SIG 320 Pulled by Houston PD (Page 2 of 2)
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I like shooting (I don't carry it) my 320, but I'm not a fanboy either. I'm on the fence if most of the malfunctions are caused by operator error, holster problems or faulty design and/or manufacturing. If the Texas DPS cans them will affect my thoughts on the matter. Has anyone heard any cases of the DPS guns self-firing? |
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Well, my former department went with the Sig 320 back in 2020 to replace our Sig 229s in .40. I was part of the team that tested the Sig 320, Glock 17 and the S&W M&P. “I” selected the Glock 17, but the majority of all the other firearms instructors sided with Sig 320 and it was selected in the end. The Sig 320 was my second choice, but the Glock 17 is simply a more reliable model with a solid track record from the mid/late 1980s. But, the modular advantage of the Sig 320 is a winner concept. Btw, my former department also adopted the Sig MPX and MCX to replace our Colt M4s and SMGs. Once we adopted the Sig-320, I ended up picking up an Sig 320 on department letterhead for a great price with six magazines. A few years later, I bought six more full size magazines AND another twelve Compact magazines since my state, Washington, banned all high capacity magazines in 2023… I was seriously considering buying the Compact model conversion kit around that time period, but starting in late 2023, I started to pay attention to all the negative NDs/ADs caused me to question the idea of conceal carrying a Sig 320. So, I have a basically worthless NIB Sig-320 with plenty of magazines that I will likely never carry conceal since “I” don’t trust it since their is conflicting information that Sig USA, IMHO, has failed to answer in a manner that gives me, a law enforcement officer of 26 years and 24 years as a LEO firearms instructor, the confidence and trust in this product. As a retired LEO, I have to conduct my yearly LEOSA qualifications at our state’s law enforcement training center, which has banned any and all Sig 320s on their ranges and even some of our indoor civilian ranges have banned the Sig 320 as well. Honestly, I feel that “I” got burned twice by “Sig USA,” first with their Sig 556 Classic rifle from the late 2000s since they will not even service them anymore and now with the Sig 320. Foul me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me. The point being is that “I,” for right or wrong, no longer trust “Sig USA” or any of the products they produce. Yes, I own still own two other Sig USA products, a Sig 365XL and a Sig MPX pistol, both bought before late 2023, but I’m no longer looking or will look at anything that Sig USA may offer in the future. WITHOUT any question, Sig Germany and Sig Switzerland produce some of the best firearms on the planet…. Their Sig 220/225/228/229/232 pistols and any Sig 55x rifle are hands down winners and have my complete trust and confidence. But, Sig USA, and after being burned twice, I do not see myself ever buy another product from them, outside of a U.S. made 226 or 229. Basically, I’m done with Sig USA UNTIL they make it right with the their Sig 320 pistols… This includes making it right with individuals, like me, who already has a Sig 320… Either by actually fixing the issue AND having the fixes verified by an outside entity to verify the fixes… I would even accept verification from Sig Germany and/or Sig Switzerland or offer a generous trade-in allowance for a Sig 220, Sig 226 or a Sig 229. Sadly, I see Sig USA just dropping their Sig 320 line and just walk away from it and saying “not my problem” while trying to sell us the next greatest firearm they come up with. |
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It's definitely interesting how not one single case has been able to prove that absolutely nothing touched the trigger when the gun went off. There is still no concrete proof of these claims (unless I'm missing something). Also worth noting that Army SF and DEVGRU haven't had any reported UDs either. And Big Army and the Marines for that matter too. Are those guys (many of whom shoot the piss out of their 320s, (especially Army SF and DEVGRU)) just incredibly lucky? The truth is that this is STILL all speculation - the flames of which are being fanned by social media influencers. The last time I checked, their primary concern was and is subscriber counts and views - not a totally practical and fair analysis of what has been going on, which again, to date STILL hasn't proven a single one of these claims. I'm not even saying it's impossible for a real actual mechanical problem to exist - anything is possible, but couldn't it be possible that a mechanical problem in fact doesn't exist? Its weird that entire departments are dropping the gun with literally no concrete evidence to prove its actually a mechanical problem with the gun. |
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Originally Posted By wayfaerer320: It's definitely interesting how not one single case has been able to prove that absolutely nothing touched the trigger when the gun went off. There is still no concrete proof of these claims (unless I'm missing something). Also worth noting that Army SF and DEVGRU haven't had any reported UDs either. And Big Army and the Marines for that matter too. Are those guys (many of whom shoot the piss out of their 320s, (especially Army SF and DEVGRU)) just incredibly lucky? The truth is that this is STILL all speculation - the flames of which are being fanned by social media influencers. The last time I checked, their primary concern was and is subscriber counts and views - not a totally practical and fair analysis of what has been going on, which again, to date STILL hasn't proven a single one of these claims. I'm not even saying it's impossible for a real actual mechanical problem to exist - anything is possible, but couldn't it be possible that a mechanical problem in fact doesn't exist? Its weird that entire departments are dropping the gun with literally no concrete evidence to prove its actually a mechanical problem with the gun. Let's start w/ yer ignorance of why the Marines are carrying on an empty chamber, shall we? |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Let's start w/ yer ignorance of why the Marines are carrying on an empty chamber, shall we?  You kill me…. Not why Marines carry that way…. But keep pushing your ignorant narrative . Cp |
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Originally Posted By Reddtv: I have noticed our local DPS Troopers are carrying the Sig 226. They were carrying the Sig 320. What is up with the change?. LOL. TXDPS sold off most of the .357 Sig 226s... a decade back. Snap & post a photo in this thread next time you see a TXDPS trooper currently carrying a 226.  I've asked every TXDPS Troopers I've encountered (and I see a goodly number traveling all over Texas) if TXDPS is having any "issues" with their 320s. To a Trooper, they have all said "no problems" (ADs) and they carry them with confidence. TXDPS is pretty top tier (compared to most agencies) when it comes to weapons training. HPD has some sharp operators, but in "the law of large numbers" also means statistics say has some very "dull donuts" too. 🍩 Bigger_Hammer  |
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Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: LOL. TXDPS sold off most of the .357 Sig 226s... a decade back. Snap & post a photo in this thread next time you see a TXDPS trooper currently carrying a 226. I've asked every TXDPS Troopers I've encountered (and I see a goodly number traveling all over Texas) if TXDPS is having any "issues" with their 320s. To a Trooper, they have all said "no problems" (ADs) and they carry them with confidence. TXDPS is pretty top tier (compared to most agencies) when it comes to weapons training. HPD has some sharp operators, but in "the law of large numbers" also means statistics say has some very "dull donuts" too. 🍩 Bigger_Hammer Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: Originally Posted By Reddtv: I have noticed our local DPS Troopers are carrying the Sig 226. They were carrying the Sig 320. What is up with the change?. LOL. TXDPS sold off most of the .357 Sig 226s... a decade back. Snap & post a photo in this thread next time you see a TXDPS trooper currently carrying a 226. I've asked every TXDPS Troopers I've encountered (and I see a goodly number traveling all over Texas) if TXDPS is having any "issues" with their 320s. To a Trooper, they have all said "no problems" (ADs) and they carry them with confidence. TXDPS is pretty top tier (compared to most agencies) when it comes to weapons training. HPD has some sharp operators, but in "the law of large numbers" also means statistics say has some very "dull donuts" too. 🍩 Bigger_Hammer Sadly, they are not so good at rescuing bleeding children who are being held hostage. 
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Originally Posted By bergunx: Well, my former department went with the Sig 320 back in 2020 to replace our Sig 229s in .40. I was part of the team that tested the Sig 320, Glock 17 and the S&W M&P. “I” selected the Glock 17, but the majority of all the other firearms instructors sided with Sig 320 and it was selected in the end. The Sig 320 was my second choice, but the Glock 17 is simply a more reliable model with a solid track record from the mid/late 1980s. But, the modular advantage of the Sig 320 is a winner concept. Btw, my former department also adopted the Sig MPX and MCX to replace our Colt M4s and SMGs. Once we adopted the Sig-320, I ended up picking up an Sig 320 on department letterhead for a great price with six magazines. A few years later, I bought six more full size magazines AND another twelve Compact magazines since my state, Washington, banned all high capacity magazines in 2023… I was seriously considering buying the Compact model conversion kit around that time period, but starting in late 2023, I started to pay attention to all the negative NDs/ADs caused me to question the idea of conceal carrying a Sig 320. So, I have a basically worthless NIB Sig-320 with plenty of magazines that I will likely never carry conceal since “I” don’t trust it since their is conflicting information that Sig USA, IMHO, has failed to answer in a manner that gives me, a law enforcement officer of 26 years and 24 years as a LEO firearms instructor, the confidence and trust in this product. As a retired LEO, I have to conduct my yearly LEOSA qualifications at our state’s law enforcement training center, which has banned any and all Sig 320s on their ranges and even some of our indoor civilian ranges have banned the Sig 320 as well. Honestly, I feel that “I” got burned twice by “Sig USA,” first with their Sig 556 Classic rifle from the late 2000s since they will not even service them anymore and now with the Sig 320. Foul me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me. The point being is that “I,” for right or wrong, no longer trust “Sig USA” or any of the products they produce. Yes, I own still own two other Sig USA products, a Sig 365XL and a Sig MPX pistol, both bought before late 2023, but I’m no longer looking or will look at anything that Sig USA may offer in the future. WITHOUT any question, Sig Germany and Sig Switzerland produce some of the best firearms on the planet…. Their Sig 220/225/228/229/232 pistols and any Sig 55x rifle are hands down winners and have my complete trust and confidence. But, Sig USA, and after being burned twice, I do not see myself ever buy another product from them, outside of a U.S. made 226 or 229. Basically, I’m done with Sig USA UNTIL they make it right with the their Sig 320 pistols… This includes making it right with individuals, like me, who already has a Sig 320… Either by actually fixing the issue AND having the fixes verified by an outside entity to verify the fixes… I would even accept verification from Sig Germany and/or Sig Switzerland or offer a generous trade-in allowance for a Sig 220, Sig 226 or a Sig 229. Sadly, I see Sig USA just dropping their Sig 320 line and just walk away from it and saying “not my problem” while trying to sell us the next greatest firearm they come up with. SIG has burned me a number of times. I was quick to the SIG556 trough and actually bought one of the very first on the market (literally serial number was under 100). That gun worked GREAT and was full of SIG SAN parts. I decided to save it and bought a pair of the later produced SIG556s. Absolutely terrible guns. Parts literally fell off of them while firing. Sold all three. Then the Classic model was released. Bought the full size, SWAT, patrol and patrol SWAT. 2 of the 4 worked 100%. Sold them. Next MCX ... well we all know the history of those. I carried a W. German P226 or P228 for a lot of years (1990s / early 2000s). Those guns I swear by. Anything made by SIG USA is a no-go for anything apart from a frustrating trip to the range. I have a P320 RXP XCompact on the Exchange if anyone wants to buy it or trade a Trijicon RCR or Glock 19 or anything made by HK .... |
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Originally Posted By Reddtv: I have noticed our local DPS Troopers are carrying the Sig 226. They were carrying the Sig 320. What is up with the change?. If in fact this is true, they are probably the last of the few who were grandfathered in after the transition. Which there are few road guys carrying the 229/226 anymore. Almost all personnel are carrying the P320. The only ones you may see and will see carrying anything outside the P320 are the rangers. They're usually carrying anything from Glock, colt, staccato, sig, to h&k. |
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Originally Posted By WoodHeat: Sig is a study in how not to handle a problem such as this. Their crisis management team and their legal team couldn't be more tone deaf, and their aggressive defiance will sink them. Even if the 320 is the safest pistol on earth, Sig's behavior has soured me on the company permanently. The problem is we live in America where anything you say can be used as a basis of a lawsuit against you. So it's never a good idea to admit to a fault unless you are absolutely sure and cannot deny it in any way. At the time, no one has proven what is causing the problem so every lawsuit won so far is based on the theory that it might potentially be unsafe without any sort of proof that it is. |
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Originally Posted By wayfaerer320: It's definitely interesting how not one single case has been able to prove that absolutely nothing touched the trigger when the gun went off. There is still no concrete proof of these claims (unless I'm missing something). Also worth noting that Army SF and DEVGRU haven't had any reported UDs either. And Big Army and the Marines for that matter too. Are those guys (many of whom shoot the piss out of their 320s, (especially Army SF and DEVGRU)) just incredibly lucky? The truth is that this is STILL all speculation - the flames of which are being fanned by social media influencers. The last time I checked, their primary concern was and is subscriber counts and views - not a totally practical and fair analysis of what has been going on, which again, to date STILL hasn't proven a single one of these claims. I'm not even saying it's impossible for a real actual mechanical problem to exist - anything is possible, but couldn't it be possible that a mechanical problem in fact doesn't exist? Its weird that entire departments are dropping the gun with literally no concrete evidence to prove its actually a mechanical problem with the gun. |