Posted: 2/9/2008 8:22:46 PM EDT
| Arfcom, I can understand the difference between the 9mm, the .40, the .45 and the 10mm, but I'm not sure how the 357SIG figures into the equation. Does anyone use it for SD? If so, why it vs the 9mm or .40? |
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It's an oddball. It has found favor with some PDs and the Secret Service, as well as some FAMs. It generally performs worse in tissue than 9mm, due to the peculiarites of bullet construction, but goes through car bodies like few other rounds. It is also the loudest caliber you can get in an automatic handgun. .44 magnum is about equal. |
Performs worse than 9mm in tissue? How so? Please provide supporting evidence of your assertion that .357Sig bullet construction is somehow inferior to 9mm. The bullets are designed around the .357Sig's higher velocity so as not to fragment or suffer from jacket-core separation If you like high-velocity, and don't mind being limited to one bullet weight [124-125gr], the .357Sig is for you. I have a Glock 22 with drop-in .357 barrel and love the versatility of having two calibers using the same magazine and recoil spring. Simply drop in the spare barrel and you're good to go. I could argue that the.357 is more accurate than th .40S&W as well [at least in my experience] |
rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html
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| Take 40 case, make the walls a little thicker, neck it down to take 9mm bullets at high pressure and you've got a 357 sig. Kind of a "9mm super" if you will. I have a Glock 32 that will readly take a 40 barrel and the 40 rounds fit in the 357 mag and vice versa. Cool. The 357 has a sharper recoil impulse. One thing is that as the pistol feeds, it's sending a 9mm bullet into a 40 cal throat, so 357 sigs rarely jam. I've noticed that the bullets will set back in the case if the same rounds is loaded and unload 4 or 5 times. |
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In the Ranger T line the 9mm outperforms the .357 Sig. Click on Launch Testing Comparison Tool |
| Pretty much all of the various rounds - 9mm, .357SIG, .40, .45 - will work equally well when using a good bullet design. I don't care much for the .357SIG, mostly because ammo is quite a bit more expensive, and bottle-necked cartridges are more difficult to reload. |
I just looked at the 9mm 147gr (990fps) and .357SIG 125gr (1350fps), and sure enough - the penetration of the .357 in bare gelatin is below 11". My guess is that all that extra velocity goes to making a temporary cavity, which at that velocity is not of much importance (although Michael Courtney will disagree). |
They're nearly identical terminally-speaking. Speer 124gr Gold Dots Remington 125gr Bonded Golden Sabre Hornady 124gr XTP Buffalo Bore 125gr JHC Cor-Bon 125gr JHP All of the above loads have different penetrating and wound profiles - there's no 'best' one; just one best suited to your needs different strokes for different folks |
I'm not interested in finding you proof. |
'cause you've got no proof..... |
yeah, the Winchester T-Series .357 sig and 9mm have similar terminal performance. What about all of the other loads that i posted above? You can't back your blanket statment without proof Comparing some 9mm loads with the .357 Sig is like comparing the .38 Special with the .357mag. They all perform differently in tissue and gelatin at different velocity levels. Not all bullets are alike |
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I don't want to get into a pissing match with any of you. I've owned a .357sig Glock 33 for the last five years. I LOVE IT! The rounds are a bit expensive but if you buy a box every time you have an extra $20(win @ Wally World) then it does not hurt so much when you go to the range. On the other hand I'm looking to buy another barrel in .40 or 9mm(conversion) for a less inexpensive round. I love the idea of having 2 or 3 guns in one. he Of course all of this is just one guys opinion. |
From what I can tell, it is about equal to the 9 in tissue and about equal in penetration of car bodies, etc. If you want better performance, get a .40 or a .45. .357 SIG is an answer in search of a question. |
Actually, looking at ALL the Ranger T 9 mm loads and ALL the Ranger T .357 SIG loads, the .357 SIG that wasn't bonded gave the worst performance. That's out of 5 9mm loads and 2 .357 SIG. The advantage of the 9mm (IMO) is that it offers the 147 gr bullets. The 125s are a bit light for the SIG velocities. I suspect that the SIG would benifit from bonded bullets more than, say, 9mm, and that the Ranger T data is typical in this respect. The bottom line is that .357 SIG is, for all intents and purposes, just as good as a 9. Except for cost. Recoil. Noise. Flash. Capacity. Wear & tear on the gun. And the fact you have to be more careful in selecting ammo. |
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I carry a G32 but have no problems with a 9mm.IMO,the .357SIG is to the 9mm as what the 10mm is to the .40S&W. The Speer GDHP @1375fps out of a 4" barrel is a great cartridge.The bottle neck casing adds to reliable feeding.My G32 is the only pistol I have ever owned that has never had a malfunction. The downsides to the .357 is bullet set-back,high ammo cost,ammo availabilty and less capacity then the 9mm.I have found Winchesters RA357SIGT's to be horrible as far as bullet set-back goes.Core/jacket seperation is also a issue that you won't have using bonded bullets. Is the .357SIG a better man-stopper than the 9mm?IMO,yes.Is it dramatically better?Nope.Shot placement still remains king. |
I bought aRUGER P85 when they FIRST came out Lots of ammo fired ZERO malfuntions BUT HORRIBLE ACCURACY Colt Combat Elite First model that came out Super accurate never a malfuntion SIG P229 40 cal bought in 95/96 Most accurate out of box handgun to date Ive owned shot lots of ammo Zero MALFUNTIONS LOVES 135gr to 200gr COLT MUSTANG 380 zero jams used 380 ball anf hydra shok Under 1000rds fired Most my Handguns I used were S&W 5 and 6 guns Very accurate no jamms |
RATHER have the 9mm with 4inch barrel and a 147 ranger load or 127 +P+ Less kick Faster Follow up shots VERY Close to the SAME DAMAGE and Penetration CHECK OUT THE ABOVE TACKED THREADS BEST LOADS COMPARE THE SIG357 to the 9mm The 40sw in 180gr looks good  I carry a Sig P229 40cal with Ranger 180gr and a S&W 6906 9mm with ranger 127+P+ BTW I wouldnt use a 10mm!! Unless I used 180grJHP at 950 FPS I dont care for EXTRA RECOIL makes Follow up shots a little harder But thats just me  |
I have no idea on terminal effect and I know you have way more options with 9mm and some of the awsome loads available along with expense and availability. But I know what I can hit with my xd 357 out past 100yds and how well it will penetrate a hard surface. Yes the 9 is more practicle imo but I will still carry my 357sig when I carry a semi. They all have their benefits and drawbacks thats why I would rather just have them all
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The 357 SIG was designed to mimic the 357 magnum performance which is the proven top man stopper right in line with the 45 ACP. The statistics come from decades of research and recently the .40 S&W is also right on top of the chart also. The modern 9 mm +p+ ammo come very close to 357 SIG, it can surely be said the 357 SIG has the edge for the caliber and is faster and more powerful than the 9mm, but it doesn't make the 9mm a poor choice. I personally set my minimum standard at .40 S&W and up for HD or carry, I never had a problem with the follow up shots with any semi auto, nor the recoil seemed too much. Considering the age, sex and physical fitness it can be a deterrent for many folks though. I use the 9mm for the secondary carry or the bug, nothing against the 9mm but a little edge always helps in self defense scenarios. Target shooting is a different story all together. The calculated precision one or two shots do the job right, and for such scenario the proven man stoppers plus the shot placement seems to be the best choice. I never liked the idea of the spray and pray for civilian defense, unless I was in a the battle field or there was some kind of terrorist riots, where the whole group in front of me was a target. |
Ive carried in my 20 +yrs of CCW 357magnum in S&W M19,S&W M13, S&W M686 both 4inch tube and a 640/649 J frame AMMO USED 125gr SJHP By Federal And my own reloads wich are even Hotter Colt Combat Elite 1911 45acp Ruger GP100 3inch Short List  I can handle the recoil! I was lucky to grow up with a Shooting range in my yard.Lots of Practice Its is Still better to get a Proven round that passes the FBI Testing And that has the Less recoil Less Recoil = Faster More accurate Follow up shots I SHOOT UNTIL BAD GUY IS DOWN PERIOD!! Wich isnt spray pray 1 or 2 shots you say ?? To bad one cant count on that |
+1 looking at the Gel test in the ABOVE tacked threads Go to the WINCHESTER LEO web site and Launch Compare Ranger 9mm 147gr Bonded and Ranger 357sig Bonded |