Posted: 8/29/2014 5:13:58 PM EDT
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Looking at the Streamlight TLR-3, or TLR-4. The cost differential isn't too much. Are there other reasons to not go with the light + laser, other than obvious cost?
Other obvious things: More stuff to break Little bulkier More switches fumbling you up - zero experience here. Also, the gun I would likely be putting it on has night sights. ETA: This wouldn't be going on my night stand gun, a Glock 20 which will have an Inforce APL. |
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Light only. Lasers are stupid. Yep I will also add that for a nightstand gun if you ever needed to "point and shoot" at household distances, the beam pattern of a TLR-1 fits nicely on a human torso, more than adequate to make positive hits on a aggressor... Laser is completely unnecessary. |
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I highly recommend you get the TLR-1s unless your pistol rail doesn't accept that light. However, I was able to mount one on my USP with the addition of a $50 GG&G adapter. Money well spent. TLR-1 is way too big, it's 3.4" long. That would stick out a good 1.5" to almost 2" beyond the barrel. |
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My dad has the TLR-3 on a P229 and the light output is pathetic. It just occurred to me that you are looking at compact units, not really sure what other options are available, I know Surefire does not have anything that small What is the host weapon? Hmm, I have a TLR-3 on a P226 and was pretty happy with the light out put. Then again, it's my first and only light so I have nothing to compare it against. |
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Hmm, I have a TLR-3 on a P226 and was pretty happy with the light out put. Then again, it's my first and only light so I have nothing to compare it against. Quoted:
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My dad has the TLR-3 on a P229 and the light output is pathetic. It just occurred to me that you are looking at compact units, not really sure what other options are available, I know Surefire does not have anything that small What is the host weapon? Hmm, I have a TLR-3 on a P226 and was pretty happy with the light out put. Then again, it's my first and only light so I have nothing to compare it against. I've also read that you don't want too bright, wrecking your night vision. With some experimenting with the various flashlights I have, for being woken up in the middle of the night even 30-50 lumens is good. Of course, that may change if someone also shines a light in my face. But a bright 200 lumen light takes me a moment to adjust from dark to very bright and does wreck my night vision. I also didn't mention application, which would change what may be ideal. Backup home defense, possibly carry. |
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Light only, except in extreme edge cases. Visible red/green lasers can be helpful in training for detecting a flinch, and on certain subcompact carry pistols (LCP, Bodyguard, j frames) where the laser's dot can aid in indexing smaller sights, but they serve little purpose elsewhere. They should absolutely never be used as a primary point of aim, only as an index point for minimal sights.
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My dad has the TLR-3 on a P229 and the light output is pathetic. Have you had a TLR-3 shined in your eyes before? Remove it from the gun first, obviously, then have someone point it directly in your face, preferably in lower light situations. You'll find the light is adequate for its purposes: identification of target and temporary disruption. |
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Have you had a TLR-3 shined in your eyes before? Remove it from the gun first, obviously, then have someone point it directly in your face, preferably in lower light situations. You'll find the light is adequate for its purposes: identification of target and temporary disruption. I have been using weapon mounted lights since the old school M-3's that were only rated for 80L IIRC, Im quite aware that they will suffice for indoor use under normal conditions. However, something your not taking into consideration is a individual breaking into your home at night is still human, and they need light too... Something as simple as a D-cell Maglight countered into your face will wash out most of your illuminating capability rendering your lamp almost worthless. The TLR-1 or better lamps sporting 120L+ will be a very different story. Just a thought 
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Blade-tec makes holsters for a lot of pistol/light combinations. There are also local shops that can make holsters for light bearing guns. If you can't get a holster for it to me it is useless.
I use a light/laser for back-up when archery hunting. Lasers are VERY limited usefulness; unless you have to reach around a tree or a police shield to point at your target THEN they are darn handy. |
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While you are shooting, if you have time to locate and aim with a laser you have enough time to get behind the sights. Unless of course you couldn't get behind your sights because of obstacles or position. But let's be honest that's just splitting hairs at that point.
Use your light and position or move until you can. Shoot, move, communicate, repeat. |
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The light/laser is always your best choice because you always have both. I always have a handheld flashlight to go with mine because there are times where you want to light something up that you aren't willing to point your gun at. Anyone who says a laser doesn't give you an advantage is talking out of their butt, saying otherwise is ridiculously ignorant. You can certainly choose not to use one for whatever reason and that's fine but you can't argue their advantage, even if it is only in certain situations. We don't get to pick and choose the self defense or tactical situations that we are put into so giving yourself every advantage you can makes the most sense. You can choose to use the light only, the laser only or both, whatever best fits the situation you're in. Ideally, every defense gun should have a mounted laser and be paired with a handheld flashlight but since it's difficult for most folks to keep up with a handheld tactical flashlight with their gun it made sense to mount them to the gun. Therefore it made perfect sense to mount the flashlights to the lasers and yes, it makes them a little bulkier but not much. I'm a female and it doesn't bother me at all, I can't imagine it being too big for guys.
Don't buy into internet tough guys who say lasers have no use, we aren't taking about a video game, we are talking about real life where the good guys actually die when shot. I don't "need" a laser on my self defense/home defense gun but I damn sure "want" one. I spent years as a LEO doing building searches and such and I can tell you from real life experience when you are in that situation you will want every advantage you can possibly have. Ten years ago you could still find several prominent instructors who taught that a laser was optional but as the training and those doing the teaching have evolved you would be hard pressed to find a single reputable instructor who didn't encourage the use of lasers today. If your instructor doesn't encourage the use of lasers you may want to find a new one. I got side tracked there, this is a subject that I have strong opinions on based on my personal experience. The original question was light or light/laser and I absolutely recommend the light/laser combination if you can afford it. A quality brand is going to be plenty tough you wont have to worry about anything breaking and its fast and easy to develop the muscle memory to operate the extra functions. If you can't afford it you are better off with a mounted laser and then depending on a handheld flashlight. As I said, I have both, my gun has a light/laser and I always have a handheld tactical flashlight wherever I go. I run a Surefire X400 light/laser on my Beretta 92A1 and it's not a problem at all. I also carry either a Surefire or Streamlight flashlight in addition to the light on my gun because I want every advantage I can have in shooting situation. As you can see here on my X400, the laser is tiny and takes up very little extra space. You wouldn't even know there was a laser there without looking really closely, why wouldn't you choose a light/laser. It has proven to be perfectly reliable and extremely tough. I will say I'm less familiar with the Streamlight version, I love their flashlights but I prefer Surefire weapon lights. 
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Missed the latest replies. Ordered the light only (TLR-3). 
But I can return it if I don't like it. As in the original post, the bedside gun (Glock 20) will have the Inforce which is quite a bit brighter. I bought the TLR-3 primarily for the Glock 29, which is one of my carry guns. I'll see how it carries with that. Both have night sights. I don't like how it's a CR-2 battery vs. CR123, but size was a big factor in the decision. |
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I like lasers but not as an "aiming device". I like them as an indicator of where my muzzle is pointing if I am forced to use a non-traditional hold in a defensive situation where I cannot obtain a normal sight picture. I DO NOT co-witness my laser with the sights. It is really kinda of pointless since the sights, the bullet and the laser can only converge at one point at a fixed distance for a fraction of a second. Beyond that they are on three different paths. Instead, I index my laser parallel to the bore-line. This arrangement "hides" the laser when using my sights but if I am on my back or shooting under or over cover, I know that my muzzle is pointed ~1" "left and up" from the visible dot if the gun is in its normal orientation (I can visualize the relationship in any other orientation). This tells me if I am on center-of-mass of the target or if my muzzle is painting anything I do not wish to shoot (a car hood, my arm, an innocent bystander near my attacker, etc).
Personally, I seem to prefer the LaserGrip set-up and a separate light but I do have a few guns with the TRL-? with the light and laser (my 870 comes to mind). It is bulkier but seems to work OK. The activation controls are set up so you choose the laser/light/laser&light preference you want and the constant or momentary on/off switch is a separate control. In other words decide while you are training/practicing if you want the laser, light or laser+light combination and then set-it and forget it. When you hit the power toggle it will be set up the way you left it. |
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Quoted:
I like lasers but not as an "aiming device". I like them as an indicator of where my muzzle is pointing if I am forced to use a non-traditional hold in a defensive situation where I cannot obtain a normal sight picture. I DO NOT co-witness my laser with the sights. It is really kinda of pointless since the sights, the bullet and the laser can only converge at one point at a fixed distance for a fraction of a second. Beyond that they are on three different paths. Instead, I index my laser parallel to the bore-line. This arrangement "hides" the laser when using my sights but if I am on my back or shooting under or over cover, I know that my muzzle is pointed ~1" "left and up" from the visible dot if the gun is in its normal orientation (I can visualize the relationship in any other orientation). This tells me if I am on center-of-mass of the target or if my muzzle is painting anything I do not wish to shoot (a car hood, my arm, an innocent bystander near my attacker, etc). Personally, I seem to prefer the LaserGrip set-up and a separate light but I do have a few guns with the TRL-? with the light and laser (my 870 comes to mind). It is bulkier but seems to work OK. The activation controls are set up so you choose the laser/light/laser&light preference you want and the constant or momentary on/off switch is a separate control. In other words decide while you are training/practicing if you want the laser, light or laser+light combination and then set-it and forget it. When you hit the power toggle it will be set up the way you left it. Yup Lasers are for speed, not accuracy |