Posted: 1/9/2011 7:09:35 PM EDT
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I decided to give my MkI Inglis a spring overhaul, and installed the Wolf kit... well, most of it as it has an internal extractor and I wasn't about to mess with the mag disconnect.
So, the recoil spring is significantly stiffer than the orig. unknown weight/rd. count one, as was the hammer spring. Additional evidence was from the triggerpull, which feels a little more crisp, but very gritty. At any rate, the recoil feels more pronounced, as if I drastically lightened spring weights, which I know is false. Ammo used is the usual WWB. Any chance something is in play here, or could it be the slide now comes forward more violently under the new spring(s) wt. fooling the brain? |
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Dang, I didn't know you were into HiPowers.
So, it has more recoil now after replacing your recoil spring. Yes, that makes complete sense. In a standard 1911, a 16 lb recoil spring will have less felt recoil than an 18.5. Or at least that's how I understand it. So, you worn spring had a lower poundage than your new one. Isn't that what competition shooters do? Go as low as they can, for less recoil, without battering their frames too bad and still function properly? The trigger is the HiPowers achilles heal. As far as I'm concerned. It just sucks. However. If you get rid of your mag disconnect, it will help a good deal. Then, I cut the spring on the little sear lever in the slide. Then, I guess the other thing you can do is drop the weight to 26# instead of 32# on the mainspring. I haven't done that one yet. It looks like a hairy job, and you actually need a certain tool that I don't have. Maybe someday I'll try it though. You got any pics? I think those old inglis are cool!! I forget, does that mean it was a military pistol? Canadian Army or something? Does yours have the lanyard loop on the side? I love that. |
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I beg to differ on the issue of felt recoil vs. recoil spring strength. I have advanced arthritis in my hands and use stronger recoil springs to reduce felt recoil, not to increase it. I have done this in my BHP, all of my clones, a Bersa Thunder 9, a CZ 85B, and a S&W M5906. In every case the stronger spring reduced felt recoil. The slide definitely goes forward faster with stiffer springs, but this is not the source of recoil of the type and intensity you describe, at least not in my experience.
The purpose of higher poundage recoil springs such as the Wolff 18.5 pound BHP spring in the Hi Power is to slow the slide down on the rearward phase of its travel and prevent damage to the gun caused by high slide velocities when using high pressure ammunition. So I don't know what's going on with your Hi Power, but I wouldn't shoot it any more until you can figure out why a stronger spring has increased its recoil. You might start by making sure the spring's manufacturer sent you the correct recoil spring. Also, when using a stronger recoil spring your fired cases will not usually be tossed as far by the ejector, although this can vary with ammo and individual guns. The only other spring issue I can think of to check is the poundage of the hammer spring. Changing the weight of hammer springs can affect slide velocities, but I'm not familiar with any cases in which it produced an increase or decrease in felt recoil. It's usually a lot more subtle than that. But the condition you describe really worries me as far as firing the gun any more until you get it figured out and corrected. Best wishes. MM |
If one is going to dabble in staggered 9mm, it should be a solid metal wartime pistol that JMB had a hand in. 
Actually, I didn't have much choice in the matter with how little the pistol was going for. I agree the triggers are terrible on these things (particularly when accustomed to a good 1911 trigger), as is the near-unusable thumb safety. Before, the trigger was incredibly mushy like HPs are known for. The trigger now "seems" to break a little more crisply but there is now a real gritty feeling somewhere betweeen takeup and the break. I am aware of the mag disconnect improvement, but I'm more inclined to leave this pistol stock, rather than keep track of one more disassembled, stored part. I suppose that's what is going on with the recoil, though the thought crossed my mind as I shot, but that was toward the end of the session. Maybe it was the reset that was tricking the brain after all. I actually did the hammer spring myself with WECSOG tools. I took the hammer/hammer strut assembly and put the flat end in a padded vice, so that it was upside down and the hammer spring cap faced me. Then I took a pair of vice grips and clamped it on to the end of the spring. Then I shoved the spring downwards toward the padded vice until I had enough to screw the cap down and push the retaining pin off. Once the pin was off I unscrewed the cap (while the spring was still compressed by the vice grips) then removed the cap and spring. Then I replaced spring and reassembled using the reverse instructions. May have to do it again in the future. The Inglis HPs were the sidearm of the Canadian Forces in WWII but served Britain and China as well, IIRC. The distinguishing feature between these and other Mk Is is the use of an internal extractor, like 1911s use. Inglis HPs came with either fixed ot tangent sights and the backstrap was either plain or milled for the buttstock which was hollowed out and acted as a case for the pistol. Mine is the less exotic but more practical "fixed sight, smooth backstrap" configuration. 
Quoted:
The only other spring issue I can think of to check is the poundage of the hammer spring. Changing the weight of hammer springs can affect slide velocities, but I'm not familiar with any cases in which it produced an increase or decrease in felt recoil. It's usually a lot more subtle than that. But the condition you describe really worries me as far as firing the gun any more until you get it figured out and corrected. Best wishes. MM I am absolutely certain that the recoil spring is heavier in weight than the original. The original was a minor squirm and it sat in place for reassembly. The replacement is a wrestling match to seat with the spring guide. After replacing the hammer spring, I would contend the same to be true with the heavier weight of the new hammer spring. Your concerns would raise a little more doubt if this was not a Wolff BHP spring kit, meaning the hammer & recoil springs were selected by them together, so I don't think the combo of the two should be problematic, unlike me cherrypicking recoil springs and hammer springs arbitrarily. The recoil spring seems to be the right part with respect to circumference and overall appearance (clears the recoil spring channel and fits perfectly on the guide) the only difference I see is that the spring has an open "corkscrew" end like 1911s and the original was closed on both ends. |
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The way I understand it is: if the spring tension is higher, when the slide is going rearward, there will be more pressure or weight, or torsion, etc on your hands, because the weight of the spring is higher. So there may be more "felt" recoil. For me, when I put an 18.5 in my 1911, I think it "felt" stiffer to shoot. But alas, I'm no expert and I've never noticed it when I replaced a factory weight spring in other pistols. I do agree that the purpose of a higher weight spring is to batter the pistol less. But I think there would be a point of diminishing returns, due to the force slamming it forward, like mentioned.
In any case, I hope he figures it out too! |
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Yes, there is quite bit of evidence that there is a point of diminishing returns because of the increased forward velocities. Some contend that this is a problem with some CZ pistols even, and others contend it creates a bit of "bounceback". You make a good point.
My biggest concern is with his description of the level of recoil increase experienced in this case. "as if I drastically lightened spring weights." I just can't see where increasing spring weight would produce the level of recoil increase he's experiencing. Something isn't right. MM |
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Personally I really don't like the wolf recoil spring, over-rated and a pain in the ass. I try to use as many browning stock parts as possible. Seeing that this a MK-I there won't be a little spring under the sear as that is a later modification added to MK-III's and deals with their firing pin safety. Also since your gun is a MK-I, it should already have the 26lb main spring as I recall that being the stock part, the 32lb one came at a later date unless someone else changed it. If you actually removed your hammer did you clean the crud out of the grooves in the hammer, it can be a source of grittyness too. But likely most of the felt grit is coming from the mag disconnect, personally I'd ditch it. eta ditch the mag disconnect....not the Hi Power.
If you have taken the thing apart as far as you had, you are capable of complete disassembly. |
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On the subject of grittiness in the trigger pull, I have read that another source of grittiness in the BHP trigger can come from where the sear spring contacts the sear. The recommendation I read was to sand both surfaces smooth and apply a coat of grease before reassembly.
MM |
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Nice pistol btw!!!
Did wolffe label what pound the recoil spring and mainspring weight is? If the one gentleman is right and the MkI's only had a 26#er and it was worn, and the recoil spring was worn, then, you replaced it with a 32# and a new recoil, and possibly a heavier recoil spring than standard, then yeah, I think your felt recoil will go up enough to notice it quite a bit. Are you saying you fired it with the springs it came with in it? And like you said, the newer spring was harder to get in. I suppose it's also possible someone had the wrong recoil spring in it to begin with. Do you find the recoil stiff? I have never thought my HiPower to be overly stiff. I'd say it's not anywhere near as stiff as a full size 1911 in .45, but somewhat more than an M9. Shooting standard pressure ammo. Yes, the reset can really mess with your head. Plus, my trigger pull changes from one shot to another. Hehehhehehehe. Despite all of that, for some reason I just really take to my HiPower. I've always liked 9mm. And to me, this is the epitomy of what a 9mm should look and feel like. But yes, that trigger, at least mine, has quite a personality. |
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Quoted:
Nice pistol btw!!! Did wolffe label what pound the recoil spring and mainspring weight is? The real issue with the Wolf springs are their length, not really so much their poundage. While I never actually measured the difference between a stock spring and a Wolf aftermarket, it's got to be close to 2 inches more in length. And yes I know the difference about coil size/thickness and coil spacing yada yada. You stuff a Wolf into your slide and the spring wants to bow out of place almost tweeking the spring. IMHO the stock spring is a better solution to a non-existent problem. ymmv |