Posted: 9/8/2012 11:42:04 AM EDT
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They haven't updated their blog in over a year.
Anyone have any insight into whatever happened to the project? |
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Not to hijack my own thread, but was the 10mm a victim of it's own success or the lack of a flag-bearer pistol?
It's a great round when loaded to early Norma performance. When loaded down, might as well carry the forty-shorty and have more ammo. I'm not a Glock fan, don't like striker fired pistols. I love and own many 1911s, just not one in 10mm. The Italian CZ copies always seemed cheaply made to me. Maybe I'm wrong. I wish Sig would chamber the 220, or a similar pistol, in proper 10mm. |
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Quoted:
Not to hijack my own thread, but was the 10mm a victim of it's own success or the lack of a flag-bearer pistol? It's a great round when loaded to early Norma performance. When loaded down, might as well carry the forty-shorty and have more ammo. I'm not a Glock fan, don't like striker fired pistols. I love and own many 1911s, just not one in 10mm. The Italian CZ copies always seemed cheaply made to me. Maybe I'm wrong. I wish Sig would chamber the 220, or a similar pistol, in proper 10mm. D&D had a multitude of failure points.....No time at the moment to discuss, but the VLTOR project was the 3rd attempt. Not meant to be. |
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I wish Sig would chamber the 220, or a similar pistol, in proper 10mm.
If memory serves, there is a guy who will convert a stainless 220 to 10mm. Can't speak to durability and reliability, as they are one-offs. Personally, I think people are being too hard on VLTOR. Their Bren Ten revival project was, from the beginning, basically a side project and a labor of love. It was never going to be a huge seller because the round isn't that popular (although I do love the 10). When military and civilian market demand picks up, I can't blame a company for focusing on the things that are going to pay the bills. |
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D&D had a multitude of failure points.....No time at the moment to discuss, but the VLTOR project was the 3rd attempt. Not meant to be.
I agree with this. I'm not convinced of the basic durability of the CZ-pattern design as able to deal with a bunch of hot 10mm. Witnesses chambered in the round are well known for frequent and major parts failures. The Glock seems to be the only design which really tolerates the round. The 1911 can hold up pretty well, provided heavier recoil and hammer springs are employed. |
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Quoted: D&D had a multitude of failure points.....No time at the moment to discuss, but the VLTOR project was the 3rd attempt. Not meant to be. I agree with this. I'm not convinced of the basic durability of the CZ-pattern design as able to deal with a bunch of hot 10mm. Witnesses chambered in the round are well known for frequent and major parts failures. The Glock seems to be the only design which really tolerates the round. The 1911 can hold up pretty well, provided heavier recoil and hammer springs are employed. That was a bad patch of parts, the .45's cracked too. |
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Quoted:
I wish Sig would chamber the 220, or a similar pistol, in proper 10mm.
If memory serves, there is a guy who will convert a stainless 220 to 10mm. Can't speak to durability and reliability, as they are one-offs. Personally, I think people are being too hard on VLTOR. Their Bren Ten revival project was, from the beginning, basically a side project and a labor of love. It was never going to be a huge seller because the round isn't that popular (although I do love the 10). When military and civilian market demand picks up, I can't blame a company for focusing on the things that are going to pay the bills. Gunsmith Bruce Gray at GGI does the Sig 220ST conversions to 10mm. It is spendy. But it is a damn nice pistol when he is done with it.  . www.sigforum.com has a sticky in the Sigs Pistol section that has all the details on it.
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Quoted:
D&D had a multitude of failure points.....No time at the moment to discuss, but the VLTOR project was the 3rd attempt. Not meant to be.
I agree with this. I'm not convinced of the basic durability of the CZ-pattern design as able to deal with a bunch of hot 10mm. Witnesses chambered in the round are well known for frequent and major parts failures. The Glock seems to be the only design which really tolerates the round. The 1911 can hold up pretty well, provided heavier recoil and hammer springs are employed. I ended up NOT going Glock in 10mm due to what seemed to be an awful lot (on par with the EAA cracking reports) of 10mm Glockabooms in the various forums across the Intarwebz. Sounded like they may have had a bad batch too, and I didn't want to end up with one of them. Nobody's perfect, Colt had some cracking issues that ended up in them cutting an extra notch (presumably to allow more flex there instead of cracking?). I even ran across 1 report of a 10mm Kimber developing a crack. |
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Nothing like the original gentlemen..... This one is massaged a little. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/gmtmaster/Bren%20Ten/Brenstand.jpg Original gun: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/gmtmaster/IMG00004.jpg Crockett would be proud!! Nice piece |
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Quoted: Quoted: D&D had a multitude of failure points.....No time at the moment to discuss, but the VLTOR project was the 3rd attempt. Not meant to be. I agree with this. I'm not convinced of the basic durability of the CZ-pattern design as able to deal with a bunch of hot 10mm. Witnesses chambered in the round are well known for frequent and major parts failures. The Glock seems to be the only design which really tolerates the round. The 1911 can hold up pretty well, provided heavier recoil and hammer springs are employed. I ended up NOT going Glock in 10mm due to what seemed to be an awful lot (on par with the EAA cracking reports) of 10mm Glockabooms in the various forums across the Intarwebz. Sounded like they may have had a bad batch too, and I didn't want to end up with one of them. Nobody's perfect, Colt had some cracking issues that ended up in them cutting an extra notch (presumably to allow more flex there instead of cracking?). I even ran across 1 report of a 10mm Kimber developing a crack.  Take a look at the Mauser M2. Under rated gun, built like a tank, Beretta cougar style recoil system significantly reduces recoil, and mags a dirt cheap. All you have to do is have a .40 barrel reamed out and you can do all that for less then $600 including the gun. Mags are built to .45 acp dimensions so all you have to do is remove the spacer. It was like the damn thing was purposefully designed to be a 10mm candidate. Plus if you get a spare .40 barrel you can just drop it in and practice with cheap .40 and carry 10mm. Carries like a glock 26 but with less recoil then any comparable 10mm. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
D&D had a multitude of failure points.....No time at the moment to discuss, but the VLTOR project was the 3rd attempt. Not meant to be.
I agree with this. I'm not convinced of the basic durability of the CZ-pattern design as able to deal with a bunch of hot 10mm. Witnesses chambered in the round are well known for frequent and major parts failures. The Glock seems to be the only design which really tolerates the round. The 1911 can hold up pretty well, provided heavier recoil and hammer springs are employed. I ended up NOT going Glock in 10mm due to what seemed to be an awful lot (on par with the EAA cracking reports) of 10mm Glockabooms in the various forums across the Intarwebz. Sounded like they may have had a bad batch too, and I didn't want to end up with one of them. Nobody's perfect, Colt had some cracking issues that ended up in them cutting an extra notch (presumably to allow more flex there instead of cracking?). I even ran across 1 report of a 10mm Kimber developing a crack. Wow. I have never heard of any Glock 10mm having kaboom issues. I've heard of 40S&W kabooms (in a lot of guns) but never 10mm. Regardless, if you shun a firearm because of something you heard on the internet you wouldn't own any gun. I have the G20 and the G29 and they've both been 100% in all factory loads and my reloads. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: D&D had a multitude of failure points.....No time at the moment to discuss, but the VLTOR project was the 3rd attempt. Not meant to be. I agree with this. I'm not convinced of the basic durability of the CZ-pattern design as able to deal with a bunch of hot 10mm. Witnesses chambered in the round are well known for frequent and major parts failures. The Glock seems to be the only design which really tolerates the round. The 1911 can hold up pretty well, provided heavier recoil and hammer springs are employed. I ended up NOT going Glock in 10mm due to what seemed to be an awful lot (on par with the EAA cracking reports) of 10mm Glockabooms in the various forums across the Intarwebz. Sounded like they may have had a bad batch too, and I didn't want to end up with one of them. Nobody's perfect, Colt had some cracking issues that ended up in them cutting an extra notch (presumably to allow more flex there instead of cracking?). I even ran across 1 report of a 10mm Kimber developing a crack. http://calzaretta.com/scans/m2-10s.jpg Take a look at the Mauser M2. Under rated gun, built like a tank, Beretta cougar style recoil system significantly reduces recoil, and mags a dirt cheap. All you have to do is have a .40 barrel reamed out and you can do all that for less then $600 including the gun. Mags are built to .45 acp dimensions so all you have to do is remove the spacer. It was like the damn thing was purposefully designed to be a 10mm candidate. Plus if you get a spare .40 barrel you can just drop it in and practice with cheap .40 and carry 10mm. Carries like a glock 26 but with less recoil then any comparable 10mm. I've never had a problem with any 10mm Glock, and I've had several and still own and shoot two regularly. What led you to believe that the M2 would be safe firing full power 10mm? That's a sweet setup, I'd probably give it a try if I could see some kind of evidence that it can handle a regular diet of 10mm ammo. There's a gun show this weekend, I'm going to keep my eye open for one. Edited to add: I just googled "Mauser M2 10mm conversion". Apparently this is a popular conversion. I may have to give this a try. |
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The project was vaporware from the beginning. I got suckered into it until I cancelled my order after the second or third missed deadline. I have a special hatred of VLTOR that knows no bounds. You are not alone. They are right next to Spikes and CTD in my blacklist. Back when Bass Pro called wanting to know if I wanted to put down a deposit on them, I told the rep that I'd put cash on the counter when VLTOR put a Fortis down. The Witness is calling me, it's just low on the priority list right now. |