Posted: 3/10/2009 7:47:45 PM EDT
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Question for the ammunition gurus:
Could the repeated chambering and ejecting of live rounds lead to inert (dud) primers? Specifically, my daily carry is a Glock 19 loaded with Federal 124g Hydra-Shoks. When I go to the range, I usually shoot WWB or Blazer Brass. I'd love to "practice with what I carry," unfortunately, I couldn't afford much practice at $0.50+ / round. So, prior to range sessions, I eject the chambered Hydra-Shok and proceed to blast away with range ammunition. My question, essentially, is should I trust those rounds that have been chambered and ejected? I recall someone somewhere saying repeatedly chambering and ejecting a live round could cause the primer to become inert. Is there any truth to this? Thank you. |
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Re-chambering non-crimped pistol ammo can lead to bullet set-back which will increase pressures, possibly over safe levels. On my Beretta Px4 I drop the first round directly in the chamber to prevent this, but not all weapons are made so that you can safely release the slide onto a chambered round (1911's come to mind: the extractor flexes too much and may break).
On AR-type weapons with a floating firing pin, every time a round is chambered the firing pin slams forward and kisses the primer. It is thought that this action, happening to the same round repeatedly, will make that round inert. Here is a post discussing the issue on Sig Forums; included is a page from a military publication (P.S. Quarterly?). Conclusion: for your Glock, do not magazine-feed the same round repeatedly because it may kB!. Check the owners manual and see if you can load the chamber directly by hand, close the slide, and then insert the loaded magazine; or if you have to unload your firearm every night/shift rotate that chambered round to the bottom of your magazine. Hope that helps, WhyTanFox |
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Quoted:
So ride the slide and the bullet won't set-back. Maybe. But the bullet is still riding up the feed ramp, so there will be some force pushing it back into the case. And then you have to worry about being out-of-battery. FWIW, I would not recommend riding the action forward. -WhyTanFox |
It's a Hydra-shok, It's an inert round to begin with.
Seriously though, I ride the slide forward on my 19 and 17 so that the round doesn't get the full force of the slide slamming it home. I rotate between the top round in the mag and the round currently chambered doing this and ocassionally compare them with rounds that I haven't chambered to check for setback of the bullet. Just make sure the slide goes into full battery. I've never had an issue doing this and I've done this with all of my auto's for as long as I've CCW'd(15+ yrs). Now go get better carry ammo. 
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This isn't really an issue with my duty G17, since we shoot the duty rounds up fairly regularly, but with my off duty/plain clothes duty guns, I rotate the chambered round(s) regularly. I might chamber the round 2-3 times, then rotate it in the magazine and use another round. Just in case.
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Repeated chamberings in my experience tend to cause bullet set-back and damage to the edges of hollow points. My protocol is that the round that's chambered is the first round fired on the range, period. I'll swap the magazine with "practice ammo" but still fire the "carry round" - this also increases my "confidence level" that the carry rounds will fire.
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So ride the slide and the bullet won't set-back. Maybe. But the bullet is still riding up the feed ramp, so there will be some force pushing it back into the case. And then you have to worry about being out-of-battery. FWIW, I would not recommend riding the action forward. -WhyTanFox Do you understand how cartriges are assembled? How they stay together? What happens when the powder ignites? |
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What about just inserting the round into the chamber and releasing the slide?
This way, the bullet never contacts the feed ramp. I do this all the time. I do notice that the primer does have a little mark on it though. I'm more worried about a possible slam fire than bullet setback. |
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Quoted: On AR-type weapons with a floating firing pin, every time a round is chambered the firing pin slams forward and kisses the primer. It is thought that this action, happening to the same round repeatedly, will make that round inert. Here is a post discussing the issue on Sig Forums; included is a page from a military publication (P.S. Quarterly?). There was a well-circulated photo recently of a perp who was shot in the head with a 9mm round from an MP5 because the SWAT officer with the M4 had a "click" instead of a "bang" due to this very reason. The 9mm round bounced off the guy's head... take a look at him and you'll figure out why. http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/37369379.html |
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Quoted:
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On AR-type weapons with a floating firing pin, every time a round is chambered the firing pin slams forward and kisses the primer. It is thought that this action, happening to the same round repeatedly, will make that round inert. Here is a post discussing the issue on Sig Forums; included is a page from a military publication (P.S. Quarterly?). There was a well-circulated photo recently of a perp who was shot in the head with a 9mm round from an MP5 because the SWAT officer with the M4 had a "click" instead of a "bang" due to this very reason. The 9mm round bounced off the guy's head... take a look at him and you'll figure out why. http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/37369379.html Man, that article is so full of fail though... "A sniper tried to fire his AR-15 assault rifle, but the trigger jammed. A second SWAT sniper twice fired his MP5 assault rifle. One shot missed; another struck Tice's forehead, penetrating to the bone and bouncing off." If you have one of the two firearms above, you're probably not a sniper. Just saying. 
Anyways, there is no proof it was a primer issue. For all we know the LEO had their AR mag in backward. |
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Quoted: Man, that article is so full of fail though... "A sniper tried to fire his AR-15 assault rifle, but the trigger jammed. A second SWAT sniper twice fired his MP5 assault rifle. One shot missed; another struck Tice's forehead, penetrating to the bone and bouncing off." If you have one of the two firearms above, you're probably not a sniper. Just saying. Anyways, there is no proof it was a primer issue. For all we know the LEO had their AR mag in backward. It's a journalist who wrote the article, what would you expect? Solid facts along with clarifying details? There are a shit ton of variations of the article, but the supposed story was that the entry team confronted this guy and the guy with the M4 was supposed to be the lead shooter and when the cartridge malfunctioned, the guy with the MP5 took the shot. There's an "after" shot circulating too where you can see the wound to the guy's face... yikes. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he probably wasn't using Wolf ammo in a Doublestar AR kit. Either way, this primer phenomenon is fairly well-known to occur in the AR-series of firearms or other firearms with a floating firing pin. |
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Quoted:
What about just inserting the round into the chamber and releasing the slide? This way, the bullet never contacts the feed ramp. I do this all the time. I do notice that the primer does have a little mark on it though. I'm more worried about a possible slam fire than bullet setback. How about dropping one into the chamber and gently closing the slide? This way your extractor won't break. |
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Then why do you continue to assert that the bullet is gonna be pushed back deeper in the case when you ride the slide? I wrote But the bullet is still riding up the feed ramp, so there will be some force pushing it back into the case. Is that reduced force enough to cause bullet set back? Probably not.
However, And then you have to worry about being out-of-battery. is my main concern with riding the slide forward.
ETA Set-back is not going to occur the first, third, or fifth time you re-chamber a round. But if your end-of-day/shift/tour SOP is "drop mag; clear weapon; put round back on top of mag", and then load the same round at the start of the next day/shift/tour, you will eventually find that the bullet has been pushed into the case. |
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No it won't, not if you ride the slide, and the out of battery thing is just silly. Any retard can push the slide into battery. +1 I have ridden the slide forward on all of my autos of various brands for years and years and have never seen bullet setback and have never had a weapon fail to go into battery under its own recoil spring tension. I could see the possibility of setback if you just continuously let the slide slam forward on the same round, but not by riding the slide forward. And I load/unload my daily carry on an almost daily basis, with the same few bullets rotated in the mag/chamber, and have yet to see bullet setback while riding the slide into battery. |
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No it won't, not if you ride the slide, and the out of battery thing is just silly. Any retard can push the slide into battery. +1 I do not like riding the slide forward on my Beretta. Yes, if it doesn't go into battey, and I notice it, I can push it the rest of the way. My fool-proof method to prevent o-o-b and bullet set-back is to drop a round into the chamber and sling-shot the slide –– which is perfectly safe on Berettas. You do you, Cochises... Cochisies... Cochi?. I really don't care that much :-) -WhyTanFox |