Posted: 2/19/2011 2:11:50 PM EDT
| What purpose does 45ACP +P serve really? Can a Glock 21sf handle the load? |
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The G21 is a G20 converted to shoot 45. The G20 was designed from the ground up to shoot 10mm, a much hotter round that 45 ACP +p. A G21, after shooting 45+p through it, will look at you and say "Is that all you've got?". What is the average fps for 45+p in a 230 grain bullet? |
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The G21 is a G20 converted to shoot 45. The G20 was designed from the ground up to shoot 10mm, a much hotter round that 45 ACP +p. A G21, after shooting 45+p through it, will look at you and say "Is that all you've got?". What is the average fps for 45+p in a 230 grain bullet? ~950 FPS |
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A +P load in 45 ACP produces about 23,000psi rather than 21,000 psi, and in any given bullet weight, you pick up about 50 fps.
If there is any valid argument for a .45 ACP +P load it is the potential for a bit more penetration - but another 50 fps is not going to get you all that much. The "proper expansion of a hollow point" argument is bogus as most hollow points are designed to work at normal ranges and normal .45 ACP velocities. The .45 ACP does not really need more energy or momentum as it already has good stopping power. In that regard, if shooting a light weight, compact .45, a +P load could be counter productive if any extra recoil reduces your ability to get good bullet placement. More energy and more velocity will ot compensate for poor bullet placement. Which is just a nice way to say that .45 ACP +P sounds sexy and probably sells well with the more must be better crowd, but it is one of the dumber ideas that's been promoted lately. |
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Hornady shows its +p 230 grain load running at 960fps... substantally more than 50fps.
Ive seen one other stating 990fps, but I cant remember who makes it. Many more state 950fps. These are all greater than the average 850fps or so from standard velocity loads. My Glock21 runs everything fine, and I use a heavier spring to help. The new, hotter loads really improve the old 45ACP, which is a proven round as is. But IMO, and others much more learned than mine, it really takes the round up a couple notches and makes it even more deadly. Just make sure the specific firearm you use it in can handle it. |
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The Glock can take it.
Personally, I'd like to know if they redesigned the bullet to work at those velocities, or if they just dropped in an extra grain of powder. If it's the former, it'd be a decent choice as long as the recoil wasn't too bad. If it's the latter, you run the chance of pushing the bullet too fast and either getting extreme expansion and poor penetration or fast expansion while folding the expanded jacket back upon the bullet (decreasing effectiveness). Personally, I choose a standard pressure 230gr load for my carry round. That way, I know it'll work like they designed it to. It allows for slightly faster follow-ups and decreased wear and tear as well. Standard pressure .45 is what got the .45 the reputation it has, not some whizbang super hot round that may or may not work as intended. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Hornady shows its +p 230 grain load running at 960fps... substantally more than 50fps. Ive seen one other stating 990fps, but I cant remember who makes it. Many more state 950fps. These are all greater than the average 850fps or so from standard velocity loads. My Glock21 runs everything fine, and I use a heavier spring to help. The new, hotter loads really improve the old 45ACP, which is a proven round as is. But IMO, and others much more learned than mine, it really takes the round up a couple notches and makes it even more deadly. Just make sure the specific firearm you use it in can handle it. I ordered the Hornady +P 230's from Palmetto State Armory because they were a hell of a deal at the time. $17 for 20 SD rounds in .45, wow. So I said I will play. They mistakenly sent me the Hornady +P 200 grains and the box rates them at 1055 fps out of a 5 inch barrel. I just kept them and Damn, they really wake the old .45 up. I like em and will order them again. |
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Hey jmreagan-
How did those +P's shoot? What kinda pistol did you shoot them out of? Im gonna order some tomorrow...60rnds. 20 for accuracy & reliability testing out of my G21, and 40 to keep loaded up in my 3 ready to go mags. Did you notice much greater recoil/noise? |
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Hey jmreagan- How did those +P's shoot? What kinda pistol did you shoot them out of? Im gonna order some tomorrow...60rnds. 20 for accuracy & reliability testing out of my G21, and 40 to keep loaded up in my 3 ready to go mags. Did you notice much greater recoil/noise? I shot them out of my 1911 Springfield with a 5 inch barrel. Yes, they are louder and have a more noticeable "push" in recoil. You will know your shooting something with a little more "umph" behind it for sure. Does Hornady make a +P in .40? |
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Ive not seen a +P .40 from anyone, now that you ask and i think about it. Thats odd come to think of it. Anyone know of one? It is because SAAMI doesn't recognize a .40+P. Even if there is one available, there is no way to know how safe or what pressure it is exerting as there is no standard for it. |
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Ive not seen a +P .40 from anyone, now that you ask and i think about it. Thats odd come to think of it. Anyone know of one? It's because standard pressure .40 is already high pressure. Look at the number of kabooms from .40 S&W pistols compared to other calibers. Would you really want it to be even higher pressure? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: Quoted: Ive not seen a +P .40 from anyone, now that you ask and i think about it. Thats odd come to think of it. Anyone know of one? It's because standard pressure .40 is already high pressure. Look at the number of kabooms from .40 S&W pistols compared to other calibers. Would you really want it to be even higher pressure? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile .40 SW ––––max pressure 35,000 PSI 9x19 ––––––max pressure 35,000 PSI 9x19 +P –––max pressure 38,500 PSI |
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it is a historical development thing. the steel used to make the guns in the early 1900's was nowhere near as strong as modern alloys....so they designed guns with pressures around 20,000 psi. early 1911's have a problem with the slides getting peened loose from shooting a lot of rounds....and early K frame SW revolvers cannot handle 357 magnum loads like the later K frames (model 19 for example)..
the 40SW, as stated, is a modern high-pressure round. if you want a 40SW +P, it is called a 10mm. |
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Personally, I'd like to know if they redesigned the bullet to work at those velocities, or if they just dropped in an extra grain of powder. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Are you asking if all manufacturers of .45ACP +P ammunition make a special "+P Bullet?" |
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It gives u a little flatter trajectory but is still subsonic. There is littlle point to it tho as most new hp expand fine at lower velocities.
For sure it can take +p. There is some ? About feeding it a steady diet of supers tho. If u reload u might notice the brass wear out sooner w/ the chamber not fully supporting te brass w/ oem barrel. |
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I have the ranger .45 +P in my sig P220 R elite and they are noticeably hotter then standard .45 ammo. here is a link to Winchester page comparing the 2 loads http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/default.aspx |
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Sorry it did not carry over the loads I had selected, you will have to check them yourselves. it looks like there is a huge difference in performance with almost a 100 foot pounds more energy at the muzzle. I have just switched to carrying .45 after years of carrying .357 sig and 9mm before that and I started out with buying the plus P so I really have no base line to go with |
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Hornady shows its +p 230 grain load running at 960fps... substantally more than 50fps. Ive seen one other stating 990fps, but I cant remember who makes it. Many more state 950fps. These are all greater than the average 850fps or so from standard velocity loads. My Glock21 runs everything fine, and I use a heavier spring to help. The new, hotter loads really improve the old 45ACP, which is a proven round as is. But IMO, and others much more learned than mine, it really takes the round up a couple notches and makes it even more deadly. Just make sure the specific firearm you use it in can handle it. actual tests show otherwise. +P does very little. |
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Personally, I'd like to know if they redesigned the bullet to work at those velocities, or if they just dropped in an extra grain of powder. Are you asking if all manufacturers of .45ACP +P ammunition make a special "+P Bullet?" Intended as a rhetorical question (that I mis-worded), I know they don't. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Absolutely.
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Hornady shows its +p 230 grain load running at 960fps... substantally more than 50fps. Ive seen one other stating 990fps, but I cant remember who makes it. Many more state 950fps. These are all greater than the average 850fps or so from standard velocity loads. My Glock21 runs everything fine, and I use a heavier spring to help. The new, hotter loads really improve the old 45ACP, which is a proven round as is. But IMO, and others much more learned than mine, it really takes the round up a couple notches and makes it even more deadly. Just make sure the specific firearm you use it in can handle it. actual tests show otherwise. +P does very little. I stopped believing sales brochures and box top velocities the day after I bought my first chronograph. Once you get one it becomes clear that your mileage WILL vary. |
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Absolutely.
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Hornady shows its +p 230 grain load running at 960fps... substantally more than 50fps. Ive seen one other stating 990fps, but I cant remember who makes it. Many more state 950fps. These are all greater than the average 850fps or so from standard velocity loads. My Glock21 runs everything fine, and I use a heavier spring to help. The new, hotter loads really improve the old 45ACP, which is a proven round as is. But IMO, and others much more learned than mine, it really takes the round up a couple notches and makes it even more deadly. Just make sure the specific firearm you use it in can handle it. actual tests show otherwise. +P does very little. Many variables on this. Manufacturers use "test" barrels to do velocity measurements. Actual reslults vary, usually much less. I stopped believing sales brochures and box top velocities the day after I bought my first chronograph. Once you get one it becomes clear that your mileage WILL vary. |
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The Glock can take it. Personally, I'd like to know if they redesigned the bullet to work at those velocities, or if they just dropped in an extra grain of powder. If it's the former, it'd be a decent choice as long as the recoil wasn't too bad. If it's the latter, you run the chance of pushing the bullet too fast and either getting extreme expansion and poor penetration or fast expansion while folding the expanded jacket back upon the bullet (decreasing effectiveness). Personally, I choose a standard pressure 230gr load for my carry round. That way, I know it'll work like they designed it to. It allows for slightly faster follow-ups and decreased wear and tear as well. Standard pressure .45 is what got the .45 the reputation it has, not some whizbang super hot round that may or may not work as intended. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile +1 Glock can handle it. BTW - there is even a .45ACP based round well beyond +p. Google ".45 Super." I would not try it in the 21 without a lot of prior research. I own one of the few designs that can take Super without mods: the S&W 625 revolver. The purpose of 45 Super? For one, it does turn my 45 revolver into a suitable deer hunting handgun at reasonable revolver hunting ranges. |
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In my case, I run +Ps to make up for the velocity loss in the shorter barrel of my G36, where standard pressure loads can sometimes run at sub 800 fps.
In 230 gr bullet weight +P chronographs out to around 850-860 fps....right where the original round was designed to perform from a 5" barreled 1911. My nightstand G21 on the other hand is loaded with standard pressure loads. Plenty of velocity from that barrel. |
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