Posted: 7/4/2012 5:44:06 PM EDT
| So...I went on a gentle kayaking trip. My magazines with .45 HST were triple bagged in ziplock freezer bags. It didn't matter, they were soaked when we go to the end of ten miles. My question is how wet can ammo get before it isn't any good? The mags probably were in water for about 3 hours. I hate to use it for range ammo, there was 8 mags full of it. |
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Shooting them is the only sure way to tell. Everything else is speculation. I remembered saving this link.
HST |
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So...I went on a gentle kayaking trip. My magazines with .45 HST were triple bagged in ziplock freezer bags. It didn't matter, they were soaked when we go to the end of ten miles. My question is how wet can ammo get before it isn't any good? The mags probably were in water for about 3 hours. I hate to use it for range ammo, there was 8 mags full of it. When I started reloading I asked my go to guy about using primmer sealant. He laugh ! So I went home and loaded up some 9mm ball ammo on my dillon square deal. I put the cartridge in a glass of water for over 24hrs. Took it out of the glass and fired it off. Boom! Belive it or not its pretty hard for water to get inside the case. Plus some brands of LEO ammo comes seald. even at both ends. (But not all brands) |
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Thanks for the replies. I guess it's range ammo now. I can use it to show my ten yr. son how it expands. I carried 8 mags because I could. 
Just wish I had used something better to keep them dry. I would've carried my rifle but, it would scare the sheeple.  You know about all of arfs boating accidents, right? |
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Thanks for the replies. I guess it's range ammo now. I can use it to show my ten yr. son how it expands. I carried 8 mags because I could.
Just wish I had used something better to keep them dry. I would've carried my rifle but, it would scare the sheeple. I guess you could zip lock tripple wrap them |
| It's range ammo now, but you already know that; instead I've come here to direct you to the proper gear for your next kayaking trip...invest in one of these and your perishable items getting wet is no longer a concern. |
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It's range ammo now, but you already know that; instead I've come here to direct you to the proper gear for your next kayaking trip...invest in one of these and your perishable items getting wet is no longer a concern. Thanks, I've been trying to find a good dry bag. |
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Here's a link to a thread about the lack of sealants making high end ammo susceptible to water damage. The short version is don't trust it if it gets wet, just use it for practice and get new stuff.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_75/1316264_Speer_Gold_Dot_versus_Winchester_PDX____Or_why_being_in_the_industry_sucks_.html |
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Here's a link to a thread about the lack of sealants making high end ammo susceptible to water damage. The short version is don't trust it if it gets wet, just use it for practice and get new stuff. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_75/1316264_Speer_Gold_Dot_versus_Winchester_PDX____Or_why_being_in_the_industry_sucks_.html Your link is dead. Just sends you to the general forum selection page. |
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It's range ammo now, but you already know that; instead I've come here to direct you to the proper gear for your next kayaking trip...invest in one of these and your perishable items getting wet is no longer a concern. Also might be able to pick up an army surplus waterproof bag dirt cheap. They're good as long as they're tied right. Bags Bunch on Ebay, but those commercial ones aren't very expensive and are probably nicer. Also won't come with the TA-50 smell on em. Things are funky. |
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Here's a link to a thread about the lack of sealants making high end ammo susceptible to water damage. The short version is don't trust it if it gets wet, just use it for practice and get new stuff. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_75/1316264_Speer_Gold_Dot_versus_Winchester_PDX____Or_why_being_in_the_industry_sucks_.html Your link is dead. Just sends you to the general forum selection page. He posted a Team-Member-only forum link. The jist of the experiment that he did is that high-end ammo is more susceptible to water invasion than most people think it is. Make it range ammo. The results of the tests in that link shocked me. |
I've made it range ammo and I've been shooting some into water to show my son what it looks like expanded. The results have been very impressive I must say. I know water isn't the same as ballistic gel but both the HST and Ranger opened up to more than an inch. Still pretty impressive!! This is .45 ammo.
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Here's a cell pic of the bullets after we did our "testing". 230 gr Ranger on the left top, 230 gr +P HST on the right top, Cor-Bon solid copper 9mm is first from left, 147 gr Ranger is second on bottom, 147 gr HST is third and 124 gr +P Gold Dot is last on the bottom. The .45 ammo was fired from a Dan Wesson VBOB and the 9mm ammo was fired from a Kahr PM9. Even though water isn't a suitable test media, it's interesting that the 9mm Ranger didn't expand as much as I would have expected. I'm sure the 3" barrel played a part. However, the Gold Dot, Cor-Bon and HST showed significant expansion even though it was water.
Any ideas why that might be? 
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| T series. I do understand they weren't made for shooting water, it's just that my "understanding" of bullet expansion is that it becomes exaggerated when fired into water. I suppose my question then is, was it because they weren't meant to be fired into water or was it that they were fired from a three inch barrel that they didn't do as well as the others? Would/should ballistic gel give better results from the same pistol? |
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The T-Series is made to work in low velocity. Some shoot the +P or +P+ in water and get the exaggerated star fish look.
Most ammo is made for the specific results in calibrated jello. In other words perfect world shoots.Real shooting the bullet should not be expected to perform the same. The variables such as clothes, skin, fat, muscle, solid organs, hollow organs, and bones will have different effects on the bullet as it passes. I have the Winchester 147 PDX1 in my Kahr. Being a bonded bullet in a short barrel I expect to give up some expansion for penetration. My mindset is bullet placement and consider expansion more as a bonus than a requirement. |
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Here's a link to a thread about the lack of sealants making high end ammo susceptible to water damage. The short version is don't trust it if it gets wet, just use it for practice and get new stuff. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_75/1316264_Speer_Gold_Dot_versus_Winchester_PDX____Or_why_being_in_the_industry_sucks_.html Your link is dead. Just sends you to the general forum selection page. He posted a Team-Member-only forum link. The jist of the experiment that he did is that high-end ammo is more susceptible to water invasion than most people think it is. Make it range ammo. The results of the tests in that link shocked me. Me too. Though I will note that for some reason 9mm seems to get sealant more than other calibers. We had a couple pallets of 147 Black Talons (left over from when we had MP5s and Berettas,) which was all submerged in brackish water for a couple weeks. The range was gonna toss it, and I got them to give me around 10k rounds for grins, seeing as my UZI won't run worth a darn with cheap 115 practice ammo, and every single round fired just fine. |
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I wish I could find it for that price. 30.00 per 50 is about as cheap as I can find. It went up from 16$ to 18$ different box. They used to have it in the same box my buddy from home land was issued http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/500-rds-40-cal-federal-hst-155-grain-government-contract-ammo-xm40hb |