Posted: 3/8/2004 12:19:35 PM EDT
| Have a S&W model 625, it's a 5" barrel bought new in May of 1989. The gun probably has 20K rounds through it over the past 15yrs. The gun has had an action job by a local "Bubba" smith named Greg Ferris, who's work I'm in no way pleased with, but it's usable. I've continued to use it anyway for several years now. It always had a problem with the ejector rod backing out, but I kind of solved that with some blue locktite. Recently, I've been having problems with rounds not fully seating in the chambers, after the gun is fowled. One moon clip is enough to gum it up, so the rounds won't seat properly without me firmly pushing on the head of each cartrige, sometimes the gun binds making DA fire almost impossible, I have to mannually force the hammer back in competition and fire SA. Then I cannot eject the fired moon clip with reasonable pressure from the heal of my hand, I have to push the ejector rod against a baracade or board or somthing. I suspected my handloads at first, though they have not changed. They measure 0.470 -0.471 the entire lenghth of the case, so they should not even be tight in the chambers. My load is not hot, I'm using 5.0gr of Bullseye behind a 200gr lead SWC. Bullseye if fairly dirty, so I'm going to load up two new test batches using Unique and Tightgroup, and see if perhapse that helps solve the problem. Any other suggestions I might try? |
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First, I would suggest working without the moon clips until you solve the problem. Do a really good cleaning job on the chambers. Also, check under the star to see if their is buildup there. If the rounds aren't seating easily then either the chambers are fouled or at worst, out of rouond. try marking the chambers with a magic marker and see if it is certain chambers that are giving you the problem. But in general, as soon as you find that it is hard to insert a round, it's time to stop and find out what is happening. |
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With revolvers, especially, you may find that such issues will be a combination of small things that add up to eventually create a problem...no, not always, but pretty often. I would second sig_230's recommendation to work without the clips at first. I would try some new FMJ ball and see what happens with factory ammo...probably it will do the same thing(s) but you may find it takes longer for the problem to appear. With your reloads, be certain you are seating primers deeply enough that they don't protrude above the base of the cartridge. If you have not already done so, give the chambers a very good scrubbing to be sure there is no lead build-up at the "shelf" inside. I have seen an entire order of S&W M65's (over 100 guns) that had to be sent back to the factory to have a couple of thousanths more taken off of the inside face of the cylinders...where the extractor star rides...because they would bind hard after only a couple of cylinder-fulls were fired, so it is possible that this has little to do with your loads or Bubba's "gunsmithing". You should also check and be certain that BOTH locator pins are in place for the extractor star ...push it up and look at the face of the cylinder underneath...if one or both are missing, that alone could be a large part of the problem. (The very latest S&Ws have done away with these, but yours should have them.) If the gun runs fine with ball, try the reloads, if still OK, try it with ball and clips...some cheap clips will bend if you just look at them hard! Etc, etc, etc. Remember, trouble shooting is a process of elimination, so to isolate the problem...if it IS only a single cause...you must change only one variable at a time. Good luck. |
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Tried two new loads today, had the same problems with each, both with and without moonclips, but think I might have found the problem. I'm shooting lead semi-wadcutters with a sharp shoulder. Since the cartrige is rimless, it spaces on the shoulder, even though the overall length is within specifications, it may be spacing on the shoulder of the lead, instead of the edge of the case mouth. I'm loading up a new batch of ammo tonight, with the shoulder of the lead seated flush with the case mouth. Yes, it's the same Greg Ferris who lost his shop after the shooting. Allegedly he shot one of these teen-aged delinquints in the back, outside the shop, as he was running away. It's a shame, but if true, it was a bad call on Greg's part. My falling out with the guy had occured a year earlier, when he split our club, pushing to restrict it's membership to what he considered "serious shooters". I had gone into his shop to renew me and my wifes club memberships. Greg refused to renew my wifes membership, because he didn't feel that she had competed in enough of the clubs matches the previous year, I however had competed in more matches, and was welcome to renew mine. When I decided that I would not renew my membership, if I could not renew my wifes also, he called me a "stupid f-ing pu**y whipped lard a**." and ordered me out of his shop. Though we still associate with some of the same people, we are no longer on speaking terms personally. |
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Boxlock; If you have 20,000 rounds of mostly lead bullet loads through the pistol, my bet is that the chambers need a GOOD and very thorough cleaning. Also, have you pulled the yoke and cylinder out and cleaned all the assembly thoroughly? To me it sounds like there must be some sort of headspace issue, and there are only so many things it can be. What is the barrel / cylinder gap? Have you measured it? Still, I think your statement that after a clip or two you have to force the rounds in, tells much of the story...the cylinder needs serious cleaning...maybe with some fine (#000) steel wool wrapped around a SS chamber brush. Lead build up will definitely cause this condition, and is not always obvious when looking. |
Been there, done that, it was my first instinct actually. I used a stainless steel brush in a cordless drill. I'm somewhat obsessive about cleaning. A by-product of eight years in the infantry. My last shooting session I tried a box of factory ammo, and had the same problems, the gun has also started having timing issues. I've decided to turn it over to a gunsmith.
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Oops! Well then that takes care of that! I would consider sending it all the way back to the factory...really good revolver guys are pretty hard to find these days. They will put it back in box-stock condition, however, so if you have any parts, etc. you want to keep, take them off / out before you send it. Charges are usually very reasonable as well. |
| It seems my gunsmith has determined that the bushing around the firing pin hole, for some reason has become recessed about 8/1000ths, and is no longer flush with the face of the frame. Thus it's not supporting the primers, allowing them to back out into the recess during firing, even with factory loads, leaving a ring around the outer edge of the primer. Since the primer is backing into the recess of the firing pin bushing, below the edge of the frame, the cylinder will not rotate freely, and sometimes will completely lock up after firing. He says that he can not repair this "in house" and has sent it back to Smith&Wesson for factory repair. He says it'll be another several weeks. |