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Posted: 5/23/2003 9:43:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2003 9:55:10 PM EDT by 610]
How do they make it? How can you tell if you have one? Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 4:58:27 AM EDT
Are you sure you mean two piece barrel and not two piece guide rod?
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 2:01:06 AM EDT
Springfield uses a two piece barrel in their mil-spec 1911's.

There is a very slight, hard to see, seam.

The seam is where the locking lugs (on the barrel hood) meets the chamber.

Here is a picture of my mil-spec and its old two piece barrel:


If I get a chance i'll post a close up picture of the barrel and try to point out where it is joined.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:10:09 PM EDT
2 piece barrels are also a whole lot less accurate. Brownells sells SA factory barrels for around $60 or so. Almost all of their good barrels are at least $125 & up.

I was at a range once where a guy had just bought a NIB SA 1911A1 S/S Govt model. He was getting so-so groups. I let him try both my H&K USP & my SA 1911A1 with a Wilson barrel. I thought he was going to cry after he compared all the groups. I think he spent close to like $800 on his S/S SA & I have a whole lot less invested in my mil-spec SA.

AFAIK, SA puts 2 piece barrels in all of their guns, I've never read of anything different **from** Springfield.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:17:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
2 piece barrels are also a whole lot less accurate. Brownells sells SA factory barrels for around $60 or so. Almost all of their good barrels are at least $125 & up.

I was at a range once where a guy had just bought a NIB SA 1911A1 S/S Govt model. He was getting so-so groups. I let him try both my H&K USP & my SA 1911A1 with a Wilson barrel. I thought he was going to cry after he compared all the groups. I think he spent close to like $800 on his S/S SA & I have a whole lot less invested in my mil-spec SA.

AFAIK, SA puts 2 piece barrels in all of their guns, I've never read of anything different **from** Springfield.



I was considering a mil-spec 1911-A1 from SA. Are the two-piece barrels really THAT bad? I had my heart set on one of those guns.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 11:02:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Demordrah:
I was considering a mil-spec 1911-A1 from SA. Are the two-piece barrels really THAT bad? I had my heart set on one of those guns.



The 2 piece barrels aren't that bad but they are NOT match barrels. There are no reliability or other problems its just that they are not as accurate but not horrible.

From what i've seen they are only using the two piece barrel in the mil-specs. I believe the loaded models come with a match barrel, see the following link:
springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-feat.shtml#0

To answer a previous question, here is what a two piece barrel looks like:


Notice the fine line between the arrows, this is where the two halves are joined together.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 4:23:35 AM EDT
I must have gotten lucky.
My 2 piece barrel is very accurate...I have tried 3 other barrels, an unknown, a Wilson and the compensated Centaur and the 2 piece held it's own after over 10 years of relatively light use.
The only concern I have/had was it coming apart, which it hasn't.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 8:46:30 PM EDT
My 2 piece SA barrel works just too .

If you built to equal match grade 45's and the only diff was the SA 2 piece barrel in one and a standard barrel in the other you might possibly see a diff but it won't be much ..
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 9:45:30 PM EDT
Thanks for your help MrHemi. I just checked and dont see the seam. My barrel is an older one and has "Springfield Armory 45 Auto" on it. The Springfield logo is also on the rear part of the slide as opposed to the front like the newer. I bought this pistol used and it has what looks like the Robar "Combat Master" package minus the front strap stippling. The box indicates it was a standard model to start with. By the way, I have had no problems with barrel I was just curious because I had heard the term 2 piece before. Reliability is my concern for this pistol, accuracy within reason. Thanks. 610
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:24:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tangeant:
If you built to equal match grade 45's and the only diff was the SA 2 piece barrel in one and a standard barrel in the other you might possibly see a diff but it won't be much ..




I would beg to differ, sir. I saw my personal groups drop in half or better after I had my 2 piece changed out to a Wilson.

I've seen too many 2 piece barrels at the range to feel that they're anything more than average, at best.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:27:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 610:
Reliability is my concern for this pistol, accuracy within reason. Thanks. 610




I had no problems at all with the feeding on my original 2 piece. It was the accuracy that irritated me. Now my mil-surp model shoots as good as a Gold Cup.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 5:44:29 AM EDT
All of my SA's with two piece barrels have made one ragged hole when I did my part. Not sure how much more accuracy one could need or actually use, especially on a defensive/combat/fighting gun. I have yet to witness the inaccuracy of the two piece SA barrel that supposedly is so prevelant.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:24:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
All of my SA's with two piece barrels have made one ragged hole when I did my part. Not sure how much more accuracy one could need or actually use, especially on a defensive/combat/fighting gun.
Trust me when I say that yours is the exception to the rule.

I have yet to witness the inaccuracy of the two piece SA barrel that supposedly is so prevelant.
There's a bit of difference between less than satisfactory accuracy & inaccuracy. My, & others, 2 piece barrels fell/fall into the "less than" catagory.



Link Posted: 5/28/2003 4:51:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
All of my SA's with two piece barrels have made one ragged hole when I did my part. Not sure how much more accuracy one could need or actually use, especially on a defensive/combat/fighting gun.
Trust me when I say that yours is the exception to the rule.

I have yet to witness the inaccuracy of the two piece SA barrel that supposedly is so prevelant.
There's a bit of difference between less than satisfactory accuracy & inaccuracy. My, & others, 2 piece barrels fell/fall into the "less than" catagory.






Just FYI, I bought 5 at one time last year. Loaded Operator, Park Loaded, OD Loaded, and a Mil spec Micro compact. Two friends have 3 between them. Thats 8 all bought around the same time and they have all been not only flawless, but all superbly accurate. Maybe we have all just been lucky, but I just havent seen any problems with SA barrels, at the range or otherwise.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 4:53:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By misterhemi:
From what i've seen they are only using the two piece barrel in the mil-specs. I believe the loaded models come with a match barrel, see the following link:
springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-feat.shtml#0



Every loaded I have owned (4), and saw, had a two piece, with the exception of my Loaded Operator.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 10:24:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By misterhemi:
From what i've seen they are only using the two piece barrel in the mil-specs. I believe the loaded models come with a match barrel, see the following link:
springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-feat.shtml#0



Every loaded I have owned (4), and saw, had a two piece, with the exception of my Loaded Operator.



I think it was around late 2001 or sometime in 2002 that they made this change, see the above link.

Out of curiosity, around what time did you buy the ones that you have?
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:59:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By misterhemi:

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By misterhemi:
From what i've seen they are only using the two piece barrel in the mil-specs. I believe the loaded models come with a match barrel, see the following link:
springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-feat.shtml#0



Every loaded I have owned (4), and saw, had a two piece, with the exception of my Loaded Operator.



I think it was around late 2001 or sometime in 2002 that they made this change, see the above link.

Out of curiosity, around what time did you buy the ones that you have?



Late last summer/early fall (2002). Maybe they did make the change and I just got some of the last ones. All I know is, that mine were 2 piece, and they were great, as were my friends.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 6:35:17 PM EDT
Everyone notice Browning hi power barrels? They've been 2 piece for 40 + yrs. Accuracy comes relies more on lock up on the bottom lugs, hood, and top lugs. Sure match barrels will be more accurate because they are made to titghter tolerances. If you want match grade accuracy then buy a match grade build up. All Springfields I have owned and have worked on have all been shooters. Don't fret about it... Unless of course you want to.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:57:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RMPSTRAT:
Everyone notice Browning hi power barrels? They've been 2 piece for 40 + yrs. Accuracy comes relies more on lock up on the bottom lugs, hood, and top lugs.




Apparently you've missed Brownells selling SA factory barrels for $60 or so. All their good barrels go for $125 & up. You get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 9:19:41 PM EDT
No it's apparent you didn't understand any of what I said about lug engagement and such. Apparently you know more and have worked more 1911s than I have and more than the gunsmith I work for... Granted he's only been doing this for 20+ yrs. What shop do you work for?
I guess in the early days Jim Clark must have made some really inaccurate 1911s when he sleeved barrels. Same with Irv Stone with the early days of Barsto barrels

It must be me because there's too many of them.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:54:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 10:55:32 PM EDT by misterhemi]

Originally Posted By RMPSTRAT:
Everyone notice Browning hi power barrels? They've been 2 piece for 40 + yrs. Accuracy comes relies more on lock up on the bottom lugs, hood, and top lugs. Sure match barrels will be more accurate because they are made to titghter tolerances. If you want match grade accuracy then buy a match grade build up. All Springfields I have owned and have worked on have all been shooters. Don't fret about it... Unless of course you want to.



I think there is a bit of misunderstanding between you and BobCole.

I agree with both of you but I don't know (only the two of you know) by what criteria you are judging accuracy. More specifically, what size groups and at what distance.

I had no problems with my two piece barrel and it shot what I considered to be pretty good groups.

Now, having said that I wanted to see how much more accuracy I can get with a match barrel so I had the BarSto installed by my gunsmith Alan Tanaka (shameless plug ).

I think both of you are correct but are judging by different criteria.

Both manufacturing tolerances AND fit make a difference. Think about how poorly a "Match" barrel would shoot if it were poorly fitted. It would probably be worse than the factory two piece barrel, right?
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 2:55:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 3:06:07 AM EDT by desertmoon]
Oddly enough, the one issue I NEVER had with my OD loaded was accuracy. My record group with that pistol has been 153 rounds into a single hole a bit smaller than my fist at 10 yards (offhand). Since it is a defense gun I find that totally acceptable. I think I got lucky on that one.

The two piece barrels are most likely made by one of two processes. Friction welding or resistance welding. The friction welding process would be done by machining the barrel portion seperate from the chamber portion on different tooling setups...they are then joined by friction welding the two components together. The pieces are set into special mandrels on a friction welding machine then spun in opposite directions. When they reach a designated speed they are rammed together with GREAT force. This welds the two components together..they are then finish machined, chambered and rifled ( I am pretty sure that would occur at the end ). I friction weld where I work and can attest that friction welds are ungodly strong!!! We use the process to assemble containment canisters for gasses under VERY high pressure and these welds really hold.

I sort of wonder if they arent fully machine components that are resistance welded together, though. Resistance welding consists of pressing two pieces together under high pressure then passing an electric current through them. Where the current jumps the seam of the two parts you have a great amount of resistance, essentially the heat from that resistance welds the two parts together. Another effective weld when done properly. The nice thing is that there is little if any resultant damage or detempering in the area surrounding the weld. It is a fast and clean process.

I am gonna go with the resistance welding theory.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:45:28 AM EDT
Hemi,

You are correct about the fitting. A match barrel won't do you any good if not fitted properly. You need that consistent lockup. The old Group Gripper systems used to titghten up any groups because that ledged link and tab provided upward pressure and improved lockup.
The accuracy that's acceptable (at least in my mind) for a standard 1911 would be about 3.5 to 4.0 inches or so @25 yds, I mean we are talking about a combat weapon or duty weapon where the average distance in a shooting such as that is 21 feet. If you want "match grade accuracy" well then let's get that down to 2.5 or less @25yds... But that's better than most people can shoot and there's going to be a whole lot of other work involved besides just barrel. Except for one occasion, I have yet to see a standard Springfield with a 2 piece barrel fail to keep them in the black. I've seen many people shooting falling plate matches with box stock Springfields who are very competitive.
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