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AR15.COM
3/14/2009 4:06:47 PM EDT
I had some spare time so I decided to make and test some ballistics gel since I always wanted to for fun. I made some using a 10 to 1 mixture of water and gelatin by weight of course. After it was thoroughly mixed, it was placed in the refrigerator for four hours. Then It was melted and poured into a mold that measured 11.5x6.5x5.5 inches. After an overnight stay in a refrigerator set at 38` Fahrenheit it was taken out to the range.



Upon arriving at the range I immediately set the gel on a piece of cardboard on top of the molding container, then used a temperature probe to determine its temperature. At the time of the test, the gel had warmed up to 40.5-41` Fahrenheit which is in the "official" constraints of 4-5` C. (Unfortunately I don't have a bb gun that shoots exactly 600 fps so I couldn't check calibration of the gel that way.)


Next was a round of 9mm HST 124gr +p.




The bullet penetrated though 11.5 in of gel and out through the back side. I was curious to see the expanded bullet as well as how much further it would have penetrated so I set up again. But this time I placed an aluminum can behind the gel hoping to stop the bullet.




This time I was able to recover the bullet. It also came out of the gel but was stopped buy the thin aluminum can (the can was barely dented). This leads me to believe that the bullet would have passed though an additional 0.5-1 inches of gel before stopping. (Next time I'm going to make the blocks a few inches longer)
I then fired another shot into the gel to confirm my results. Same thing happened.


For fun I decided to fire one round of 55gr FMJ in to the gel for effect.




Needless to say the already weakened gel was destroyed, along with the plastic mold.



This is the second round I fired into the Gel. It measured approximately 0.68 inches.


I didn't to this experiment for any concrete results or such- Mostly for fun.
I'd recommend for anyone who hasn't made some ballistics gel to do so because it's an enjoyable experience.
3/14/2009 4:20:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Cool experiment, Just curious, what makes calibrated B-Gel different from non Cal B-Gel?
3/14/2009 4:30:02 PM EDT
[#2]
To make sure that the gel "accurately" simulates muscle tissue most people shoot a bb at 600fps into the gel and make sure it penetrates  3.25-3.75 in.
3/14/2009 6:49:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
To make sure that the gel "accurately" simulates muscle tissue most people shoot a bb at 600fps into the gel and make sure it penetrates  3.25-3.75 in.


Where do you find the magical 600fps BB gun?

Where do you get the gelatin mix?
3/14/2009 7:10:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
To make sure that the gel "accurately" simulates muscle tissue most people shoot a bb at 600fps into the gel and make sure it penetrates  3.25-3.75 in.


Where do you find the magical 600fps BB gun?

Where do you get the gelatin mix?


I'm not to sure where to get a 600 fps BB gun. Maybe look at a sporting goods store for a pump one and get a chronograph to determine how many pumps it takes to reach 600fps.
It has to shoot about 590fps plus or minus 20fps.

Gelatin can be bought at any supermarket. But they sell it in tiny packages normally (it cost me $17 for 24oz). Knox gelatin is the standard.  Online you can normally buy large 25+ lbs packages of it.
3/15/2009 7:46:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Nice job. I'd like to see that done with the Gold Dot 124+P round.
3/15/2009 8:48:37 AM EDT
[#6]


Kind of interesting just how much more damage a rifle will cause.

3/15/2009 9:01:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
To make sure that the gel "accurately" simulates muscle tissue most people shoot a bb at 600fps into the gel and make sure it penetrates  3.25-3.75 in.


Where do you find the magical 600fps BB gun?

Where do you get the gelatin mix?

Crossman 760


http://www.crosman.com/airguns/rifles/pneumatic/760B

Seriously..

3/15/2009 10:03:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Nice job. I'd like to see that done with the Gold Dot 124+P round.


Once I get the money and time I was planning to test the HST 124 &147, the GD 124, and the RangerT 127. I'm also going to chronograph them all and I wrote an Excel program to calculate kinetic energy/momentum data with standard deviation.   But that's for a later date.

EDIT: maybe the 147 Ranger Ts as well
3/16/2009 9:18:06 AM EDT
[#9]




hst's are nice.

thanks for that.

3/16/2009 9:43:10 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice job. I'd like to see that done with the Gold Dot 124+P round.


Once I get the money and time I was planning to test the HST 124 &147, the GD 124, and the RangerT 127. I'm also going to chronograph them all and I wrote an Excel program to calculate kinetic energy/momentum data with standard deviation.   But that's for a later date.


add the Ranger T 147 as well :0)
3/16/2009 10:15:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Where did you find the gelatin?



All I've been able to find locally are the 1/4oz gelatin packets, and it would take about $25 worth of them to make about 2gallons of gelatin mix.
3/16/2009 10:54:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Where did you find the gelatin?

All I've been able to find locally are the 1/4oz gelatin packets, and it would take about $25 worth of them to make about 2gallons of gelatin mix.


At Fry's and Bashas' they sell 8oz containers that are full of the little 1/4 oz packets. It's kinda a pain to open them all but oh well. It's like $5 for a container. I'm going to check Costco to see if I can score anything bigger.
3/16/2009 12:13:55 PM EDT
[#13]
I can't tell from the pic, what gun or barrel length was the HST fired out of?
3/16/2009 12:30:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I can't tell from the pic, what gun or barrel length was the HST fired out of?


It's a USPc. Should be a 3.58in barrel. Polygonal rifling if that's important to you.
3/16/2009 5:30:15 PM EDT
[#15]
I was going to shoot some gelatin tests, until I figured the cost of the gelatin. The I thought, the proof is in the pudding, as they say. So, I practice with lead and carry HST or Gold Dots or DPX. If I ever have to use any of these, I hope to see what the damage is and the slug looks like from the Medical Examiner's report.
3/16/2009 6:05:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Here's another How to Make Your Own Ballistic Gel link
3/16/2009 6:08:09 PM EDT
[#18]



Quoted:


Here's another How to Make Your Own Ballistic Gel link


Doctor Roberts says that the food gelatin in the pic isn't the same thing as actual BG - I just asked today. Don't know how different it is though...



 
3/16/2009 6:16:56 PM EDT
[#19]
According to THIS link, the type used is Kind & Knox 250-A
Do a Google search for Kind & Knox 250-A––lots of information. Evidently one uses fish gelatin and the other type uses pork gel


HERE'S another useful link.
3/16/2009 6:18:44 PM EDT
[#20]



Quoted:


According to THIS link, the type used is Kind & Knox 250-A

Do a Google search for Kind & Knox 250-A––lots of information. Evidently one uses fish gelatin and the other type uses pork gel





HERE'S another useful link.



Yeah - I'd seen the other links before. I didn't know that that was the difference between 250-A and "regular" gelatin packets (fish gel vs. pork/beef gel).



 
3/16/2009 6:23:48 PM EDT
[#21]
The technical term is "250 Type A Ordnance Gelatin"

I wonder if the fish-based gelatin is used for ballistics because of a strong fishy odor and taste, and the pork for cooking
3/16/2009 7:31:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Good stuff  Next time pour some dye into the bullet entrance of the gel.
Looks a bit toasty there, do you see alot of scorpions?
3/16/2009 8:21:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Good stuff  Next time pour some dye into the bullet entrance of the gel.
Looks a bit toasty there, do you see alot of scorpions?


I'll try the die next time, I was going to cut the blocks in half to examine them but after the 5.56 round it wasn't worth it.

Come outside at night with a blacklight and you'll see scorpions.



3/16/2009 8:27:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
The technical term is "250 Type A Ordnance Gelatin"

I wonder if the fish-based gelatin is used for ballistics because of a strong fishy odor and taste, and the pork for cooking


That'd be interesting to know why there's a difference. Aside from taking more money from us. Where on earth is the cheapest place to get 10 pounds of it without paying out the butt?
3/17/2009 6:58:23 AM EDT
[#25]



Quoted:



That'd be interesting to know why there's a difference. Aside from taking more money from us. Where on earth is the cheapest place to get 10 pounds of it without paying out the butt?


Vyse sells it for $9/pound. That's actually a real good price when you compare it to the grocery store (I estimated $16/pound).



 
3/17/2009 10:59:54 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:

Quoted:

That'd be interesting to know why there's a difference. Aside from taking more money from us. Where on earth is the cheapest place to get 10 pounds of it without paying out the butt?

Vyse sells it for $9/pound. That's actually a real good price when you compare it to the grocery store (I estimated $16/pound).
 


Ya that is pretty good, and the fact that it's legit Ordinance Gelatin is better. I wish I could just buy the gel without the extras to cut the price further Time to get some ammo to test if it's findable.
3/18/2009 4:44:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Cool test!!


Did you find the hassle of making the gel worth it? I have been shooting water jugs and would like to try gel, I am just not sure all the work is worth it.......
3/18/2009 5:51:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Cool test!!


Did you find the hassle of making the gel worth it? I have been shooting water jugs and would like to try gel, I am just not sure all the work is worth it.......


Yes it was worth it. I actually found it fun to make. After making a lot of blocks it'll probably get boring. The biggest issue is paying for the Gelatin and keeping it cold enough while you get out to the range.
3/20/2009 3:35:16 PM EDT
[#29]
The 147gr HST performs even better than the 124gr version.  Give it a try sometime.
3/20/2009 4:12:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
The 147gr HST performs even better than the 124gr version.  Give it a try sometime.


Once I can find some I will. And not for $40 per $50. I with I stocked up on it all when it was 20 per 50.
4/5/2009 7:24:08 PM EDT
[#31]



Federal Tactical HST 147gr +P, P9HST4, as recovered after being shot into Safeway "Refreshe" 2.5gal water jugs.  These 2.5gal jugs are rectangular and exactly twelve inches in length.  The jugs were backed by box packed snugly with old Brownells and Enco catalogs.

Upper left(17), fired from a G22 with a KKM 9mm conversion barrel, the HST went completely through the jug and broke the surface the cardboard behind it, but did not penetrate it.

Upper right(26), fired from a G26, the HST went through to the jug and broke the plastic in back, but was contained with in the jug.  It rebounded back almost to the front of the jug.

The bottom row, were both fired from the G22 conversion directly into the box of catalogs.  The FMJ is Sellier & Bellot 124gr Steel Cased.  The HST went into one and a half Enco catalogs and the FMJ went into two and a half Enco catalogs.  I don't recall how thick the Enco catalogs are, but I guess in the neighborhood of one and one half inches thick.




4/26/2009 6:33:33 PM EDT
[#32]


I shot these into 55gallon drums of water.


From left to right:

147gr +p HST fired from Beretta M9

230gr Speer Gold Dot fired from 5" 1911

230gr +p HST fired from 5" 1911

The 147gr expanded almost as much as the Gold Dot, about .72 vs .74.

The 230gr HST is in the .95" range