[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disappointed with Hi Power (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/23/2010 5:02:51 PM EDT
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Took my MK III to the range today. It works flawlessly except I had to be real careful to have my left thumb completely away from the slide and the slide stop. If I didn't the slide would lock back. This happened about 20 times.
My old '62 FN never did this. This is annoying because it is very awkward for me to make sure that my thumb is all the way forward of the slide release. In a quick situation I might bump it. |
| I know nothing about the Hi Power, my brother in law has two and many years ago I had a clone that ran fine, but if its used could the slide stop be worn, or the notch in the slide that engages the stop be worn? It never seemed to me that they were that sensative to just being bumped. |
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Quoted: http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:gBqs63adModp6M:http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/Rodzilla109/not-sure-if-serious.jpg&t=1 You all keep bashing the BHP, might drive prices back down. Meanwhile... http://www.shepsworld.com/pistols/hipowers.jpg Only bashing the BHP cuz I've never had one and I have four CZ's. I prefer JMB's other pistol better than either. |
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Shoulda bought a CZ-75  I would prefer the CZ over the HP as well, on mag capacity alone. http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:gBqs63adModp6M:http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/Rodzilla109/not-sure-if-serious.jpg&t=1 You all keep bashing the BHP, might drive prices back down. Meanwhile... http://www.shepsworld.com/pistols/hipowers.jpg Sure am. The standard browning mag holds 13, my CZ holds 16 in a package that is just as slim, with almost the same grip angle. I like the BHP, the examples I have shot have had crappy sites but that is easy enough to fix. And I do think that JMBs second design is superior to his first, I just think the CZ is an improvement in a lot of ways over the HP. |
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http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:gBqs63adModp6M:http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/Rodzilla109/not-sure-if-serious.jpg&t=1 You all keep bashing the BHP, might drive prices back down. Meanwhile... http://www.shepsworld.com/pistols/hipowers.jpg Only bashing the BHP cuz I've never had one and I have four CZ's. I prefer JMB's other pistol better than either. BHP's are awesome pistols but the 1911 is his best design too imho. |
JMB was the undisputed best firearms designer in his day .The HP was magnificent a weapon in it's day .It is still a great pistol for those who can adapt to their system . They are not for everyone .It was the only high cap 9mm pistol worth owning in 1935 . However this is 2010 and it is not state of the art any longer . That said I have absolutly no problem shooting mine for the last 40 years .It was my first semi auto 9mm ,and still a pistol I will never sell . Like the 32 Ford V8 flat head or the 1955 Chevy V8 265 small block ,time has brought us better designs .Time marchs on . 
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The High Powers are nice safe queens that feel great in the hand, but when you actually get to the range with them, their flaws start to show through.
Fairly heavy trigger that has a mushy, long reset, a tiny magwell that makes any mag change faster than "glacial" impossible, a hammer that will bite anyone who tries to take a high thumbs hold, a magazine safety that can't be removed from the gun without violating competition rules, single grip screw that gives aftermarket grips a convenient pivot point to rotate around when firing, and on the older guns, safeties and sights that are almost too small to use, and far too small to use in a hurry. Let's not forget the unfortunate tendency to place the frame serial number on the frontstrap, precluding a variety of permanent grip treatments, and on older guns, a humped feed ramp that will make feeding hollowpoints troublesome. I have had good luck with the South African 17 round magazines, though. Sidebar / Obligatory Rant: FN had a great chance to address the shortcomings of the HP in the early 90s, with the Browning Double Mode aka BDM. Unfortunately, the features on this guy were so far removed from what shooters actually wanted, that it seemed to have been designed on a napkin by the executive committee, 4 martinis into a 6 martini lunch. Plastic sights, a safety that operated exactly opposite from the HP and 1911, and magazines that were a proprietary design instead of being compatible with the millions of BHP magazines that were soon to be highly valued during the upcoming Clinton Assault Weapon Ban. It was truly a shame because the BDM felt even better in the hand than the HP did, and could have been the new standard in wondernines. Family photo, but the FEG at the bottom has had a facelift in the meantime. 
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The High Powers are nice safe queens that feel great in the hand, but when you actually get to the range with them, their flaws start to show through. Fairly heavy trigger that has a mushy, long reset, a tiny magwell that makes any mag change faster than "glacial" impossible, a hammer that will bite anyone who tries to take a high thumbs hold, a magazine safety that can't be removed from the gun without violating competition rules, single grip screw that gives aftermarket grips a convenient pivot point to rotate around when firing, and on the older guns, safeties and sights that are almost too small to use, and far too small to use in a hurry. Let's not forget the unfortunate tendency to place the frame serial number on the frontstrap, precluding a variety of permanent grip treatments, and on older guns, a humped feed ramp that will make feeding hollowpoints troublesome. I have had good luck with the South African 17 round magazines, though. Sidebar / Obligatory Rant: FN had a great chance to address the shortcomings of the HP in the early 90s, with the Browning Double Mode aka BDM. Unfortunately, the features on this guy were so far removed from what shooters actually wanted, that it seemed to have been designed on a napkin by the executive committee, 4 martinis into a 6 martini lunch. Plastic sights, a safety that operated exactly opposite from the HP and 1911, and magazines that were a proprietary design instead of being compatible with the millions of BHP magazines that were soon to be highly valued during the upcoming Clinton Assault Weapon Ban. It was truly a shame because the BDM felt even better in the hand than the HP did, and could have been the new standard in wondernines. Family photo, but the FEG at the bottom has had a facelift in the meantime. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/3hps.jpg Thought this was an excellent pro/con description of the BHP. I bought a brand new FN BHP in 2002 or so. I loved the pistol, truly thought it was one of the best 9mm's ever created. T'was a very efficient size and made me wonder why typcial high cap 9mm's were typically so large, ala Beretta 92FS. Loved the pistol, except for.... The truly crappy trigger out of the box, and yes, I removed the mag safety. Hammer bite!!!! Ran a few mags on the gun and after some blood was drawn, started loosing my love for the pistol. Swapped it for a SA 1911 Loaded and am very happy w/ the SA. I also have a CZ75B.40 SA. Very accurate pistol. I see the comparisons of the BHP and CZ75 quite a bit. I don't think they are that similar, aside from being high cap 9mm's that have a metal frame. The BHP has a much more efficient size in the gip. The CZ uses Sig P210 type internal slide/frame rails. |
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The High Powers are nice safe queens that feel great in the hand, but when you actually get to the range with them, their flaws start to show through. Fairly heavy trigger that has a mushy, long reset, a tiny magwell that makes any mag change faster than "glacial" impossible, a hammer that will bite anyone who tries to take a high thumbs hold, a magazine safety that can't be removed from the gun without violating competition rules, single grip screw that gives aftermarket grips a convenient pivot point to rotate around when firing, and on the older guns, safeties and sights that are almost too small to use, and far too small to use in a hurry. Let's not forget the unfortunate tendency to place the frame serial number on the frontstrap, precluding a variety of permanent grip treatments, and on older guns, a humped feed ramp that will make feeding hollowpoints troublesome. I have had good luck with the South African 17 round magazines, though. Sidebar / Obligatory Rant: FN had a great chance to address the shortcomings of the HP in the early 90s, with the Browning Double Mode aka BDM. Unfortunately, the features on this guy were so far removed from what shooters actually wanted, that it seemed to have been designed on a napkin by the executive committee, 4 martinis into a 6 martini lunch. Plastic sights, a safety that operated exactly opposite from the HP and 1911, and magazines that were a proprietary design instead of being compatible with the millions of BHP magazines that were soon to be highly valued during the upcoming Clinton Assault Weapon Ban. It was truly a shame because the BDM felt even better in the hand than the HP did, and could have been the new standard in wondernines. Family photo, but the FEG at the bottom has had a facelift in the meantime. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/3hps.jpg I have a BDM it has no plastic sights not sure if they put any later but mine has metal sights and had a metal trigger when I bought it I sent it to Browning for re bluing and they changed the trigger without telling me to some type of none metal one, this pistol is very accurate and consistent in my hand and very safe , you can engage the safety rack the slide chamber a round and decock in one stroke or leave the safety off then it's ready to fire in single action. I haven't shot it in a while you made me want to take it out I just cleaned it because of you thanks. |
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I have a BDM it has no plastic sights not sure if they put any later but mine has metal sights and had a metal trigger when I bought it I sent it to Browning for re bluing and they changed the trigger without telling me to some type of none metal one, this pistol is very accurate and consistent in my hand and very safe , you can engage the safety rack the slide chamber a round and decock in one stroke or leave the safety off then it's ready to fire in single action. I haven't shot it in a while you made me want to take it out I just cleaned it because of you thanks. Heh, well, I'm glad something good came of it. I've always liked the look and feel of the BDM. Its proportions and design are very appealing. About 10 years ago, I owned one for about a day and a half. A friend of mine had to have it, and I sold it to him before I even got a chance to shoot it. I don't know what he eventually did with it, but I know he no longer has it. I've about decided I'll pick up another one if I come across one cheap enough. They seem to be going for $500 or thereabouts when I see them. 
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Mag disconnect: Remove. Pity this disqualifies it from some shooting sports, but not an issue for most of us.
Mag capacity: Cheap and common Mec Gar's are 15 rounds. If you think you need more go to the 20 rd. Grip treatments: Something wrong with stippling? If checkering is required get a practical model that had serial number on frame. One grip screw: I have OEM grips, VZ's, Nill's, and some unknown make Derlin's. None rotate. Small magwell: Might be a competition issue. Not a combat pistol issue. Given the history of this pistol, it's hard to call it a safe queen. Mine gets carried in the woods several times a week when the weather is good. It also works well as an IWB CCW. It is compact, steel, accurate, durable, and reliable. It points better for most than any alternative. They are well made for the price and a good platform for further customization. The only thing you really need to do is take out the magazine disconnect but having other things done is nice. 
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They are well made for the price I have to take issue here. Have you priced one lately? For the price Browning asks they are a horrible value for dollar spent. They have become high dollar safe queens for collectors, nothing more. I disagree. Compare it to a comparable 1911. I'm about to send off one to Novak for night sights, then carry the shit out of it. It's half the size of my 226. |
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and CDNN is selling them NIB (Mk III) for $699...gethuone! Bill Again, the HP is a great pistol, but is this a deal? You could make a long list of pistols that are much cheaper and every bit as good, glock, smith, HK, CZ, etc. I remember when the milsurp HP were about $300, at that price they were a steal. For $700? Not so much. |
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Current prices from Budsgunshop:
Sig 226: $750 Beretta M92: $536 Browning HP MkIII: $822 ($756 w/camo) CZ75: $531 Glock 17: $494 H&K 2000: $728 S&W M&P: $508 Springfield XDM: $574 For me, the only bargain on this list is the CZ75 and maybe the M92 if it fits your hand. Everything else is either priced like a euro 9mm (whether it's made there or not) or like a plastic gun. This doesn't consider 9mm 1911 models which tend to be expensive or that you can get the BHP cheaper. For the workmanship and materials, I don't think BHP prices are out of line with the marketplace. |
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For the workmanship and materials, I don't think BHP prices are out of line with the marketplace. The fact that the HP is the most expensive gun on the list while simultaneously being the last one I would pick for serious purposes illustrates the point. I appreciate the workmanship and quality of the gun, but as a combat handgun it has been superceded by more modern designs. |
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I appreciate the workmanship and quality of the gun, but as a combat handgun it has been superceded by more modern designs. This. There is no reason for the insane asking price for the Browning other than FNH taking advantage of the iconic status of J.M. Browning in the U.S. market. If the HP was designed by anyone else, and made by anyone else, yet was totally identical in every way, none of you would ever pay more than $550 for one. P.T. Barnum was right. |
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If the fact that Browning designed it made them expensive and popular, we would see more Remington Model 11's, Winchester 97's, and Colt Model 1908's on gun shop shelves. Nobody around here buys a gun just because JMB designed it. We study handguns to death. Most of us have shot everything out there. We know what we want and why we want it.
If you would prefer an HK2000 or SIG 226 for whatever purpose, more power to you. Maybe you can save $50. If you like plastic guns, great. They are cheap and work fine. If you want to carry a $3000 1911, hope you enjoy it. Nice 1911's are a true joy. For me, I like the way a High Power fits my hand, is easy to carry all day, handles better than anything out there, has plenty of aftermarket support, has been totally reliable, has compact dimensions, and gives me pride of ownership to boot. It is hard to get all of these features in one place with quality materials and workmanship. And while were at it, count the pistols in one of the many 'favorite pistol' threads around here. Lots of BHP adherents. Finally, every top 5 of the best 9mm's seems to always include a BHP. Usually near the top. Pick what you want. Lots of our informed colleagues pick HP's. |
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I must say, that my Hard Chrome HP with signature Pacmyer grips is, BY FAR, my most favorite and accurate semi-auto pistol!
In my eyes, I cannot see how anyone can complain about this gun! When I was younger and could not afford a HP, 30 yrs or so ago, it was my Grail gun. Now, through the years, I've owned three different ones as well as a couple clones. If I had to sell all my guns, for any reason, and I could only keep one....It would be my HP. |
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Look, there is nothing really wrong with the pistol itself. I was a bit over the top in my above posts, I have always liked the way the look and feel.
It's just the insane pricing that I take issue with. It's the best $560 handgun you can buy for $800. If I found a good used one at a realistic price I'd probably pick one up. But if the used price is the same as a new CZ 75, it isn't going to happen. They are way overpriced, just like 1911s are. You diehard fan boys can try to justify it to yourselves if you like, but I'm not buying it. |
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Look, there is nothing really wrong with the pistol itself. I was a bit over the top in my above posts, I have always liked the way the look and feel. It's just the insane pricing that I take issue with. From a materials and craftsmanship standpoint, I don't think it's overpriced. They are charging what it actually costs to fully machine the frame out of steel and have someone hand fit a series of parts. Much like the 1911. I do feel it's overpriced from the standpoint of what you get for the money. If you want a handheld 9mm bullet hose that will function with reasonable accuracy and reliability, clearly there are more value-oriented choices available today. In the end, (much like the 1911), most people who buy them do so because they want a HP and appreciate the history and craftsmanship, even if the platform is no longer the most effective for combat. |
For a guy with 'The power of Browning compels you' in his avatar, you might want to rethink that last post. 
That being said, I agree that there are more durable and more modern designs out there that probably make a better 'combat' handgun. The issue is, almost no one on I know needs a 'combat' handgun. The military needs one, but thats due more to environmental issues having an effect on reliability than it is to round count between rebuilds. The only civilian shooters I know, (and I know some personally), who actually wear out their pistols are serious BE or action shooters, and most of them shoot 1911's. Arguing that the BHP isn't as good as a Glock or Sig is like arguing that a 328i isn't as good as as Accord. The Honda is cheaper, needs less maintenance, maintenance costs less when needed, and does the exact same job. The BHP was designed at a time when nothing like it existed, and pretty much every engineering solution had to be invented because there was very little out there to copy from. The BHP trigger linkage is a good example of this. Modern handgun design is done on a computer. While it results in a finished product for much less money than the old way, it lacks something in the final result. The BHP has that certain "je ne se qua" that more modern designs lack. This is why people buy Pythons over Rugers, and BMW\Audi over Ford\Chevy. Quoted:
The fact that the HP is the most expensive gun on the list while simultaneously being the last one I would pick for serious purposes illustrates the point. I appreciate the workmanship and quality of the gun, but as a combat handgun it has been superceded by more modern designs. |
for that one! 
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makes me glad I picked up the BDM for $300 and change a few years back.
I remember when the first came out and I read about them in the catalog and I was like WTF is revolver mode, what a dumb idea. I15-20 years later I picked up the pistol and really like it and I don't care which mode it's in, typical double/single action, or double only aka revolver mode. I have two minor gripes, the safety moves backwards from most others and the front sight has optically annoying shoulders, almost like an olympic medal podium. I bought an IWB Kramer holster for it. It's the king of full sized carry pistols. I never owned a high power but would if I got one cheap enough. I was momentarily tempted to buy a german police surplus high power at under $400. |
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Shoulda bought a CZ-75 I would prefer the CZ over the HP as well, on mag capacity alone. http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:gBqs63adModp6M:http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/Rodzilla109/not-sure-if-serious.jpg&t=1 You all keep bashing the BHP, might drive prices back down. Meanwhile... http://www.shepsworld.com/pistols/hipowers.jpg Lower right hand pistol. Ex Israeli trainer HP. I got one like that. Cool! |
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Current list prices, as shown on each manufacturer's US website.
Browning Hi Power Mark III $999 CZ 75B Single Action $609 CZ 75B DA/SA $597 Of course we all know no one pays full list. But even at that there is no way that FN can justify that price. All the talk of "premium materials" and "hand fitting" is just so much BS. If they are so expensively hand fitted, why does the standard Hi Power trigger suck so much? Sorry, but all I can say to FNH is, EPIC MARKETING FAIL. |
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I know I love my HP. I have not seen one that was combat accurate or better. The mag safety is the only issue I have had with HPs. It is an easy fix as well. I have a practical that I have had for some time. Accurate, light, something it has all over a CZ. But to be honest, I have seen a number of CZ's that had a terrible trigger. That is why there are posts all over the interweb on how to do a trigger job on CZ's.
About the cost. Sorry part of it is the Euro and labor costs in that part of the EU. The Czech Rep. is not known for high paying jobs. |
I'm happy so far with my 1992 FN Mk II. Its got some holster wear, but everything else seems cherry. $400 delivered. I'm going to shoot the crap out of it, put my midway C&S parts in, then send it out for night sights and a refinish. There may be some checkering in there if I get the fortitude to mount it in my vice and order a jig and files.
BTW: Anybody know how to pop out the lanyard so I can install my VZ grips? 
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| I have this former Euro police FN hi-power Mark II with the lanyard. Well, with the hole for the lanyard, mine was missing. Pretty sure you can see in the pics that it's just a threaded hole, but I'll double-check for you when I get home. The better pics of the lanyard hole are in the update most of the way down the first page. |
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I have this former Euro police FN hi-power Mark II with the lanyard. Well, with the hole for the lanyard, mine was missing. Pretty sure you can see in the pics that it's just a threaded hole, but I'll double-check for you when I get home. The better pics of the lanyard hole are in the update most of the way down the first page. I appreciate you checking. I thought I read somewhere that FN peened theirs in, so I half assedly tried to drift it out with an allen wrench and hammer last night, to no avail...
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I'm one of the unabashed HP fans,
My MKIII is my favorite pistol. If I had to give all the rest up, I would be well armed with the HP. I'm not a Glock fanboy, I won't try to say your gun choice is somehow less than mine. When I picked up my first HP in 1981, the clouds parted and a celestial chior began singing, and I bought it. Nothing fits my hand like the HP, nothing makes me quite as happy. I have used and carried dozens of different guns over the years, but I have returned to the Hi-Power, and I am done looking for the perfect cary gun. Accurate, dead nuts reliable, feels like it was made for MY hand. (has a litle class to boot) I have decided to leave the magazine safety alone, it is the only feature that dosen't please me, but I can adapt to it. If you don't get it, I can't make you. |