Posted: 6/30/2014 3:59:34 PM EDT
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My Ruger LCP is very reliable.
I'd like a small 9mm. |
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I own a Kahr CW-9, and my girlfriend used to carry a PF-9 and she since replaced it with an S&W Shield. I also used to own a Kel-Tec P-11 some time ago. All are close to the same size.
I can honestly say all four guns have been 100% reliable. The P-11's trigger was terrible but it had the most capacity. It was snappy. It was wider than the others, but only very slightly so. Definitely the "cheapest" and most crude. The PF-9 was snappier yet but had a little better trigger. Still very much like a staple gun, though. A little nicer than the P-11 but still rather crude. The Shield is much nicer. Way better trigger, much more confidence-inspiring quality. Only gun to come with two mags. Less snappy than either Kel-Tec. The CW-9 is my favorite, hence why I bought it. The trigger is better than the others, but it's longer than the Shield. It's VERY smooth and clean. If you like shooting nice revolvers, you'll like the Kahr trigger. The recoil impulse is most pleasant on the Kahr as well. Overall fit and quality are VERY nice. Only one of the bunch than IMO shoots like a full size gun. I'm really happy with it. |
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I have a Kahr PM9, reliable, but not the smallest. Oddly, my wife has one in all black that will sometimes fail to back into battery. I suspect it's her grip because I haven't been able to duplicate. All the small poly guns seem to have this issue. You need a firm hand on them. |
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First 2 rounds out of my wife's CW-9 Kahr jammed. I was standing there hating my life, thinking I had messed up buying it. That was the last time the gun jammed.
My wife loves it, I am thinking very seriously about getting another for my daughter. She quit letting me "borrow" it many years ago, but I was carrying it when things got thick in a parking garage and I was not worried about it not holding up its end. |
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First 2 rounds out of my wife's CW-9 Kahr jammed. I was standing there hating my life, thinking I had messed up buying it. That was the last time the gun jammed. My wife loves it, I am thinking very seriously about getting another for my daughter. She quit letting me "borrow" it many years ago, but I was carrying it when things got thick in a parking garage and I was not worried about it not holding up its end. I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical. |
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It's certainly not a double stack Quoted:
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+1 For Kahr. My CM9 has been reliable. My wife's shield is great too but it's not really a single stack. Huh? The Shield isn't a single stack? It's certainly not a double stack It's a single stack, but they widen the mag body a bit to allow the rear end of the tapered 9mm cartidges to splay in the back. The case mouths / bullets are pretty much single-stacked. Also, this gives a little more room for .40 S&W cartridges. |
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My Smith and Wesson 3913 has been 100 percent reliable with several different loads. Pics are needed to help clue the general population as to what they are missing 
The 3913 certainly IS larger than the shield/ kahr/ solo, etc, etc. but it makes up for it in a 100% reliable, robust, and easy to shoot quickly and accurately in a package only slightly larger and heavier than the current crop of micro 9's. It's smaller and lighter than an officers sized 1911. Which you would be paying $1400+ to get the level of features, finish, and refinement that is in this old smith that sells for about $450 give or take $50 on the used market. S&W 3953 (3913 in short pull DAO) versus a S&W shield 
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| My Kahr CM9 has made me a solid Kahr fan. 2 years and 2500 rounds and not a single glitch. It is my constant carry companion. Waist band carry most of the time and it completely disappears. There are a lot of good guns out there. Shoot them if you can and make a decision based on what you like best. |
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I have a Walther PPS, a Sig P938 and had a Kahr PM45 for years til I recently traded it.
The Kahr never gave me any break in trouble, although once every 100 or 200 rounds it would fail to feed on various types of ammo both 230 & 185 gr with the factory 5 round mags. It had quite a kick but was surprisingly accurate with a smooth/long pull trigger. If it had been a PM9 I might have kept it but the .45 was just too much for a pistol that small, and neither of the Kahr +1 mags I bought would operate reliably. The Sig is a recent purchase, it's as snappy as the PM45 was, with the 7 round mags I can just barely get my pinky on the grip. The stock SA trigger was short but heavy, around 10 lb pull. hard for me to get any decent groupings til I replaced the trigger spring with a colt Mustang spring, only lightened the trigger a few lbs but immediately improved my groups. It's the shortest overall and with a SA only trigger & ambi safety it can be carried safely in a pocket without a holster. I've tried several types of ammo in 115 & 147 gr with no issues. The PPS is my favorite, it's flat, light, has a wonderful trigger, and has 6, 7 & 8 round mags as an option. With 7 round mags I can still get all fingers on the grip and the 8 round grip makes it feel like a full size pistol for range time. The least muzzle jump & most accurate of the group at any distance. I was recently looking at purchasing a new pistol and handled a Glock G19 and a M&P Shield. Never shot any M&P pistol but the trigger was light & crisp and with an 8 round magazine I could easily get a full grip. If I didn't have a PPS I'd have taken it home for $400 but went with the G19 instead. I think the Shields come with and without a safety too. |
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I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical. Quoted:
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First 2 rounds out of my wife's CW-9 Kahr jammed. I was standing there hating my life, thinking I had messed up buying it. That was the last time the gun jammed. My wife loves it, I am thinking very seriously about getting another for my daughter. She quit letting me "borrow" it many years ago, but I was carrying it when things got thick in a parking garage and I was not worried about it not holding up its end. I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical. 
The manual (I know, I know...who reads the owners manual...loser!) even states the gun needs a break-in period. My PM9 has been 100% since the initial couple hundred rounds of break-in. I know several co-workers who have the CW9 or CM9 and have had the same experience... |
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The manual (I know, I know...who reads the owners manual...loser!) even states the gun needs a break-in period. My PM9 has been 100% since the initial couple hundred rounds of break-in. I know several co-workers who have the CW9 or CM9 and have had the same experience... Quoted:
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First 2 rounds out of my wife's CW-9 Kahr jammed. I was standing there hating my life, thinking I had messed up buying it. That was the last time the gun jammed. My wife loves it, I am thinking very seriously about getting another for my daughter. She quit letting me "borrow" it many years ago, but I was carrying it when things got thick in a parking garage and I was not worried about it not holding up its end. I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical.
The manual (I know, I know...who reads the owners manual...loser!) even states the gun needs a break-in period. My PM9 has been 100% since the initial couple hundred rounds of break-in. I know several co-workers who have the CW9 or CM9 and have had the same experience...
I did break it in. And then some. As had others. Perhaps their steel guns are better |
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I did break it in. And then some. As had others. Perhaps their steel guns are better Quoted:
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First 2 rounds out of my wife's CW-9 Kahr jammed. I was standing there hating my life, thinking I had messed up buying it. That was the last time the gun jammed. My wife loves it, I am thinking very seriously about getting another for my daughter. She quit letting me "borrow" it many years ago, but I was carrying it when things got thick in a parking garage and I was not worried about it not holding up its end. I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical.
The manual (I know, I know...who reads the owners manual...loser!) even states the gun needs a break-in period. My PM9 has been 100% since the initial couple hundred rounds of break-in. I know several co-workers who have the CW9 or CM9 and have had the same experience...
I did break it in. And then some. As had others. Perhaps their steel guns are better Did you have the CM-9 or PM-9? Those are pretty damn small, much smaller than the Shield, PF-9, XDS-9, etc. Maybe they don't run well, I've never shot one, but I don't really care, either. They're just too small for 9mm IMO. The P-9, CW-9, K-9 are all more along the lines of the aforementioned Shield, PF-9, or Ruger LC-9. I don't see how these larger (but still quite compact) Kahrs are "compromised". The overall quality is really impressive to me, and mine has proven to be the nicest shooting of the bunch that I've shot. It "feels" the most like I'm shooting a full size pistol and has worked with a variety of ammo so far. |
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Did you have the CM-9 or PM-9? Those are pretty damn small, much smaller than the Shield, PF-9, XDS-9, etc. Maybe they don't run well, I've never shot one, but I don't really care, either. They're just too small for 9mm IMO. The P-9, CW-9, K-9 are all more along the lines of the aforementioned Shield, PF-9, or Ruger LC-9. I don't see how these larger (but still quite compact) Kahrs are "compromised". The overall quality is really impressive to me, and mine has proven to be the nicest shooting of the bunch that I've shot. It "feels" the most like I'm shooting a full size pistol and has worked with a variety of ammo so far. Quoted:
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First 2 rounds out of my wife's CW-9 Kahr jammed. I was standing there hating my life, thinking I had messed up buying it. That was the last time the gun jammed. My wife loves it, I am thinking very seriously about getting another for my daughter. She quit letting me "borrow" it many years ago, but I was carrying it when things got thick in a parking garage and I was not worried about it not holding up its end. I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical.
The manual (I know, I know...who reads the owners manual...loser!) even states the gun needs a break-in period. My PM9 has been 100% since the initial couple hundred rounds of break-in. I know several co-workers who have the CW9 or CM9 and have had the same experience...
I did break it in. And then some. As had others. Perhaps their steel guns are better Did you have the CM-9 or PM-9? Those are pretty damn small, much smaller than the Shield, PF-9, XDS-9, etc. Maybe they don't run well, I've never shot one, but I don't really care, either. They're just too small for 9mm IMO. The P-9, CW-9, K-9 are all more along the lines of the aforementioned Shield, PF-9, or Ruger LC-9. I don't see how these larger (but still quite compact) Kahrs are "compromised". The overall quality is really impressive to me, and mine has proven to be the nicest shooting of the bunch that I've shot. It "feels" the most like I'm shooting a full size pistol and has worked with a variety of ammo so far. keltec Kahr Oops got CW and CM sizes mixed up Nevermind |
| The Shield surprised me. Never thought much of them, shot one the other day and I was impressed by how well it pointed. Fired all sorts of ammo through it (ball and 3 different weights of HP) never experienced a single stoppage. Going to have to pick one up in the near future, especially with the deals being offered by Quantico Tactical. Out the door with our high WA sales tax and it is still under $360. |
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Did you have the CM-9 or PM-9? Those are pretty damn small, much smaller than the Shield, PF-9, XDS-9, etc. Maybe they don't run well, I've never shot one, but I don't really care, either. They're just too small for 9mm IMO. The P-9, CW-9, K-9 are all more along the lines of the aforementioned Shield, PF-9, or Ruger LC-9. I don't see how these larger (but still quite compact) Kahrs are "compromised". The overall quality is really impressive to me, and mine has proven to be the nicest shooting of the bunch that I've shot. It "feels" the most like I'm shooting a full size pistol and has worked with a variety of ammo so far. Quoted:
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First 2 rounds out of my wife's CW-9 Kahr jammed. I was standing there hating my life, thinking I had messed up buying it. That was the last time the gun jammed. My wife loves it, I am thinking very seriously about getting another for my daughter. She quit letting me "borrow" it many years ago, but I was carrying it when things got thick in a parking garage and I was not worried about it not holding up its end. I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical.
The manual (I know, I know...who reads the owners manual...loser!) even states the gun needs a break-in period. My PM9 has been 100% since the initial couple hundred rounds of break-in. I know several co-workers who have the CW9 or CM9 and have had the same experience...
I did break it in. And then some. As had others. Perhaps their steel guns are better Did you have the CM-9 or PM-9? Those are pretty damn small, much smaller than the Shield, PF-9, XDS-9, etc. Maybe they don't run well, I've never shot one, but I don't really care, either. They're just too small for 9mm IMO. The P-9, CW-9, K-9 are all more along the lines of the aforementioned Shield, PF-9, or Ruger LC-9. I don't see how these larger (but still quite compact) Kahrs are "compromised". The overall quality is really impressive to me, and mine has proven to be the nicest shooting of the bunch that I've shot. It "feels" the most like I'm shooting a full size pistol and has worked with a variety of ammo so far. The compromise is reliability and durability for it's size. Take your Kahr to a few pistol classes and see how it holds up |
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The compromise is reliability and durability for it's size. Take your Kahr to a few pistol classes and see how it holds up It isn't designed to be shot 5-10K rounds. It ain't that gun. What it is is a reliable, very small and lightweight handgun for personal protection. I imagine if you got to speak with the designers they'd admit, "This isn't the gun to take to some urban-commando-mall-ninja-tier 1 tactical roll around and shoot several thousand rounds training school". Another example is the scandium frame J-frame. Wasn't designed as a target shooter. If you're using it as such you are misusing it. How come my Toyota Rav4 breaks when I go to Moab and follow the Rubicons?!?! Different items are designed for different purposes.... But, to each, their own. Mine has served admirably for several years as my carry gun when I can't carry. Prob fire 50-100 rds a year and never fails thus far. Cheers! |
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It isn't designed to be shot 5-10K rounds. It ain't that gun. What it is is a reliable, very small and lightweight handgun for personal protection. I imagine if you got to speak with the designers they'd admit, "This isn't the gun to take to some urban-commando-mall-ninja-tier 1 tactical roll around and shoot several thousand rounds training school". Another example is the scandium frame J-frame. Wasn't designed as a target shooter. If you're using it as such you are misusing it. How come my Toyota Rav4 breaks when I go to Moab and follow the Rubicons?!?! Different items are designed for different purposes.... But, to each, their own. Mine has served admirably for several years as my carry gun when I can't carry. Prob fire 50-100 rds a year and never fails thus far. Cheers! Quoted:
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The compromise is reliability and durability for it's size. Take your Kahr to a few pistol classes and see how it holds up It isn't designed to be shot 5-10K rounds. It ain't that gun. What it is is a reliable, very small and lightweight handgun for personal protection. I imagine if you got to speak with the designers they'd admit, "This isn't the gun to take to some urban-commando-mall-ninja-tier 1 tactical roll around and shoot several thousand rounds training school". Another example is the scandium frame J-frame. Wasn't designed as a target shooter. If you're using it as such you are misusing it. How come my Toyota Rav4 breaks when I go to Moab and follow the Rubicons?!?! Different items are designed for different purposes.... But, to each, their own. Mine has served admirably for several years as my carry gun when I can't carry. Prob fire 50-100 rds a year and never fails thus far. Cheers! So you are telling me that there is an island of reliability in between the abnormally extensive "break in period" and the point it starts to fall apart because it is fragile? Good luck with that. I'll stick with guns that I can proactively practice with. 3913, Glock 26, j-frame. Nothing smaller. These all work out of the box and continue to do so long afterwards. |
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So you are telling me that there is an island of reliability in between the abnormally extensive "break in period" and the point it starts to fall apart because it is fragile? Good luck with that. I'll stick with guns that I can proactively practice with. 3913, Glock 26, j-frame. Nothing smaller. These all work out of the box and continue to do so long afterwards. Quoted:
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The compromise is reliability and durability for it's size. Take your Kahr to a few pistol classes and see how it holds up It isn't designed to be shot 5-10K rounds. It ain't that gun. What it is is a reliable, very small and lightweight handgun for personal protection. I imagine if you got to speak with the designers they'd admit, "This isn't the gun to take to some urban-commando-mall-ninja-tier 1 tactical roll around and shoot several thousand rounds training school". Another example is the scandium frame J-frame. Wasn't designed as a target shooter. If you're using it as such you are misusing it. How come my Toyota Rav4 breaks when I go to Moab and follow the Rubicons?!?! Different items are designed for different purposes.... But, to each, their own. Mine has served admirably for several years as my carry gun when I can't carry. Prob fire 50-100 rds a year and never fails thus far. Cheers! So you are telling me that there is an island of reliability in between the abnormally extensive "break in period" and the point it starts to fall apart because it is fragile? Good luck with that. I'll stick with guns that I can proactively practice with. 3913, Glock 26, j-frame. Nothing smaller. These all work out of the box and continue to do so long afterwards. I miss your old avatar matt. |
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Quoted: I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical. Quoted: Quoted: First 2 rounds out of my wife's CW-9 Kahr jammed. I was standing there hating my life, thinking I had messed up buying it. That was the last time the gun jammed. My wife loves it, I am thinking very seriously about getting another for my daughter. She quit letting me "borrow" it many years ago, but I was carrying it when things got thick in a parking garage and I was not worried about it not holding up its end. I view Kahrs as fragile and compromised. Benchmark of too small to be reliable or practical. it always ran like a swiss watch.......exactly as the owners manual had said. I would agree with anyone who said that the newest small 9s have superior triggers, but for my sample size of one, Kahr would be an acceptable pistol. Edit. Nevermind, I saw you had answered this in your later posts. |
| I have gone through 2 different pf9 s (both broke), a Kahr MK9 and now a Shield all in 9mm. I still have the latter two, and both are great. The Kahr is a tiny tank, though it is one of the all steel guns, which probably makes a difference. perfectly reliable, awesome trigger, just a bit too heavy for pocket carry. Very accurately and no durability issues. The Shield which has become my carry is also great, trigger is much better than the early M&Ps, carries nice if a bit bigger than the Kahr, but lighter. I also had a PPS for a while, but sold it, as I found myself never carrying it as if I am in that size range, where I have to have a holster for a smaller single column 9mm on my belt I carry my P7. |
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Rohrbaugh R9
They may be a bit spicy though. The run from $1200 and up. A lot of money to pay for something that small. The word around the campfire is they're unpleasant to shoot. Still prefer my Shield. |