P220- any love!?? (Page 2 of 3)
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I passed on one at the LGS last weekend. I'm poor and I wanted the P229 they had more, even though the P220 was a little cheaper. I figured my USP 45 and my S&W 645 would fill my DA/SA .45ACP needs. |
"An age of glory passed like a lightning flash. The mandate of heaven passed from you but you didn't see. Times change and power passes. It is the pity of the world."
Song dynasty poet
Song dynasty poet
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Two more on the way. Should be able to pick-up tomorrow. Pics from the listing. 1998 220 Attached File 220 Legion SAO Attached File |
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: The Classic in the top pic has some good honest holster wear. Ex-LE gun maybe? Possibly. Here's the other side. Attached File |
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My latest: New production P220R Elite. Optics ready. Frame has the "Newington-NH-USA". I like how the frame is slightly undercut under the trigger guard and there in good checkering on the front of the grip. I generally like the E2 grip since it solves the grip panel flexing and grip screws rusting. But I don't like how hard it is to remove to clean the guts. Once I remove the E2 grips, I leave them off and get regular OEM panels or Hogues. The gun shot well, no problems so far. The trigger is ok and typical for guns now days with the mushy sliding-stacking break. No clean crips break like the old classic guns but serviceable. Reliability has been 100%. Workmanship looks great and equal to the old German guns imho. Probably due to the CNC machines. The feed ramp and throat have a nice polish. Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By dump1567: Possibly. Here's the other side. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/19737/PXL_20251001_150355239_jpg-3638781.JPG I made the wear go away. It's amazing how well touch-up bluing cleans-up these older slides. Not for everyone, but I like it. I also found an 19 lb. MS in my parts bin. This one still had the "old Style". What a PITA. The DA trigger is much better now. Attached File A little slide swapping. The Legion is practically new and dates to 2023. Not bad for $850. Unfortunately, the original owner already registered it, so no free soft case for me. But I am already a Legion member. Attached File Attached File |
I am a little resentful at what I needed to change so as to replace the, broken, wooden grips with the newer plastic.  This mainspring design interferes with the plastic:  Changing to this spring:  Just changing the spring and hammer strut led to the trigger not resetting at random and a strange, double action pull. The new strut required changing the hammer. The new hammer required changing the hammer stop and adding a hammer rebound spring. It's all good now, but what a pain! If I never take the locking insert out again it will be too soon! 
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Vintage Ain't Retro.
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Originally Posted By dump1567: Just bought another off GB. This one a 9mm. https://assets.gunbroker.com/q_auto:best/f_auto/pics/1121658000/1121658184/pix205877427.jpg Wow. That's a classic. I bet it was expensive. I read somewhere that the P220 in 9mm is/was issued in the Japanese Navy. Is that true? Also, I never knew that the slides and frames from the old/new guns were interchangeable. Very cool. |
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Wow. That's a classic. I bet it was expensive. I read somewhere that the P220 in 9mm is/was issued in the Japanese Navy. Is that true? Also, I never knew that the slides and frames from the old/new guns were interchangeable. Very cool. I don’t really know much of the history of these. This one is marked Montage Suisse, which I guess means it was assembled by the Swiss. And it was actually only $799. It sat on GB for a few weeks without bids. I guess no one likes the old style slides? |
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Originally Posted By dump1567: I don’t really know much of the history of these. This one is marked Montage Suisse, which I guess means it was assembled by the Swiss. And it was actually only $799. It sat on GB for a few weeks without bids. I guess no one likes the old style slides? Nice. I bet it shoot very nice. |
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Nice. I bet it shoot very nice. A little more researched revealed this is probably a Geneva Switzerland Police gun. I saw another that sold on Guns Intl. Can't wait to get my hands on it. I've already spent a ton on 3 extra factory mags and original plastic grips.  
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Originally Posted By dump1567: Looks like a nice clean 86' with all the goodies. https://assets.gunbroker.com/q_auto:best/f_auto/pics/1135892000/1135892829/pix719821119.jpg Originally Posted By dump1567: Originally Posted By XM21Nick: Nice older one just popped up on GB . NGAsales. Looks like a nice clean 86' with all the goodies. https://assets.gunbroker.com/q_auto:best/f_auto/pics/1135892000/1135892829/pix719821119.jpg If you’re interested in it I live walking distance from that place . Let me know if you want me to check something on it . |
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Originally Posted By XM21Nick: If you’re interested in it I live walking distance from that place . Let me know if you want me to check something on it . Thanks for the offer. But I'm already up to 5 P220's including my 9mm. Probably don't need another. I actually already have a pretty nice older 1987 built P220. |
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Originally Posted By dump1567: Just bought another off GB. This one a 9mm. https://assets.gunbroker.com/q_auto:best/f_auto/pics/1121658000/1121658184/pix205877427.jpg I was just getting ready to post a gripe that no one had shown any love for the 9mm version P220. I bought mine years ago as an alternate to plinking with a 22LR; ammo at the time cost $2 to $3 for a 50rnd box of S&B FMJ - from Cheaper Than Dirt of all places. I think I paid $230 for it in 1995; it came from an estate sale with very little milage on it. If I recall the history correctly, the 9mm version was used extensively by security forces in Europe. |
| I have an old classic police trade in I’ve had for years. When the playing around stops and it’s time to shoot for money this is the one I pull out. I remember I had to dremmel a few spots in some factory plastic thin grips and the results were it fit perfectly for me. I’ve had several other 220s but for some reason the police trade in was by far the best shooter. |
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Originally Posted By Ranxerox911: I was just getting ready to post a gripe that no one had shown any love for the 9mm version P220. I bought mine years ago as an alternate to plinking with a 22LR; ammo at the time cost $2 to $3 for a 50rnd box of S&B FMJ - from Cheaper Than Dirt of all places. I think I paid $230 for it in 1995; it came from an estate sale with very little milage on it. If I recall the history correctly, the 9mm version was used extensively by security forces in Europe. When the Swiss wanted to upgrade their Military side arm from the Sig P210, they developed the P75 (Sig P220) in 9mm. This was their Military issue weapon and was adopted by several Swiss LE Agencies as the P220. Mine was in service with the Geneva PD. I actually shoot this gun better than most and it's very accurate. Obviously, the heel release slows down reloads. There are standard push button mag release models available, but they seem to be pretty rare. Along with the mags they accept. |
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Originally Posted By dump1567: When the Swiss wanted to upgrade their Military side arm from the Sig P210, they developed the M75 (Sig P220) in 9mm. This was their Military issue weapon and was adopted by several Swiss LE Agencies as the P220. Mine was in service with the Geneva PD. I actually shoot this gun better than most and it's very accurate. Obviously, the heel release slows down reloads. There are standard push button mag release models available, but they seem to be pretty rare. Along with the mags they accept. Originally Posted By dump1567: Originally Posted By Ranxerox911: I was just getting ready to post a gripe that no one had shown any love for the 9mm version P220. I bought mine years ago as an alternate to plinking with a 22LR; ammo at the time cost $2 to $3 for a 50rnd box of S&B FMJ - from Cheaper Than Dirt of all places. I think I paid $230 for it in 1995; it came from an estate sale with very little milage on it. If I recall the history correctly, the 9mm version was used extensively by security forces in Europe. When the Swiss wanted to upgrade their Military side arm from the Sig P210, they developed the M75 (Sig P220) in 9mm. This was their Military issue weapon and was adopted by several Swiss LE Agencies as the P220. Mine was in service with the Geneva PD. I actually shoot this gun better than most and it's very accurate. Obviously, the heel release slows down reloads. There are standard push button mag release models available, but they seem to be pretty rare. Along with the mags they accept. Yes! Thanks for posting the entire story - I vaguely recall reading about that in literature (newsletter?) that SIGARMS used to put when they were in Tysons Corner, Virginia. I never knew they made a mag button release version, I probably would've searched pretty hard for one if I'd known - it's the only criticism I have of the gun. Different times, different philosophies. |
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Originally Posted By Ranxerox911: Yes! Thanks for posting the entire story - I vaguely recall reading about that in literature (newsletter?) that SIGARMS used to put when they were in Tysons Corner, Virginia. I never knew they made a mag button release version, I probably would've searched pretty hard for one if I'd known - it's the only criticism I have of the gun. Different times, different philosophies. I actually was bidding one up on GB prior to buying my heel release. It dated to 1995. I'm not sure how rare they are? And of all the mag searches I've done, I haven't seen mags for these come up, just the heel version without the button cut. Anyway, once it got to $1K, I let the other bidder have it. If you're interested on the P220 history:  Development of the SIG P220, aka the Swiss P75 Army Pistol |
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Originally Posted By dump1567: I actually was bidding one up on GB prior to buying my heel release. It dated to 1995. I'm not sure how rare they are? And of all the mag searches I've done, I haven't seen mags for these come up, just the heel version without the button cut. Anyway, once it got to $1K, I let the other bidder have it. If you're interested on the P220 history:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YXgBXvBSlkThanks for the YT vid; I'll watch that tonight. I don't know that I'd be interested in a button release version now; if they are rare (along with the mags) I'd constantly feel guilty about ruining any collector value it had by shooting it too much. |
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https://www.guns.com/news/2021/02/02/browning-bda-the-og-sig-sauer-p220 I only have the original, Eurotrash heel release marked “Browning BDM” in .45 ACP. Not the “other” Browning BDM made by Beretta in 9mm Corto or 7.65 Browning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_BDA_380 |
| This thread is making me want to break out my 228 and 220. I retired the 228 because I was afraid the frame would break (again) and it’d be gone forever. I’ve since seen reference that ‘maybe’ somone is making replacement frames so more research is needed. As to the question of a 220 being accurate? When I bought mine new the factory test target showed 4 rds (of 45) that could ‘almost’ be covered by a nickle. And definitely fully covered by a quarter..at 15meters. Kinda big for cc but with appendix it might be doable. |
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Originally Posted By hsvhobbit: This thread is making me want to break out my 228 and 220. I retired the 228 because I was afraid the frame would break (again) and it’d be gone forever. I’ve since seen reference that ‘maybe’ somone is making replacement frames so more research is needed. As to the question of a 220 being accurate? When I bought mine new the factory test target showed 4 rds (of 45) that could ‘almost’ be covered by a nickle. And definitely fully covered by a quarter..at 15meters. Kinda big for cc but with appendix it might be doable. Matrix sells Revenant Arms made replacement frames. Revenant Arms Serialized Frames All Models |
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My first SIG was a W. German P220 in 38 Super with the European Heel Release. IIRC that was in the late 1980s. I've had a bunch of German and a few American P220s since. My favorite was the all stainless (frame included) in 45ACP. Overall, they tie the P229 as my least favorite of the Traditional P Series guns. I simply prefer the P225, P226 and P228. The P220 just never really inspired the same affection. Good gun, but I'd take any of the following first ... USP45, USP45C, HK45, HK45C. |
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Did someone say P220? P220-45 Compact with SAO trigger, SKU 220C3-45-BSSP-SAO. It was manufactured 30-APR-2010 with the SIG night sights and aluminum grips. Attached File |
"Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky!" -Alec Guinness as MAJ (acting Colonel) Jock Sinclair, D.S.O., M.M. "Tunes of Glory"
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Carried my 220 to pick up my 228 Attached File |
Taxation without representation
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Originally Posted By airgunner: I don't have a P220 in 45acp but I do have... A P220 SAO in 10mm... https://i.imgur.com/yPsRXSO.jpg And a P227 in 45acp ... https://i.imgur.com/PKRMpby.jpg That SS P220 is beautiful. I wish they made the 5" P220 in 45acp. I know they made some of the match models and such, so may need to find one of those. |
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Yeah, I'm a fan. I bought it new in 1995. It's still here, so, it's a keeper. Attached File |
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They also made a very few fixed sight match long slides. I had two. I sold for what I thought was big$. I wish I hadn’t. I have pics just don’t know how to post them. Originally Posted By BlindFaith429: That SS P220 is beautiful. I wish they made the 5" P220 in 45acp. I know they made some of the match models and such, so may need to find one of those. Originally Posted By BlindFaith429: Originally Posted By airgunner: I don't have a P220 in 45acp but I do have... A P220 SAO in 10mm... https://i.imgur.com/yPsRXSO.jpg And a P227 in 45acp ... https://i.imgur.com/PKRMpby.jpg That SS P220 is beautiful. I wish they made the 5" P220 in 45acp. I know they made some of the match models and such, so may need to find one of those. |
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⁸Attached File Attached File |
If a 147 grn 9mm at 1000 FPS is the hammer of Thor then a 165 grn. 40 at 1200 fps must a lightening bolt from Zeus!
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Attached File I just picked up this P220 last week (thanks to this thread). I have owned only two 45 ACP pistols. One is a Colt 1991A1 my dad helped me buy back when I was in high school. I still own that well used pistola. The other was a Glock 30 SF that I sold to fund the purchase of a Glock 26 (later sold that as well). Thus far, this Sig has not bobbled with any of my reloads: 230 grain LRN, 185 grain LSWC, and 230 grain XTPs. My Colt and the Glock 30 would eventually bumble the LSWC projectiles. Next up will be a P225 or P6 and then a Legion 229. |
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A little Attached File The P220 Family Counterclockwise- SAO Compact, German, German, W. German, SSE. They have a habit of multiplying. I think I need a Combat, maybe a Carry, and an American railed model. |
"Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky!" -Alec Guinness as MAJ (acting Colonel) Jock Sinclair, D.S.O., M.M. "Tunes of Glory"
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Previous post commented on the long internal extractors possibly failing. I found one from Matrix Precision for the 226 but not 220. I pulled the firing pin blocks off both. They seem close. I wish I had taken the out for a definitive comparison. The owner of Matrix thought the bend in the extractor maybe different. I wonder if it’s an adjustment/tension fitment issue rather than a dimensional difference. Has anyone installed a short reset trigger on the older W German 220’s? I saw some comments about it interfering with the DA operation. Top picture is the 220 block. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By tacklenut: Previous post commented on the long internal extractors possibly failing. I found one from Matrix Precision for the 226 but not 220. I pulled the firing pin blocks off both. They seem close. I wish I had taken the out for a definitive comparison. The owner of Matrix thought the bend in the extractor maybe different. I wonder if it’s an adjustment/tension fitment issue rather than a dimensional difference. Has anyone installed a short reset trigger on the older W German 220’s? I saw some comments about it interfering with the DA operation. Top picture is the 220 block. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/230503/IMG_3765_jpeg-3816743.JPG I have had Sig install SRTs on a number of W. German and German P220s and P226s. Some have required new grips to make it work. |
"Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky!" -Alec Guinness as MAJ (acting Colonel) Jock Sinclair, D.S.O., M.M. "Tunes of Glory"
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Originally Posted By Bklyn_Irish: I have had Sig install SRTs on a number of W. German and German P220s and P226s. Some have required new grips to make it work. Originally Posted By Bklyn_Irish: Originally Posted By tacklenut: Previous post commented on the long internal extractors possibly failing. I found one from Matrix Precision for the 226 but not 220. I pulled the firing pin blocks off both. They seem close. I wish I had taken the out for a definitive comparison. The owner of Matrix thought the bend in the extractor maybe different. I wonder if it’s an adjustment/tension fitment issue rather than a dimensional difference. Has anyone installed a short reset trigger on the older W German 220’s? I saw some comments about it interfering with the DA operation. Top picture is the 220 block. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/230503/IMG_3765_jpeg-3816743.JPG I have had Sig install SRTs on a number of W. German and German P220s and P226s. Some have required new grips to make it work. How did you like it? Did it effect the either the single action or double action function? |