Posted: 4/18/2010 7:41:09 AM EDT
I bought this M9 about two years ago and I haven't really shot it much, maybe 500 rounds or so. It is completely stock except for the Hogue grips I put on it. It recently started having the malfunctions mostly stove-piping with the occasional failure to feed. It does this regularly (at least once per mag) and it does it with all kinds of ammo including WWB, Wolf, Remington, Magtech, Blazer Brass, etc. When the last round is fired the slide fails to lock back almost 100% of the time. It looks like it might be short stroking to me. What do I need to do to fix this? I don't know anything about Berettas.
Thanks, Nic4433 |
| I never really had that problem in my 92. Did you buy the gun brand new or was it used? Do you store it with full mags? Try buying a box of Federal 115gr FMJ's and see if it still does it. Also, it could be you. Are you not locking your wrist and elbow. If your weak-wristing it that commonly causes stove pipes. It really sounds like a mag problem to me but I'm just trying to cover all the bases. |
|
It's more than likely magazine-related. Are you using Factory magazines (P.B or M.D.S.)? If not those, is the magazine made by Mec-Gar? If the answer is yes to either, than disassemble the magazine. Clean all components and re-assemble. BUT make sure the top of the magazine spring (first loop) is pointing to the FRONT of the magazine body and lifting the FRONT of the follower UP.
Then try it again and see if the problem is corrected. A good 92 will still run MOST of the time with the magazine-spring installed backwards but will constantly fail to lock the slide back when empty. Good luck. |
|
This should be a somewhat cheap fix, IMO. The issue may be finding what's causing it. I would do the following in this order:
1) Clean the gun well. Make sure you have a liberal amount of oil on the frame & slide rails both. 2) Replace the recoil spring with a new one, about $10~. 3) Buy a brand new mag thus ensuring a good mag spring. Use either a Beretta OEM mag, Mec-Gar or Checkmate mag ONLY. 4) Have someone other than you shoot the gun too in order to eliminate the limp wristing possibility. Good luck! |
|
All the above are solid recommendations.
I noticed the snow in the background. Is it possible that it's not clean and lubed properly? Some grease in there and cold weather, and it will slow a slide down quick. You swapped to Houge grips. While Houges are high quality grips, and this is a long-shot, I tend to look at ANYTHING that the owner did to the gun int he way of modifications. Check to make sure the new grip panels aren't rubbing on something, like the bottom of the slide, or the slide lock. I'd shoot it with the OEM grip panels to just take the Houges out of the equation. If it still stovepipes, then you know it's not the grips for sure. |
|
Go with a good cleaning first, then a new recoil spring. IIRC if it is weak the slide recoils too fast and tries to unlock while there is still too much pressure in the case and it then gets slowed down due to friction of the case holding onto the chamber still. But I may be off on that.
Either that or stop limpwristing. 
|
|
Thanks for all the replies. I doubt that it is caused by limpwristing, I don't have a problem shooting any other handguns even Glock and the Beretta malfunctions when other people shoot it as well. I also don't think it is the mags because I have about 12 all made from Beretta and Mec-gar and I get malfunctions from all of them. But I will buy a couple new ones just to be sure. I give it a really good cleaning and replace the recoil spring and see if that helps.
What weight of recoil spring should I get? Are there any other springs or parts I should replace? Thanks for the help, Nic4433 |
|
Quoted:
What weight of recoil spring should I get? Are there any other springs or parts I should replace? OEM weight is 13lbs, IIRC. Personally, I like bumping up my recoil spring weights by 2-3lbs over OEM as I don't like frame battering nor do I shoot light target loads. Others like to replace the trigger return spring with a captured Wolf spring unit but this is ONLY for use with a METAL trigger. If you have a polymer trigger you can swap a metal one in if you want to. It's a fairly simple process, even *I* was able to do it.
Others also drop down to a 13lb mainspring in order to give an instant trigger job for only a few $$$$. If you do swap the mainspring, bump up the recoil spring to compensate. Hope this helps! 
|
|
I say this as a Beretta 92 armorer and a LE Instructor who has had at least one of your two problems myself (still do)...
Is your grip like this pic? (mine is)... It almost always causes the slide to go forward on an empty magazine. Instead of changing my grip as it has been taught to me since 1992, I have adjusted and retrained to not use the slide release to "release the slide". I use my off hand to grasp the back of the slide, pull back, and release during mag changes. Can't say that is your problem, but someone may benefit from this post... 
|
| I'm betting it just isn't broken in well enough if you bought it new and only shot 500rds through it. Or if you bought it used then i bet the recoil spring is worn out. You can buy a Wolf 13lbs recoil spring either way and should solve the problem. Or just shoot it a lot more to break it in if it was in fact new and just not shot much. |
|
Quoted:
I say this as a Beretta 92 armorer and a LE Instructor who has had at least one of your two problems myself (still do)... Is your grip like this pic? (mine is)... It almost always causes the slide to go forward on an empty magazine. Instead of changing my grip as it has been taught to me since 1992, I have adjusted and retrained to not use the slide release to "release the slide". I use my off hand to grasp the back of the slide, pull back, and release during mag changes. Can't say that is your problem, but someone may benefit from this post... http://i43.tinypic.com/qnlmzc.jpg Yes, my grip is exactly like the pic. I already don't use the slide release on any of my pistols (I'm a lefty), but I like the slide lock-back to be able to see the gun is empty. |
|
Quoted:
I am kinda weirded out that the gun hasn't been used much. Was it new or used when you got it? It was new. I haven't shot it much because when I bought it I had recently turned 21. After I got my CCW I began to focus mostly on shooting my concealed carry guns and the Beretta was left in the safe. |
| $10 for an aftermarket recoil spring? Why not buy a Beretta USA spring for $1.49? Don't get me wrong, Wolff isn't bad kit, but the O.E.M. part is just fine and a fraction of the cost. And 500 rounds is light mileage to be wearing out a recoil spring. Try a thorough clean and proper lubrication in accordance with your manual. As already suggested, use correctly assembled factory magazines for any troubleshooting. A final thought, make sure you're using good quality ammo. A couple of the brands listed in the OP are not quality ammo (weak powder charges, inconsistent case sizing, lacquered steel, etc). |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I say this as a Beretta 92 armorer and a LE Instructor who has had at least one of your two problems myself (still do)... Is your grip like this pic? (mine is)... It almost always causes the slide to go forward on an empty magazine. Instead of changing my grip as it has been taught to me since 1992, I have adjusted and retrained to not use the slide release to "release the slide". I use my off hand to grasp the back of the slide, pull back, and release during mag changes. Can't say that is your problem, but someone may benefit from this post... http://i43.tinypic.com/qnlmzc.jpg Yes, my grip is exactly like the pic. I already don't use the slide release on any of my pistols (I'm a lefty), but I like the slide lock-back to be able to see the gun is empty. Before you do ANYTHING to the pistol or mags, take it to the range again with the picture in mind. Load up 3 or 4 rounds in all of your magazines and make a concerted effort NOT TO TOUCH the slide release. Don't worry about accuracy or even the sights for that matter (just keep it in the backstop). Concentrate solely on not even touching the slide release at all. It takes very little pressure to accidently keep it depressed (trust me, I still do it). I'll bet this is actually the issue. It doesn't solve your other issue nor being able to see the slide locked back, but I'd be curious if this is it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I say this as a Beretta 92 armorer and a LE Instructor who has had at least one of your two problems myself (still do)... Is your grip like this pic? (mine is)... It almost always causes the slide to go forward on an empty magazine. Instead of changing my grip as it has been taught to me since 1992, I have adjusted and retrained to not use the slide release to "release the slide". I use my off hand to grasp the back of the slide, pull back, and release during mag changes. Can't say that is your problem, but someone may benefit from this post... http://i43.tinypic.com/qnlmzc.jpg Yes, my grip is exactly like the pic. I already don't use the slide release on any of my pistols (I'm a lefty), but I like the slide lock-back to be able to see the gun is empty. Before you do ANYTHING to the pistol or mags, take it to the range again with the picture in mind. Load up 3 or 4 rounds in all of your magazines and make a concerted effort NOT TO TOUCH the slide release. Don't worry about accuracy or even the sights for that matter (just keep it in the backstop). Concentrate solely on not even touching the slide release at all. It takes very little pressure to accidently keep it depressed (trust me, I still do it). I'll bet this is actually the issue. It doesn't solve your other issue nor being able to see the slide locked back, but I'd be curious if this is it. It's not going to solve the problem at hand, which you already stated, but I thought I'd interject and not get him on a wild goose chase. I'd try and remedy he malf problem before trying to figure out if I'm riding the slide stop. I suppose it's possible that it could be slowing down the slide in some way to make it stovepipe though. Hmmmm...... I used to ride my stop and never had a problem with function, besides that it wouldn't lock open after the last round. I did the other thing and changed my grip to thumb over thumb because I like it better and it seems to be more user friendly to different positions and platforms. IMHO. I know, I know, all the cool guys use high thumbs. Well, I went back to being uncool. But I digress.... I think Ross's point about the grips is valid. Although it seems like the rubbing would be more on the DA lever. But who knows. It's interesting because my M9 has been the most reliable pistol I own. From the get go. |
|
Thanks for the help. I shot it today and it functioned perfectly with three types of ammo and all of my mags. Its kind of embarrassing but the cause of my problems were due to poor weapon maintenance. I didn't lube it enough and it caused the slide to slow down and fail to operate properly.
|
|
Quoted:
Its kind of embarrassing but the cause of my problems were due to poor weapon maintenance. I didn't lube it enough and it caused the slide to slow down and fail to operate properly. Seems like some extraordinarily handsome guy suggested this very thing....................
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its kind of embarrassing but the cause of my problems were due to poor weapon maintenance. I didn't lube it enough and it caused the slide to slow down and fail to operate properly. Seems like some extraordinarily handsome guy suggested this very thing.................... It was so obvious, I didn't even suggest it! I don't know about handsome but very knowledgeable for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad the pistol is working! |
|
Quoted:
It was so obvious, I didn't even suggest it! After years now of shooting USPSA & 3 Gun matches, I cannot count the number of shooters who've run their guns dry & obviously had issues in a match. My buddies laugh at me when they shoot my guns & a mist covers their glasses. But they never argue when I mention that due to the oil, MY guns run................ 
|