[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Taurus KaBoom (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/28/2009 8:38:33 PM EDT
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I was at the range with a group of guys, and a fellow was shooting a Taurus Millenium .40 cal. This was about the third round in the magazine.
As you can see from the picture, the round blew out the bottom, and blew apart the magazine. The frame split, and a piece of shrapnel hit the shooter in the face (it stopped bleeding after about 10 minutes). This was factory Remington ammo. 
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I'm the "fellow" that was holding this thing went it blew.
I was firing fairly slow at a large metal target about 50 yards away. My first thought was a double charge handload since a lot of people had brought ammo and firing many different types of pistols and calibers that day but all ammo was factory. A very good reason to always wear eye protection! |
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Was that a reload? I've seen that of multiple 40 cal reloads in various pistols. Never had a pistol come apart, on me & have never even one other than pictures. But the one thing I practice is never shoot reloads in one of my firearms. I don't reload & have never wanted to. But if I ever wanted to? I would not shoot any reloads but mine. And it's not because I think no one is trust worthly. It's just like: as long as reloads have the slimist chance to create a failure of such, I'll pass. I also know it's possible for a factory load to do the same thing BUT the better odds are in favor with factory ammo. It's the lesser evil of the two. |
| Thats a reload. Remington factory ammo uses Remington components and their primers are copper colored not nickel . as far as handloads VS factory I will only shoot reloads. at this point 100,000 rounds of my own and not a problem, BUT earlier in my life I have blown up a Colt Anaconda 44 magnum using Remington Factory ammo, my father blew up a Remington 742 using Rem. ammo I had another Remington 7400 blow up with Federal factory ammo. Weird huh me and my dad have had 3 blow up using factory ammo. we did get the guns replaced after the 2nd Rem blew the Western region Rem. rep came to our house with 2 brand new rifles and deliverd them in person , this was after they had replaced the first one too. so they brought us 2 brand new VSSFs instead. thats what we wanted. This was in the 90s probably 93' before we had all the background checks and crap. |
| yup, sure looks like a reload to me..the only firearms i will use reloads in are my bolt actions and maybe a couple in my revolvers from my gunsmith as i trust him but i sure would never buy any reloads from a gunshow or gunshop or any person other then someone i trust and i wouldnt feed them through any semi auto let alone a poly frame |
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yup, sure looks like a reload to me.. O.K., one more time..... this was factory Remington ammo, right out of the box just opened that morning. I still have the box flap. There were several witnesses. Nobody there reloads .40. The shooter is a police officer. So, unless Remington sells reloads in their new ammo boxes, it was not a reload. Can I find a notary? A stack of Bibles? What will it take? Besides, I have no reason to lie about this–– it was just a poignant reminder to be safe.. |
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Thats a reload. Remington factory ammo uses Remington components and their primers are copper colored not nickel . as far as handloads VS factory I will only shoot reloads. at this point 100,000 rounds of my own and not a problem, BUT earlier in my life I have blown up a Colt Anaconda 44 magnum using Remington Factory ammo, my father blew up a Remington 742 using Rem. ammo I had another Remington 7400 blow up with Federal factory ammo. Weird huh me and my dad have had 3 blow up using factory ammo. we did get the guns replaced after the 2nd Rem blew the Western region Rem. rep came to our house with 2 brand new rifles and deliverd them in person , this was after they had replaced the first one too. so they brought us 2 brand new VSSFs instead. thats what we wanted. This was in the 90s probably 93' before we had all the background checks and crap. I just pulled out a box of Remington .45 Golden Saber, all factory ammo and they have silver primers, So I am going to assume that Remington does not use all gold primers |
| it doesnt look like it fired out of battery. there would likely be more buldging around the case head. the primer is flattened from high pressure. you probubly got a factory double charged load. the case heads in semi autos are not fully supported by the chamber walls so this can make them prone to this kind of failure with a bad round or if say you shoot a squib and then rack in a round behind it. if there had been a bullet in the barrel its probubly gone, but the barrel would likely have a bulge. not saying thats what happend, it is just one more way something like this could happen . |
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Looks like an over-charged bullet that blew the casing out in the area over the feed ramp/bottom of the case while sitting in the chamber. I would email/write Remington and inform them of what happened.
About 12 years ago I was shooting a Remington 742 Woodsmaster in .30-06 that blew a shell out the base/side. I was shooting right handed from right shoulder and when I fired I felt come crap hit me in the right cheek. I found the shell case and it had split from the primer pocket around the base of the case and part way up the side of the case. No it was not a reload. |
| It's a round setback, those were probably 180 grain rounds weren't they. We had a member on a local car forum blow up his Taurus .40 in the same way, the Kel Tec P-40 was known for this as well. It's the short stroke of these pistols and the speed of their actions, they're more prone to bullet setback that causes the kabooms. Also it doesn't seem to matter what caused the gun to pop the "bad reload" mantra is going to be sung first and foremost. |
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I had this exact same issue (without the shrapnel hitting me) with my PT111 millenium a couple months ago. Same area blown out on the case, no +P it was winchester white box 9mm from a store. This is actually the second time it's happened to me. It cracked the poly frame and wouldn't hold a magazine in place after this was done.
I sent it back the first time and they replaced the frame / grip. I'm expecting it back from Taurus tomorrow for the second time this happened, we'll see what they did to fix the problem then. EDIT: I got my PT111 back from Taurus on Saturday, no explination of any sort, they just replaced the grip and sent it back. This is at least the second time this has happened. If it blows up in my hand and does any real damage......i'm not gonna be happy.... |
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I had this exact same issue (without the shrapnel hitting me) with my PT111 millenium a couple months ago. Same area blown out on the case, no +P it was winchester white box 9mm from a store. This is actually the second time it's happened to me. It cracked the poly frame and wouldn't hold a magazine in place after this was done. I sent it back the first time and they replaced the frame / grip. I'm expecting it back from Taurus tomorrow for the second time this happened, we'll see what they did to fix the problem then. EDIT: I got my PT111 back from Taurus on Saturday, no explination of any sort, they just replaced the grip and sent it back. This is at least the second time this has happened. If it blows up in my hand and does any real damage......i'm not gonna be happy.... I would sell the pistol prior to my losing any fingers or parts of fingers. That's just me I guess. |
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It's a round setback, those were probably 180 grain rounds weren't they. We had a member on a local car forum blow up his Taurus .40 in the same way, the Kel Tec P-40 was known for this as well. It's the short stroke of these pistols and the speed of their actions, they're more prone to bullet setback that causes the kabooms. Also it doesn't seem to matter what caused the gun to pop the "bad reload" mantra is going to be sung first and foremost. DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have a winner!!!!! It was a set back. Google "case set back" and you will learn. A double charged .40 would have split the barrel. Also seems there is POOR case support in this gun (probably designed originally as a 9mm & simply "supersized" like the Glock 40s). Look again at the primer. Nice and rounded at the edges. Pressure never got to it. Case had let go by that point. Classic set-back. |
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Sorry to hear about this, and good to know the shooter's okay.
Here in WI, where we have to unload and reload our carry gun whenever entering/exiting a vehicle, I had a friend ask to look at my carry load (factory Hornady +P self defense ammo). He grabbed the one from the chamber and one from my spare mag, and the one from the spare was visibly longer. I brought out the calipers and found that 12 rounds out of the 25 I carry had been shortened by being fed into the chamber so many times. I had been cycling through which round went in the chamber, but only in my active mag, and the spare hadn't been touched. It's a very good thing he pointed it out to me before I had to discharge in a bad situation. I'm on the fence as to whether or not I should just toss them, or pull the bullets and reseat them. |
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Perfect description of "set back" Since defensive amm tends to be closest to the absolute pressure limit for the caliber, I would not think of re-seating unless you greatly reduce the powder charge AND apply a healthy crimp.
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Sorry to hear about this, and good to know the shooter's okay. Here in WI, where we have to unload and reload our carry gun whenever entering/exiting a vehicle, I had a friend ask to look at my carry load (factory Hornady +P self defense ammo). He grabbed the one from the chamber and one from my spare mag, and the one from the spare was visibly longer. I brought out the calipers and found that 12 rounds out of the 25 I carry had been shortened by being fed into the chamber so many times. I had been cycling through which round went in the chamber, but only in my active mag, and the spare hadn't been touched. It's a very good thing he pointed it out to me before I had to discharge in a bad situation. I'm on the fence as to whether or not I should just toss them, or pull the bullets and reseat them. |
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yup, sure looks like a reload to me.. O.K., one more time..... this was factory Remington ammo, right out of the box just opened that morning. I still have the box flap. There were several witnesses. Nobody there reloads .40. The shooter is a police officer. So, unless Remington sells reloads in their new ammo boxes, it was not a reload. Can I find a notary? A stack of Bibles? What will it take? Besides, I have no reason to lie about this–– it was just a poignant reminder to be safe.. Well I hope you get Remington to replace your gun. |
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Thats a reload. Remington factory ammo uses Remington components and their primers are copper colored not nickel . as far as handloads VS factory I will only shoot reloads. at this point 100,000 rounds of my own and not a problem, BUT earlier in my life I have blown up a Colt Anaconda 44 magnum using Remington Factory ammo, my father blew up a Remington 742 using Rem. ammo I had another Remington 7400 blow up with Federal factory ammo. Weird huh me and my dad have had 3 blow up using factory ammo. we did get the guns replaced after the 2nd Rem blew the Western region Rem. rep came to our house with 2 brand new rifles and deliverd them in person , this was after they had replaced the first one too. so they brought us 2 brand new VSSFs instead. thats what we wanted. This was in the 90s probably 93' before we had all the background checks and crap. I just pulled out a box of Remington .45 Golden Saber, all factory ammo and they have silver primers, So I am going to assume that Remington does not use all gold primers Same here, my 9mm Golden Sabers are the same way. If I recall, the only factory ammo that I've seen with gold primers was Fiocchi. Scratch that, WWB has gold primers too. Both Remington and CCI Blazer seem to use silver primers though. My Federal Gold Medal in 45 ACP uses copper colored primers. |
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I had this exact same issue (without the shrapnel hitting me) with my PT111 millenium a couple months ago. Same area blown out on the case, no +P it was winchester white box 9mm from a store. This is actually the second time it's happened to me. It cracked the poly frame and wouldn't hold a magazine in place after this was done. I sent it back the first time and they replaced the frame / grip. I'm expecting it back from Taurus tomorrow for the second time this happened, we'll see what they did to fix the problem then. EDIT: I got my PT111 back from Taurus on Saturday, no explination of any sort, they just replaced the grip and sent it back. This is at least the second time this has happened. If it blows up in my hand and does any real damage......i'm not gonna be happy.... I would sell the pistol prior to my losing any fingers or parts of fingers. That's just me I guess. As much as one would like to recoup a loss on a firearm why would you sell it to endanger someone else? |
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I had this exact same issue (without the shrapnel hitting me) with my PT111 millenium a couple months ago. Same area blown out on the case, no +P it was winchester white box 9mm from a store. This is actually the second time it's happened to me. It cracked the poly frame and wouldn't hold a magazine in place after this was done. I sent it back the first time and they replaced the frame / grip. I'm expecting it back from Taurus tomorrow for the second time this happened, we'll see what they did to fix the problem then. EDIT: I got my PT111 back from Taurus on Saturday, no explination of any sort, they just replaced the grip and sent it back. This is at least the second time this has happened. If it blows up in my hand and does any real damage......i'm not gonna be happy.... I would sell the pistol prior to my losing any fingers or parts of fingers. That's just me I guess. As much as one would like to recoup a loss on a firearm why would you sell it to endanger someone else? No doubt. Selling a gun that you KNOW is crap is just wrong. Unless you TELL the buyer that it is in fact crap, as a project gun or something. |
| I had the same thing happen to me 2 times. Remington replaced the first weapon then the next year the Rep came to my house with 2 brand new rifles and an apology and made it right with me. the thing was he broght 2 top of the line brand new senderos 1 in 308 and 1 in 223 I had spoklen with before asnd he knew i liked to varmint hunt ...the rifles in question were remington 7400s I was using remington factory ammo too. he said more than likely it was the ammo not the gun. the guns preform well nut a misharged round would cause a catostophic failure anyway they for sure made it right with me. I also had a colt Anaconda blow up using fedral ammo. Colt replaced the gun without hesitation and when fedral found out they had replaced it they sent me a certificate for 100 of free ammo. its all i how you word it I think. I praised the company adn told them I liked their stuff but had a problem and I never not had it rectified very quickly. I did catch a small pc of schrapnel in the face I was wearing saftey glasses but that second time when that happened the rem. rep was to my house in 72 hours . probably didnt want to get sued. |
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I had a case blow in a sig 9mm. All I got from rem was it had to be a problem with the gun, Sig said it was a problem with the ammo. the range shop said hey we see that all the time.
Glad your ok. Im glad mine was not a poly gun when it happened. You sir are quite lucky. |
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I just checked multiple boxes of UMC, .45, 9mm, .38 Special, and .380. All have silver primers. Looks factory to me. Ditto. Just looked at the big valu packs as well and they all use the nickel covered primers. Only Rem primer that does NOT have nickel coating these days is the 7 1/2 small rifle. AFAIK. |
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it doesnt look like it fired out of battery. there would likely be more buldging around the case head. the primer is flattened from high pressure. you probubly got a factory double charged load. the case heads in semi autos are not fully supported by the chamber walls so this can make them prone to this kind of failure with a bad round or if say you shoot a squib and then rack in a round behind it. if there had been a bullet in the barrel its probubly gone, but the barrel would likely have a bulge. not saying thats what happend, it is just one more way something like this could happen . That primer is not "flat". |
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I had this exact same issue (without the shrapnel hitting me) with my PT111 millenium a couple months ago. Same area blown out on the case, no +P it was winchester white box 9mm from a store. This is actually the second time it's happened to me. It cracked the poly frame and wouldn't hold a magazine in place after this was done. I sent it back the first time and they replaced the frame / grip. I'm expecting it back from Taurus tomorrow for the second time this happened, we'll see what they did to fix the problem then. EDIT: I got my PT111 back from Taurus on Saturday, no explination of any sort, they just replaced the grip and sent it back. This is at least the second time this has happened. If it blows up in my hand and does any real damage......i'm not gonna be happy.... I would sell the pistol prior to my losing any fingers or parts of fingers. That's just me I guess. As much as one would like to recoup a loss on a firearm why would you sell it to endanger someone else? No doubt. Selling a gun that you KNOW is crap is just wrong. Unless you TELL the buyer that it is in fact crap, as a project gun or something. The pistol the guy has a photo of is split up the magazine well. I would surely hope the buyer would be able to spot something was wrong with it. I was thinking as a parts gun gentlemen. |
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Thats a reload. Remington factory ammo uses Remington components and their primers are copper colored not nickel . as far as handloads VS factory I will only shoot reloads. at this point 100,000 rounds of my own and not a problem, BUT earlier in my life I have blown up a Colt Anaconda 44 magnum using Remington Factory ammo, my father blew up a Remington 742 using Rem. ammo I had another Remington 7400 blow up with Federal factory ammo. Weird huh me and my dad have had 3 blow up using factory ammo. we did get the guns replaced after the 2nd Rem blew the Western region Rem. rep came to our house with 2 brand new rifles and deliverd them in person , this was after they had replaced the first one too. so they brought us 2 brand new VSSFs instead. thats what we wanted. This was in the 90s probably 93' before we had all the background checks and crap. My factory rem ammo has silver primers. |