Posted: 7/3/2011 5:32:02 PM EDT
| I am in the market for a new gun. Just about had my mind made up on a S&W M&P 40 then I grabbed a Springfield Champion. The guy behind the counter says the 1911 is not a good gun for a first purchase. Is he right or just wanting to sale the M&P. |
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The guy behind the counter is probably right. A 1911 is a serious fighting tool, and requires a degree of knowledge and a willingness to do basic maintenance. They are not as resilient as modern polymer framed automatics, generally.
On the other hand, if you are willing to learn the manual of arms, and gain an understanding of how the system works, there is nothing better IMHO. |
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The guy behind the counter is probably right. A 1911 is a serious fighting tool, and requires a degree of knowledge and a willingness to do basic maintenance. They are not as resilient as modern polymer framed automatics, generally. On the other hand, if you are willing to learn the manual of arms, and gain an understanding of how the system works, there is nothing better IMHO. +1 agree 100% |
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really. you mean i've had it wrong all these years?
a 1911 was my first handgun. after a really rattly(sp?) hi power. and after a charter arms .38. i can reassemble a 1911 completely and field strip and reassemble eyes shut but don't mess w/my glocks & sds. my .02 |
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There are some extremes. Glocks are on one end and the 1911 is somewhere past the middle. "Glocks are for sissies" would be overstating it - but they are a good choice for training LEOs who are for the most part not gun people, have minal interest in shooting and will probably not bother with even basic maintenance. You know,the guys who are proud of never cleaning their weapon and think that's cool cuz it still runs. A 1911 is not for them. A Glock is a lot simpler - just point and pull the trigger. However a 1911 has a much better trigger, can be much more accurate is much more flexible, points a lot more naturally than a Glock and when properly maintained is very durable and very reliable.
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If I had to chose between the guns you listed it would be a 1911 every time. I don't find that the M&P offers anything original too the market, there are better and similar guns that are cheaper. I also don't think you would have a problem getting a 1911 as your first gun. You can learn complete dis-assembly over youtube in a matter of minutes. When first timers ask me what pistol they should buy I tell them the first step is choosing the caliber they want to shoot. If your looking at ballistics betwen 9mm .40 and .45 you won't find that much difference you are going to have to shoot someone 3 or 4 times to make sure they are dead with all 3 of those calibers. If you are picking a gun up to compete with well then that's a whole other can of worms, voice your questions and I will do the best I can to answer them. |
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The guy behind the counter is an idiot. Did you ask for reasons? Did he give you any?
It's as good a gun for beginners, intermediates, or the most experienced as any gun is. Pic the gun that suits you and your needs best. ETA: In response to the first two responses. Oh give me a break. The 1911 is no more complicated to take apart and take care of than the others. And saying it's not as robust is ridiculous. This was made as an implement of war. It's every bit as resilient as a polymer pistol. A properly made 1911 should give you no problems. |
| Perhaps the guy behind the counter was trying to reference that the 1911 requires a bit more attention than a handgun such as a Glock or even a revolver. You can shoot a Glock and a revolver without cleaning for many rounds. 1911's have much tighter tolerances that require more attention in maintenance. |
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First of all no one has said welcome to the site. Welcome .
Now a 1911 is a great first gun purchase . A glock is a great first time purchase a smith and wesson revolver is a great first time purchase . Any thing you can afford is great and the worst I ever bought was great - had a Llama 1911 way back in the day and did not know any better, but I still had fun. My advise is this - buy what you want and shoot it . Don't just sit around and fondle it - I mean shoot the daylights out of it . As you do that you will learn what you need to do . |
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The guy behind the counter is an idiot. Did you ask for reasons? Did he give you any? It's as good a gun for beginners, intermediates, or the most experienced as any gun is. Pic the gun that suits you and your needs best. ETA: In response to the first two responses. Oh give me a break. The 1911 is no more complicated to take apart and take care of than the others. And saying it's not as robust is ridiculous. This was made as an implement of war. It's every bit as resilient as a polymer pistol. A properly made 1911 should give you no problems. There are things you can do to a Glock, or similar nitrided poly, that would destroy any 1911, and as I clearly stated, this relates to maintenance. They are NOT as resiliant, at least in the short term, and as such may not be the best choice for a new shooter. I wouldn't argue that it is any more difficult to learn, however the 1911 breaks down into 7 basic parts, the Glock/M&P into 4/5, and we can keep going from there. . . |
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Welcome to the site! Alot of good info here. And why has no one suggest he buy both....its addicting.
The guy behind the counter. Some will be characters. I onced asked to see a glock20 10mm. The guy behind the counter said to me 'you don't want that. The recoil is bad and the ammo is expensive. You are better off with a 9mm or a .40." i said to him 'i know the 9 and the 40 are good choices, I have a few guns in each caliber. I WANT that glock 20." It came home with me that day and I'm happy it did. You should buy what you want. Research the gun before you buy and ask questions. -Are we saying that if he buys the 1911 he will have to learn to properly clean and maintain his weapon? Whats wrong with that?? |
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Ok, I own a 1911, and I own polymer wonder guns too.
I will reference the Ed Brown website where they proudly say that their custom 1911s can go 5000 rounds without issue. No doubt a great accomplishment. However, owners of Glocks, HKs, and the other good modern pistols simply sit back in their chair and chuckle at a statement like that. The modern pistols are simply in a different world from the 1911 as far as longevity and day in and day out reliability goes. This doesn't mean the 1911 is bad. It's just time and technology moving ahead, as in every other field. So, to the OP, you just need to determine your needs and wants. If you enjoy a bit of tinkering then by all means get a 1911. They can be great pistols. If you just want to shoot without getting under the hood quite so much, then get the M&P. There is no wrong answer here. Just different ones. I hope you enjoy whatever you end up with. |
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Pretty much what everyone else said. A 1911 is a good first handgun, it just takes more maintenance and know how to keep it performing %100. You wont see 1911 torture tests where they are buried and thrown around and neglected for years on end and still work. They weren't designed to do that necessarily. For me they shoot amazingly well and are fun to tinker around with. If you want a pistol that you can just have for home defense and kind of just forget about a 1911 probably isnt the best choice. |
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I don't see a problem with making your first handgun a 1911. 1911 is my favorite pistol. Learn to detail strip the pistol, and mind your maintenance. My advice, however, is that you don't make your first 1911 a Springfield Champion, or any other compact version. Start with a basic 5" full size pistol, like God and JMB intended. This will give you a pure 1911 experience, and a great baseline, against which to judge other versions, and really all other pistols. I have an extremely nice customized Springfield Armory Champion, but I still consider it a dirty bastardized little whore, compared to a real 1911. Look for a Colt Series 70 pistol, perhaps gently used, or a Springfield Armory Mil Spec. |
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The guy behind the counter is probably right. A 1911 is a serious fighting tool, and requires a degree of knowledge and a willingness to do basic maintenance. They are not as resilient as modern polymer framed automatics, generally. On the other hand, if you are willing to learn the manual of arms, and gain an understanding of how the system works, there is nothing better IMHO. Fella, that's about as good a way as I've ever seen it put. My hat's off to you sir. |
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I don't see a problem with making your first handgun a 1911. 1911 is my favorite pistol. Learn to detail strip the pistol, and mind your maintenance. My advice, however, is that you don't make your first 1911 a Springfield Champion, or any other compact version. Start with a basic 5" full size pistol, like God and JMB intended. This will give you a pure 1911 experience, and a great baseline, against which to judge other versions, and really all other pistols. I have an extremely nice customized Springfield Armory Champion, but I still consider it a dirty bastardized little whore, compared to a real 1911. Look for a Colt Series 70 pistol, perhaps gently used, or a Springfield Armory Mil Spec. This is good advice. And as far as the 1911 for a first (or second, or third) pistol..... If you like 1911s you can either learn the platform now or later. No matter, you have to do it sometime, might as well be sooner if that's what you like. |
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I'm a 1911 addict. The SF champion is a badass 1911. I would have bought it right there but thats just me. If you are the kind of bum who treats his firearms like his lawnmower then buy a polymer pistol. If you plan on shooting the hell out of it and have the discipline to break it down, clean it and keep it properly lubricated then the 1911 will be the best decision you ever made. I can break my down, clean it and have back together in 15 minutes. Is that too much to ask every 5-700 rounds?
I don't care for glocks especially. Dont feel right in my hand, less trigger than even the most modestly priced 1911 (loaded,kimber etc) and to me I was not near as accurate. 1911 fits me like a glove. Just feels awesome. Bottom line go with your gut. Obviously there was something about that Champion that made you take the time to set up on AR15.com. They go like hotcakes so call the shop and let em know what your decision is. Then post pics. We gotta see this! |
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Understand when people say more maintainance, they really mean, your gotta clean it after shooting it. I carried a 1911 for many years as a duty pistol and the cleaning and lubing I did on it were no more or less than any other pistol. I have gone through full day training programs with many hundreds of rounds fired and never found the need to stop mid day to clean the thing. I cleaned when we were done shooting for the day. My pistol was a bone stock Colt 1991 A1. It was very accurate, fast to get into action and shot where I thought.
As a complement I have a Chiappa 1911-22. If also shoots where I think and has been very reliable. I have put about 2000 rounds through it in the last week and I think I cleaned after every 500 rounds or so. These arguments that this or that pistol can go XXXX number of rounds between cleanings are just stupid. A person who actually cares about their tools cleans them after use. I would not hit the streets with a dirty glock, sig, beretta, Colt, Smith and Wesson, Keltec, or anything else, and neither would you. |
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I think what most of us are referring to when we talk about them needing more maintenance is not the cleaning but the parts maintenance. In general springs need to be replaced more often, extractors need to be monitored, ejectors need to be monitored, etc. No, it's not imperative that these things are done, but after a while you will start to notice the pistol shooting differently or developing problems especially if you shoot more than every other weekend at the range. They're just a bit more finicky than say a Glock or an M&P. |
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It takes a more of a commitment to go 1911 Than other guns for a first gun. Of course, as you learn, you will probably find out that you want a different 1911 as you discover what features are important and those that are not.
I'd advise against it. Get a a nice, modern pistol first. Then figure out what you want on a 1911. Just don't pick one that seems good right now. Because that will change as you learn. |
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Understand when people say more maintainance, they really mean, your gotta clean it after shooting it. I carried a 1911 for many years as a duty pistol and the cleaning and lubing I did on it were no more or less than any other pistol. I have gone through full day training programs with many hundreds of rounds fired and never found the need to stop mid day to clean the thing. I cleaned when we were done shooting for the day. My pistol was a bone stock Colt 1991 A1. It was very accurate, fast to get into action and shot where I thought. As a complement I have a Chiappa 1911-22. If also shoots where I think and has been very reliable. I have put about 2000 rounds through it in the last week and I think I cleaned after every 500 rounds or so. These arguments that this or that pistol can go XXXX number of rounds between cleanings are just stupid. A person who actually cares about their tools cleans them after use. I would not hit the streets with a dirty glock, sig, beretta, Colt, Smith and Wesson, Keltec, or anything else, and neither would you. I'm terribly confused!!! I had to read your post two or three times to make sure I was reading it correctly. At last someone knows what the hell he's talking about. I am so sick of these STUPID comments about how you have to maintain a 1911. First, you don't know what you're talking about, you're merely regurgitating something you've read somewhere. Secondly, in my opinion, if you don't maintain ANY firearm correctly, then you are a collosull idiot. These 2000, 5000, 10000 or 20000 round "torture tests" are doing a terrific amount of damage. There are far too many unitiated, unskilled and inexperienced people on these forums reading this stuff and it WILL lead to a generation of copmplete nicompoops! |
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Understand when people say more maintainance, they really mean, your gotta clean it after shooting it. I carried a 1911 for many years as a duty pistol and the cleaning and lubing I did on it were no more or less than any other pistol. I have gone through full day training programs with many hundreds of rounds fired and never found the need to stop mid day to clean the thing. I cleaned when we were done shooting for the day. My pistol was a bone stock Colt 1991 A1. It was very accurate, fast to get into action and shot where I thought. As a complement I have a Chiappa 1911-22. If also shoots where I think and has been very reliable. I have put about 2000 rounds through it in the last week and I think I cleaned after every 500 rounds or so. These arguments that this or that pistol can go XXXX number of rounds between cleanings are just stupid. A person who actually cares about their tools cleans them after use. I would not hit the streets with a dirty glock, sig, beretta, Colt, Smith and Wesson, Keltec, or anything else, and neither would you. I'm terribly confused!!! I had to read your post two or three times to make sure I was reading it correctly. At last someone knows what the hell he's talking about. I am so sick of these STUPID comments about how you have to maintain a 1911. First, you don't know what you're talking about, you're merely regurgitating something you've read somewhere. Secondly, in my opinion, if you don't maintain ANY firearm correctly, then you are a collosull idiot. These 2000, 5000, 10000 or 20000 round "torture tests" are doing a terrific amount of damage. There are far too many unitiated, unskilled and inexperienced people on these forums reading this stuff and it WILL lead to a generation of copmplete nicompoops! That's not what everyone has been saying, genius. When they say maintenance, they mean fully disassembling the pistol (past the factory recommendation, to the level of armorer maintenance) and replacing parts, such as the mainspring, firing pin spring, and recoil spring, tuning the extractor, and fitting the ejector. Maintenance 1911 fully disassembled Next time you open your mouth or type something on the internet, think a little bit about your chosen words, please. Because of your statement, at this moment, no one here appears more uninitiated than you. |
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First post, welcome. First gun, must be a .22.
The only handgun that you will be able to shoot enough to master the craft of shooting is a .22. May I suggest you get a Rooooooooger Mark III or (preferably) Mark II and blast away for hundreds and hundreds of rounds –– which will cost you fifty bucks over the next year for ammo. Then, when you've mastered pistol shooting with the .22, you will be better prepared to purchase a central fired handgun. Any other choice for a first handgun will lead to frustration and almost certain failure. |
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Understand when people say more maintainance, they really mean, your gotta clean it after shooting it. I carried a 1911 for many years as a duty pistol and the cleaning and lubing I did on it were no more or less than any other pistol. I have gone through full day training programs with many hundreds of rounds fired and never found the need to stop mid day to clean the thing. I cleaned when we were done shooting for the day. My pistol was a bone stock Colt 1991 A1. It was very accurate, fast to get into action and shot where I thought. As a complement I have a Chiappa 1911-22. If also shoots where I think and has been very reliable. I have put about 2000 rounds through it in the last week and I think I cleaned after every 500 rounds or so. These arguments that this or that pistol can go XXXX number of rounds between cleanings are just stupid. A person who actually cares about their tools cleans them after use. I would not hit the streets with a dirty glock, sig, beretta, Colt, Smith and Wesson, Keltec, or anything else, and neither would you. I'm terribly confused!!! I had to read your post two or three times to make sure I was reading it correctly. At last someone knows what the hell he's talking about. I am so sick of these STUPID comments about how you have to maintain a 1911. First, you don't know what you're talking about, you're merely regurgitating something you've read somewhere. Secondly, in my opinion, if you don't maintain ANY firearm correctly, then you are a collosull idiot. These 2000, 5000, 10000 or 20000 round "torture tests" are doing a terrific amount of damage. There are far too many unitiated, unskilled and inexperienced people on these forums reading this stuff and it WILL lead to a generation of copmplete nicompoops! That's not what everyone has been saying, genius. When they say maintenance, they mean fully disassembling the pistol (past the factory recommendation, to the level of armorer maintenance) and replacing parts, such as the mainspring, firing pin spring, and recoil spring, tuning the extractor, and fitting the ejector. Maintenance 1911 fully disassembled Next time you open your mouth or type something on the internet, think a little bit about your chosen words, please. Because of your statement, at this moment, no one here appears more uninitiated than you. Well Your holiness? Why would you need to do this level of teardown? I can see replacing a worn recoil spring, but then again, with modern springs, I can't see that one on a 1911 wears any faster than on anything else. Your argument is spurious at best. The 1911 requires no more or less care to maintain than anything else on the market. Yeah, if you happened to walk into the store and buy a 60 year old beat to hell military surplus pistol, you might replace a spring, extractor or small worn part. Then again, if there were such a thing as a 50 year old glock etc, I imagine you'd have to do the same thing because the steel they make their springs and small parts out of is not better or worse than the Steel Colt, Armscor, Imbel or any of the other gunmakers use. |
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Quoted: Quoted: That's not what everyone has been saying, genius. When they say maintenance, they mean fully disassembling the pistol (past the factory recommendation, to the level of armorer maintenance) and replacing parts, such as the mainspring, firing pin spring, and recoil spring, tuning the extractor, and fitting the ejector. Maintenance 1911 fully disassembled Next time you open your mouth or type something on the internet, think a little bit about your chosen words, please. Because of your statement, at this moment, no one here appears more uninitiated than you. Well Your holiness? Why would you need to do this level of teardown? I can see replacing a worn recoil spring, but then again, with modern springs, I can't see that one on a 1911 wears any faster than on anything else. Your argument is spurious at best. The 1911 requires no more or less care to maintain than anything else on the market. Yeah, if you happened to walk into the store and buy a 60 year old beat to hell military surplus pistol, you might replace a spring, extractor or small worn part. Then again, if there were such a thing as a 50 year old glock etc, I imagine you'd have to do the same thing because the steel they make their springs and small parts out of is not better or worse than the Steel Colt, Armscor, Imbel or any of the other gunmakers use. You hit the nail on the head man. Anytime there is any kind of update in handgun technology they implement that into the 1911. Its a handgun just like any other handgun, maybe even simpler then most. You can learn break down in 5 minutes. OP its personal preference on your part, consider how much you want to spend on ammo, shoot a few different guns, see what feels good for you. |
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I personally think that a Springer Champion would be a fine and manly choice for your first handgun. Great gun!
It's not rocket science man, just read the manual, and follow the the safety rules and you'll be fine. Sometimes the guy behind the counter is just wrong. |
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Understand when people say more maintainance, they really mean, your gotta clean it after shooting it. I carried a 1911 for many years as a duty pistol and the cleaning and lubing I did on it were no more or less than any other pistol. I have gone through full day training programs with many hundreds of rounds fired and never found the need to stop mid day to clean the thing. I cleaned when we were done shooting for the day. My pistol was a bone stock Colt 1991 A1. It was very accurate, fast to get into action and shot where I thought. As a complement I have a Chiappa 1911-22. If also shoots where I think and has been very reliable. I have put about 2000 rounds through it in the last week and I think I cleaned after every 500 rounds or so. These arguments that this or that pistol can go XXXX number of rounds between cleanings are just stupid. A person who actually cares about their tools cleans them after use. I would not hit the streets with a dirty glock, sig, beretta, Colt, Smith and Wesson, Keltec, or anything else, and neither would you. I'm terribly confused!!! I had to read your post two or three times to make sure I was reading it correctly. At last someone knows what the hell he's talking about. I am so sick of these STUPID comments about how you have to maintain a 1911. First, you don't know what you're talking about, you're merely regurgitating something you've read somewhere. Secondly, in my opinion, if you don't maintain ANY firearm correctly, then you are a collosull idiot. These 2000, 5000, 10000 or 20000 round "torture tests" are doing a terrific amount of damage. There are far too many unitiated, unskilled and inexperienced people on these forums reading this stuff and it WILL lead to a generation of copmplete nicompoops! That's not what everyone has been saying, genius. When they say maintenance, they mean fully disassembling the pistol (past the factory recommendation, to the level of armorer maintenance) and replacing parts, such as the mainspring, firing pin spring, and recoil spring, tuning the extractor, and fitting the ejector. Maintenance 1911 fully disassembled Next time you open your mouth or type something on the internet, think a little bit about your chosen words, please. Because of your statement, at this moment, no one here appears more uninitiated than you. Well Your holiness? Why would you need to do this level of teardown? I can see replacing a worn recoil spring, but then again, with modern springs, I can't see that one on a 1911 wears any faster than on anything else. Your argument is spurious at best. The 1911 requires no more or less care to maintain than anything else on the market. Yeah, if you happened to walk into the store and buy a 60 year old beat to hell military surplus pistol, you might replace a spring, extractor or small worn part. Then again, if there were such a thing as a 50 year old glock etc, I imagine you'd have to do the same thing because the steel they make their springs and small parts out of is not better or worse than the Steel Colt, Armscor, Imbel or any of the other gunmakers use. Modern 1911s don't seem to run on different maintenance schedules than the one I posted. I don't see why they would. The parts replacement schedule is still more stringent than any modern pistol I know of, and parts require more fitting than modern pistols. The poster seemed to be getting irritated that people don't take care of pistols in the most basic way. I was merely pointing out that this was not the general argument. He was also, for some reason, getting angry at people he perceived to be doing torture tests and ranting about uninitiated people doing this or saying that. I thought this was rather idiotic. I've had trouble with a 1911 extractor, and it was irritating to break down and attempt to fix the problem. It had to be sent back. If it had been a Glock, I could have replaced the extractor myself. I do, however, doubt my ability to repair any other pistol than the Glock model. An increase in spring maintenance will likely not be an issue for most people, and when parts break, armorer inspection and repair is probably necessary, and the pistol has probably seen many rounds. I was more irritated at the tone of the above poster than I was being a proponent or opponent of purchasing a 1911, mostly because he seemed to be tilting at windmills in a state of anger and, in the process, failed to see the entire reasoning, and the merits within the reasoning, of some other posters. I would recommend a newer model, though, simply because I like the wonder nines of the modern day. But that's just me. |
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Understand when people say more maintainance, they really mean, your gotta clean it after shooting it. I carried a 1911 for many years as a duty pistol and the cleaning and lubing I did on it were no more or less than any other pistol. I have gone through full day training programs with many hundreds of rounds fired and never found the need to stop mid day to clean the thing. I cleaned when we were done shooting for the day. My pistol was a bone stock Colt 1991 A1. It was very accurate, fast to get into action and shot where I thought. As a complement I have a Chiappa 1911-22. If also shoots where I think and has been very reliable. I have put about 2000 rounds through it in the last week and I think I cleaned after every 500 rounds or so. These arguments that this or that pistol can go XXXX number of rounds between cleanings are just stupid. A person who actually cares about their tools cleans them after use. I would not hit the streets with a dirty glock, sig, beretta, Colt, Smith and Wesson, Keltec, or anything else, and neither would you. I'm terribly confused!!! I had to read your post two or three times to make sure I was reading it correctly. At last someone knows what the hell he's talking about. I am so sick of these STUPID comments about how you have to maintain a 1911. First, you don't know what you're talking about, you're merely regurgitating something you've read somewhere. Secondly, in my opinion, if you don't maintain ANY firearm correctly, then you are a collosull idiot. These 2000, 5000, 10000 or 20000 round "torture tests" are doing a terrific amount of damage. There are far too many unitiated, unskilled and inexperienced people on these forums reading this stuff and it WILL lead to a generation of copmplete nicompoops! That's not what everyone has been saying, genius. When they say maintenance, they mean fully disassembling the pistol (past the factory recommendation, to the level of armorer maintenance) and replacing parts, such as the mainspring, firing pin spring, and recoil spring, tuning the extractor, and fitting the ejector. Maintenance 1911 fully disassembled Next time you open your mouth or type something on the internet, think a little bit about your chosen words, please. Because of your statement, at this moment, no one here appears more uninitiated than you. Well Your holiness? Why would you need to do this level of teardown? I can see replacing a worn recoil spring, but then again, with modern springs, I can't see that one on a 1911 wears any faster than on anything else. Your argument is spurious at best. The 1911 requires no more or less care to maintain than anything else on the market. Yeah, if you happened to walk into the store and buy a 60 year old beat to hell military surplus pistol, you might replace a spring, extractor or small worn part. Then again, if there were such a thing as a 50 year old glock etc, I imagine you'd have to do the same thing because the steel they make their springs and small parts out of is not better or worse than the Steel Colt, Armscor, Imbel or any of the other gunmakers use. Modern 1911s don't seem to run on different maintenance schedules than the one I posted. I don't see why they would. The parts replacement schedule is still more stringent than any modern pistol I know of, and parts require more fitting than modern pistols. The poster seemed to be getting irritated that people don't take care of pistols in the most basic way. I was merely pointing out that this was not the general argument. He was also, for some reason, getting angry at people he perceived to be doing torture tests and ranting about uninitiated people doing this or saying that. I thought this was rather idiotic. I've had trouble with a 1911 extractor, and it was irritating to break down and attempt to fix the problem. It had to be sent back. If it had been a Glock, I could have replaced the extractor myself. I do, however, doubt my ability to repair any other pistol than the Glock model. An increase in spring maintenance will likely not be an issue for most people, and when parts break, armorer inspection and repair is probably necessary, and the pistol has probably seen many rounds. I was more irritated at the tone of the above poster than I was being a proponent or opponent of purchasing a 1911, mostly because he seemed to be tilting at windmills in a state of anger and, in the process, failed to see the entire reasoning, and the merits within the reasoning, of some other posters. I would recommend a newer model, though, simply because I like the wonder nines of the modern day. But that's just me. You want to torture test your own stuff, more power to you. I do get irritated though when people regurgitate the same tired old internet BS over and over again. As to changing a 1911 extractor I've never found it to be a problem. Like anything else, do it once and you've done it a thousand times. The fact though remains that with similar use, I can't see one breaking or needing service any more often than anything else. I shoot a great deal, no problems here. I've got .22s with 10s of thousands of rounds and again, see little difference in spring replacements from any one to another. Same with centerfires. Again, no real difference in replacements. Most people will never shoot that much. Most people will never replace a spring. In general I consider the glock inferior to the 1911 but not a bad pistol for people who are looking for the least common denominator. I do not recommend them to anyone due to their lack of safety and light trigger but to each his own. |
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There are some extremes. Glocks are on one end and the 1911 is somewhere past the middle. "Glocks are for sissies" would be overstating it - but they are a good choice for training LEOs who are for the most part not gun people, have minal interest in shooting and will probably not bother with even basic maintenance. You know,the guys who are proud of never cleaning their weapon and think that's cool cuz it still runs. A 1911 is not for them. A Glock is a lot simpler - just point and pull the trigger. However a 1911 has a much better trigger, can be much more accurate is much more flexible, points a lot more naturally than a Glock and when properly maintained is very durable and very reliable. You should have a discussion w/ Broken Arrow, OK. PD about that... Most carry Wilson Combat 1911's |
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Understand when people say more maintainance, they really mean, your gotta clean it after shooting it. I carried a 1911 for many years as a duty pistol and the cleaning and lubing I did on it were no more or less than any other pistol. I have gone through full day training programs with many hundreds of rounds fired and never found the need to stop mid day to clean the thing. I cleaned when we were done shooting for the day. My pistol was a bone stock Colt 1991 A1. It was very accurate, fast to get into action and shot where I thought. As a complement I have a Chiappa 1911-22. If also shoots where I think and has been very reliable. I have put about 2000 rounds through it in the last week and I think I cleaned after every 500 rounds or so. These arguments that this or that pistol can go XXXX number of rounds between cleanings are just stupid. A person who actually cares about their tools cleans them after use. I would not hit the streets with a dirty glock, sig, beretta, Colt, Smith and Wesson, Keltec, or anything else, and neither would you. I'm terribly confused!!! I had to read your post two or three times to make sure I was reading it correctly. At last someone knows what the hell he's talking about. I am so sick of these STUPID comments about how you have to maintain a 1911. First, you don't know what you're talking about, you're merely regurgitating something you've read somewhere. Secondly, in my opinion, if you don't maintain ANY firearm correctly, then you are a collosull idiot. These 2000, 5000, 10000 or 20000 round "torture tests" are doing a terrific amount of damage. There are far too many unitiated, unskilled and inexperienced people on these forums reading this stuff and it WILL lead to a generation of copmplete nicompoops! That's not what everyone has been saying, genius. When they say maintenance, they mean fully disassembling the pistol (past the factory recommendation, to the level of armorer maintenance) and replacing parts, such as the mainspring, firing pin spring, and recoil spring, tuning the extractor, and fitting the ejector. Maintenance 1911 fully disassembled Next time you open your mouth or type something on the internet, think a little bit about your chosen words, please. Because of your statement, at this moment, no one here appears more uninitiated than you. Well Your holiness? Why would you need to do this level of teardown? I can see replacing a worn recoil spring, but then again, with modern springs, I can't see that one on a 1911 wears any faster than on anything else. Your argument is spurious at best. The 1911 requires no more or less care to maintain than anything else on the market. Yeah, if you happened to walk into the store and buy a 60 year old beat to hell military surplus pistol, you might replace a spring, extractor or small worn part. Then again, if there were such a thing as a 50 year old glock etc, I imagine you'd have to do the same thing because the steel they make their springs and small parts out of is not better or worse than the Steel Colt, Armscor, Imbel or any of the other gunmakers use. Modern 1911s don't seem to run on different maintenance schedules than the one I posted. I don't see why they would. The parts replacement schedule is still more stringent than any modern pistol I know of, and parts require more fitting than modern pistols. The poster seemed to be getting irritated that people don't take care of pistols in the most basic way. I was merely pointing out that this was not the general argument. He was also, for some reason, getting angry at people he perceived to be doing torture tests and ranting about uninitiated people doing this or saying that. I thought this was rather idiotic. I've had trouble with a 1911 extractor, and it was irritating to break down and attempt to fix the problem. It had to be sent back. If it had been a Glock, I could have replaced the extractor myself. I do, however, doubt my ability to repair any other pistol than the Glock model. An increase in spring maintenance will likely not be an issue for most people, and when parts break, armorer inspection and repair is probably necessary, and the pistol has probably seen many rounds. I was more irritated at the tone of the above poster than I was being a proponent or opponent of purchasing a 1911, mostly because he seemed to be tilting at windmills in a state of anger and, in the process, failed to see the entire reasoning, and the merits within the reasoning, of some other posters. I would recommend a newer model, though, simply because I like the wonder nines of the modern day. But that's just me. You want to torture test your own stuff, more power to you. I do get irritated though when people regurgitate the same tired old internet BS over and over again. As to changing a 1911 extractor I've never found it to be a problem. Like anything else, do it once and you've done it a thousand times. The fact though remains that with similar use, I can't see one breaking or needing service any more often than anything else. I shoot a great deal, no problems here. I've got .22s with 10s of thousands of rounds and again, see little difference in spring replacements from any one to another. Same with centerfires. Again, no real difference in replacements. Most people will never shoot that much. Most people will never replace a spring. In general I consider the glock inferior to the 1911 but not a bad pistol for people who are looking for the least common denominator. I do not recommend them to anyone due to their lack of safety and light trigger but to each his own. Torture tests are stupid. I have nothing against endurance tests, though. They are valuable for assessing weaknesses in any model. These types of tests are done frequently at Pistol Training, and while they offer only a test sample of one, it is still interesting to see which parts give out, and when. As for maintenance on the 1911, someone who will not put tens of thousands of rounds downrange each year will likely never have to break it down to the point I was referring to. If it is purchased from Springfield Armory, they will likely do any repairs for free, anyway. I've liked the Springfield 1911s I've fired, and they have budget, basic 1911s. That may be a good route to take for a new shooter looking for a 1911. |
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Decided on a Rock Island. Picked her up today
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj187/LaneAmie/SDC10035.jpg |
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the only thing you really need to check on a 1911 thats made well to begin with is the recoil spring and the extractor.
those are the two things that wear most often and even then it seems to be only some pistols that have issues with this. My grandfather has a systema that fires and fires and fires and we havnt changed a thing on it in 15+ years |