Posted: 8/16/2015 9:59:18 PM EDT
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Stopped in to the LGS about 2 years ago to look at the P250. Very interesting gun. Liked the ergos but the trigger was just too long for my liking. Moved on.
Stopped in to the LGS about 2 days ago to look at the P320 Compact. Expected to be wow'd. Why wouldn't I be? Same ergos but in a reportedly short and light trigger. Now I am not trying to besmirch the reputation of Sig or troll sig-lovers, but the trigger was not great. Very stagey with lots of stacking. Almost like a 3 stage trigger with each stage being heavier than the one before. I was really surprised after reading so many glowing reviews. Reviews that claim it rivals the PPQ. I have more than a dozen striker fired handguns and pretty much every one of them, from Glock to M&P to XD had (has) a considerably better trigger. I asked the clerk for a different gun. He produced a weird P320 with a compact frame but the full sized slide. Trigger was better, but not amazing. Not in the same league as the VP9, heck not in the same league as a stock Ruger SR9C. Still had a multi-stage feel with a heavy wall to break through. Left disappointed and went to a different gun shop and they also produced a P320 Compact. Trigger was smooth with a crisp break, still heavy but nothing like the other two P320's I dry fired. Still not the trigger I keep reading about but certainly one that could break in and smooth out more with time. Still like the ergos but was soured a bit on the gun. Now I am not sure about buying a P320. The inconsistency was enough to scare me off. I asked several gun buddies and some thought I was nuts claiming Sig had reached striker fired perfection and others who had a similar experience to mine. One guy said the P320 he fired was better than my well-used Apex equipped M&P. The naysayers claimed to try out a few different P320's at a local shooting match and left just as surprised and unimpressed as I did. Are these early production guns before the gun was ready? Maybe they rushed some out to market? Maybe I just imagined something so spectacular it just couldn't live up to my expectations. Thoughts? |
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I'm contemplating buying one as an edc. I'm going to factor in the cost of Bruce Gray doing this. http://grayguns.com/gunsmith-services/sig-sauer-pistols/p320-carry-action-package/ |
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I will admit the 320 triggers seems to vary in quality from example to example. My personal 320 carry had a very good trigger from the start, no creep and just a tad bit of grittiness. After about 300 rounds it has disappeared and the trigger is very good now. I also own a PPQ M1 and yes the trigger it lighter and was cleaner from the get go. Overall the I will still rate the PPQ trigger as the best out of the box striker trigger there is for overall accuracy due to it's lightness and clean break. I honestly prefer the 320 trigger to the PPQ trigger due to it being a tad heavier. I attribute that to my time with Glocks and being used to their trigger weights. It's just what the shooter is used to.
I know of another range instructor that is carrying a PPQ M2 and loves it. We run drills together quite frequently and we go back and forth on shooting more accurate and faster on any given day, all things being equal. I consider he and I an example of, it is more about the shooter than the platform. We both also carry and shoot glocks and the results are the same with them. He simply prefers the PPQ now and I am steadily moving towards the 320 as my preferred platform. No other reasons other than preference. For my intended roles, the 320 fits the bill better than the PPQ does. I now have two goto duty weapons, my Glocks, and my 320CA. My PPQ is relegated to range/fun time. I have no issues with the PPQ and it has been an outstanding weapon. I have a set of criteria that I use for duty/ carry weapons. The 320 just fits those critera better than the PPQ IMO. The 320 was designed to be a mas produced duty weapon to compete directly with Glock and M&P. I suspect at some point Sig will release a IDPA ready version of the 320, similar to the M&P pro series. That version of the 320 should be more up to what you might have been expecting out of it. I suspect that a 320 warmed over by Mr. Gray would also rival the PPQ as far as trigger feel. Overall the 320 series has really impressed me. So much so I am carrying mine as I type this. :) 
TXPO |
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I've never quite warmed up to striker fired handguns. It wasn't that I was anti-striker, it's just that I never found one that held all the qualities I wanted in one platform: Medium weight (yes, I shoot better with a gun that has a little heft to it), felt natural in-hand, quality trigger, and I can put together decent groups at 10 yards straight away.
Secondary, well, I want it to look good. Not an imperative but a nice to have. Tried a S&W Sigma. Yeah, we'll just pretend that didn't happen. Let's not even mention how absolutely craptastic it was. Tried a Glock 19 and 21, the grip angle didn't agree with my hands and I got nipped (slide bite) somewhere around the 3rd mag. Meh trigger. Tried the Ruger SR9. Not bad. Felt a little unrefined. You pay for what you get. It didn't do anything wrong but didn't offer anything special. I'd rather stay with the older P95. Tried the XD series. Good but never felt comfortable and the trigger left something to be desired. Tried the VP9. Well, this one came in a close second. No complaints, but the design didn't really stoke my emotions. Moved to the P320 and it was an instant connection. It fell to hand just like the 1911 but maybe a little thicker. The weight and balance were just how I wanted them. Muzzle flip in 9mm was lower than I expected for something with a rather high bore axis. Trigger was pleasantly smooth, the travel wasn't ridiculously long, and there was very little creep. No manual safety to fumble with either. Cock and rock it. You want to make it safe, you unload it. That's the way it should be. 
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| All I know if I have now dry fired a total of 6 different P320's, some new and some used. The triggers ranged from awful to pretty good and everything in between. Unfortunately the average leaned toward awful. I am looking to move away from my M&P because I want a completely stock gun (aka no Apex trigger) so I don't want to send it to a gunsmith, swap sears or springs, etc. I though the P320 was going to be it, but now I don't think so. Thanks for your responses. |
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Quoted:
All I know if I have now dry fired a total of 6 different P320's, some new and some used. The triggers ranged from awful to pretty good and everything in between. Unfortunately the average leaned toward awful. I am looking to move away from my M&P because I want a completely stock gun (aka no Apex trigger) so I don't want to send it to a gunsmith, swap sears or springs, etc. I though the P320 was going to be it, but now I don't think so. Thanks for your responses. I don't want to say that your expectation level is too high ... but your expectation level may be a bit too high. 
Unless you're willing to break the $1,000 threshold, it's unlikely you'll ever come across a true mass production run handgun with a 'glass break' trigger feel ... or even a consistence of feel across the entire run. Trigger components are sourced with an acceptable degree of variance in tolerance. This is done for expedience and costs. The one rare-ish exception may be the M9/92F; there is a surprising amount of hand finishing that goes into that line even though it's a mass production gun. Once you cross the $1G threshold, more attention is paid to narrowing variances, match fitting parts and hand tuning stuff. I know you said "No" to Apex, but their P320 flat enhanced trigger is only about $40, 10 minutes to install, and has been getting good reviews. If you think the P320 trigger is lacking, go find a Sigma and run about a mag through it. You'll never find fault in the P320 again.
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I had my P320 for about a month before I was able to get out and shoot it. In that month I must have dry-fired it 1000 times or more, and now the trigger is incredible (for a striker fired gun). I recently dropped in the Apex flat trigger because the curved trigger it came with has, in my opinion, way too much curve in it. It seems some of the effort is straight back (good) but some of the effort is applying force downward into the curved hook. It's hard to explain, but the curve is too steep in my opinion. No matter- the Apex trigger is fantastic and now my excellent trigger pull is even more excellenter.
Trying different P320s and noticing a difference in the trigger pull should be telling you something. The parts are mass produced and they leave the factory pretty much the same. I think you've been trying some that have been pulled more than others. I don't think there is a better striker fired pistol with a better trigger pull than the P320. |
I have three striker fired guns. Sig P320 in 40s&w, H&K VP9 and a Walther PPQ M2 5" 40s&w. I had the same thing at LGS's in Florida when trying out these three guns the triggers were not great on the 9mm ones only the VP9 was good of the three guns. I found the 40 ones to be very good.
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| My agency issues the M&P, which I really like, but trigger consistency is all over the place on the stock guns. We have received guns with excellent triggers and we have received a couple guns (exception not the rule) with awful triggers. Most are in the middle range with the newest production guns being the best. Even the best don't touch my Apex equipped M&P. I have dry fired several PPQ's and everyone of them had a very smooth light trigger. Never found a bad one but I didn't like the ergos as well as the M&P (or the price). No Walther discount for LEO's that I am aware of but Sig P320's run about $430. So when I read review after review of how the P320 trigger was smoother than a Tropicana bikini girls bare butt I just got myself overly excited (as I would if I actually got to touch a Tropicana bikini girls bare butt). Good reminder that internet reviews aren't that much different than reviews in gun magazines; not always based in truth but always based on perception and/or pay check. Of course some fan boys have probably claimed it's glory before they ever even touched one. Maybe I need to just start jumping from store to store with a pocket full of cash until I find that awesome triggered P320mm compact 9mm. |
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I'm with you on the variation in trigger feel between different guns. I have had my hands on a lot of 320 in several calibers, sizes, and ones that have been new and ones that have been shot. When new, the trigger have a wide range as you said from good to, ok, to bad. One thing I can tell you is, that the trigger was better on the guns with the higher round counts.
My 320 when new had a little grit, but was otherwise pretty good. Now after 600 plus rounds or so, the take up is smooth as glass, and it breaks super clean. Yes the 320 is a mass produced parts build gun. That typically creates a product that has a wide tolerance range. The parts will eventually fit themselves and wear in creating a very nice trigger. An Apexed equipped M&P has a fine setup, and is hard to match without going into custom gun territory. The best way to try out a 320 is find a range with one as a rental. Then like you said check out some stores and find one with the best trigger. Ultimately the trigger will turn out very nice, but with a good one out of the box, the wait won't be as long. The fire controls are actually quite simple in the 320 and I suspect it won't be long before Apex comes up with a trigger setup for the 320. It caught enough of their interest to crank out the flat trigger. TXPO |