice pistol and very accurate, but to me it's harder to control in rapid fire, because it is so top heavy and as a result muzzle flips too much for my liking. The 1911 Springfield is just as accurate if not more so and in rapid recoil the sights bounce right back on target. Points better too, at least for me. |
 I guess what I mean is that the top is too heavy in relation to the bottom. Needs to be more front heavy. Lower bore axis might help too, I guess. |
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I have a HK USP fullsize in 45 and a Kimber Classic Custom. I like them both but the HK is a tad big as far as the grip and frame IMO. But it has more rounds and has always been 100% reliable for me. The Kimber is just niccceee in your hand. Feels good and shoot great. (Sorry no idea about the Springfield) I would have to say....Get them both 
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| I am a total newbie when it comes to handguns. The first and only handgun I jave bought is an HK USP 45 tactical. I must admit I was very suprised with the lack of recoil and how easy it is to shoot and HIT what you are aiming at. I have never shot a 1911 so unfortunately I cant say how it would compare to one. Another thing about the HK 45 is the ability to mount the UTL light to it. Also, if you get the tactical you can put a flash hider/ muzzle brake (can't remember the brand, its been too long since I bought it) that increases accuracy and reduces recoil even more. I am totaly satisfied with mine and have not really had the desire to find another 45. |
He ain't kidding. Good job, but anything else you buy will be a severe let down. Aside from a MK23, its hard to get a "better" handgun. |
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I want to like the HK, but it's thicker than I want and the trigger absolutely sucks. That's why I'm doing the 1911 thing now. The trigger is great right now, if a tiny bit on the heavy side. That will be fixed soon though. The 1911 Springfield points perfectly for me, and has given me no trouble in nearly a thousand rounds now. Take that for what you will. |
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Let me just say that I read this entire thread before replying and the USP must be an outstanding .45. I just can not get used to the ergonomics of it. I've handled one many times and it just doesn't fit my hand well and I don't like the sharp points on the grip. I own a Springfield "Fully Loaded" S/S and it is one of the most accurate and reliable handguns I've ever owned. The only problems I've encountered is with using shitty ammo. I'll agree that HK makes some of the best handguns in the world but I cannot see myself replacing my S.A 1911 with a USP. I would buy a SIG 220 instead but it would be in addition to...not a replacement. My .02. |
Among the best one can buy.
Which is why there's many different brands; different strokes for different folks. |
Hey man, I was thinking of having Bruce do some work on my USP45 as well. I have a similar problem. Do you have any pics of what he did? Thanks Rich |
Here ya go. There really isn't as much dust on it as it looks like.   I also installed a type 9 detent plate so it doesn't decock. |
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Nice, is it much more comfortable? When I emailed him he also said that he could "tighten" up the decock lever for those who ride the safety ala 1911, yet still retain the ability to decock if necessary. I'm not sure if I'll do that or just have him put the type 9 in like yours. What was his turn around like? Thanks again Rich |
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I know his turn around time varies, but mine was about 10 days door to door. I think I got lucky on timing. I think it makes a big enough difference to be worth the time and money, but its still not a 1911. ETA: I'm not sure where you are in MD, but I just sent you an IM. If you're near NOVA, you can come down on Wednesday evening to shoot it and see how you like the mods. |
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Sounds like your mind is made up. But, I started with a Kimber Gold Match, and love it. Eventually bought a USP 9, and it was OK. Bought a USP .45 and it was OK. I had trouble feeding hydrashocks in the 9mm (not that I'd use them anymore), and the .45 didn't like the handloads that the Gold match had been happily digesting for years. I now find myself with 3 1911's (2 in .45, in 9mm), and no USP's. I could never get used to that awful trigger. I sold the USP .45 to fund a Glock 34, and the USP 9 was sold to buy a CZ 75 for my ladyfriend, and a J-frame for myself. I have never looked back. I tried to run the USP's in IDPA, but my times were always much better with a 1911 or a glock. That goofy long trigger reset slowed me down. 25 yard accuracy with the USP 9 could best be described as a pattern, whereas a Glock 19 gave me consistent 4-5" offhand groups shooting both guns back to back. Some people can shoot USP's well, I never could. I felt like I was working against myself. If I were to buy another HK it would be a P7 (or a transferable MP5 when I win the lottery  ).
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