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AR15.COM
2/6/2010 9:33:50 AM EDT
I just  got some installed and walked out to my range.... at 5 yards problem was my groups were all  three inches low.   I checked the number on the package and they sent me the right ones..   but also noticed something on their websight, they say at greater distances 25 yards,  to aim lower??    LOL!! Hows that going to work...
2/6/2010 10:26:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Are you using the proper sight picture? Many people use express sights like partridge sights and that causes low shots. Just rest the white dot in the shallow V, don't line them up straight across the top like standard sights.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQVCeJ103BQ
2/6/2010 10:31:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Yeap, I have the right sight picture, just hitting 3 inches low...
2/6/2010 10:32:48 AM EDT
[#3]





Quoted:



but also noticed something on their websight, they say at greater distances 25 yards,  to aim lower??    LOL!! Hows that going to work...







The reason it
impacts high at that range is because the bullet is fired at an upward
angle relative to the line of sight.













Quote:





















The effect of gravity on a projectile in flight is often referred to as bullet drop. It is important to understand the effect of gravity when zeroing the sighting components of a gun. To plan for bullet drop and compensate properly, one must understand parabolic shaped trajectories.



Due to the parabolic shape of the projectile path, the
line of sight or horizontal sighting plane will cross the projectiles
trajectory at two points called the near zero and far zero incase the
projectile starts its trajectory (slightly) inclined upward in relation
to the sighting device horizontal plane, causing part of the bullet
path to appear to rise above the horizontal sighting plane. The
distance at which the firearm is zeroed, and the vertical distance
between the sighting device axis and barrel bore axis, determine the
apparent severity of the "rise" in both the X and Y axes (how far above
the horizontal sighting plane the rise goes, and over what distance it
lasts).




Many firearms ballistics tables and graphs show a rise
in trajectory at distances shorter than the one (far zero) used for
sight-in. This apparent "rise" of the projectile in the first part of
its trajectory is relative only to the sighting plane, and is not
actually a rise. The laws of physics dictate that the projectile will
begin to be pulled down by gravity as soon as it leaves the support of
the barrel bore at the muzzle, and can never rise above the axis of the
bore. The apparent "rise" is caused by the separation of the plane of
the sighting device axis and that of the bore axis and the fact that
the projectile rarely leaves the bore perfectly horizontally. If a
firearm is zeroed at 100 meters, then the far horizontal sighting plane
and the projectile path must "cross" at that distance; the sighting
line must be adjusted to intersect with the projectile path at 100
meters. In the case of a bore axis that is maintained in a perfectly
horizontal position, the sighting device must be inclined downward to
achieve this intersection. The axial separation distance between the
line of sight and the bore axis and trajectory of the projectile
dictate the amount of angular declination required to achieve the
required intersection.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics





















 
 
2/6/2010 10:33:54 AM EDT
[#4]



Quoted:


Yeap, I have the right sight picture, just hitting 3 inches low...


You shooting a .45?



 
2/6/2010 10:41:16 AM EDT
[#5]
G19......

I have six targets that look pretty much like this...



2/6/2010 10:46:37 AM EDT
[#6]
That is a common result of people not getting a proper express sight picture. You want just the bottom of the white dot to touch the rear sight.



 
2/6/2010 10:53:35 AM EDT
[#7]
You are correct in the manner of sight picture, I'm doing it correctly.

2/6/2010 10:58:42 AM EDT
[#8]
I went through this with the XS sights. Assuming it's not shooter error, they do make different height rear sights to correct for this. Give them a call.
2/6/2010 11:00:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Brian, thank you.....just happens they are somewhat local and I just sent the a email inquiring about a taller rear sight..
2/6/2010 11:48:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Please keep us posted on how this turns out.  I have been contemplating getting a set of the XS standard dots, but don't feel like wasting anymore money on cool tactical goodies that disappoint.  
2/6/2010 11:59:40 AM EDT
[#11]



Quoted:


You are correct in the manner of sight picture, I'm doing it correctly.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Tuffbroadhead/sightpicture.jpg


Are you holding point of aim or six'o clock?



 
2/6/2010 12:02:50 PM EDT
[#12]



Quoted:


I have been contemplating getting a set of the XS standard dots, but don't feel like wasting anymore money on cool tactical goodies that disappoint.  


You won't be disappointed. Express sights have been around for well over a hundred years and they work great. You just have to get over the learning curve. Go BigDot BTW.




 
2/6/2010 2:04:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Ok, sorry about the slow response, I had to run to town for more ammo....

I now have two G19's, One with "xs standard  dots" and one with " xs Big dots"....

Weapon with the  Big dots is a ten ring every shot at 5 yards...

Weapon with Standard xs dots to achieve ten ring hits I have to elevate the front post all the way to the base where it meets with the slide..... beginning to think the packaging was right but the contents are for wrong weapon..
2/6/2010 7:53:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:

Quoted:
I have been contemplating getting a set of the XS standard dots, but don't feel like wasting anymore money on cool tactical goodies that disappoint.  

You won't be disappointed. Express sights have been around for well over a hundred years and they work great. You just have to get over the learning curve. Go BigDot BTW.
 


How is your accuracy at longer distances, such as 10-25 yards?  I thought I would try the standard dots for slightly more precise long range accuracy.  Please advise over.  
2/6/2010 8:15:29 PM EDT
[#15]







Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



I have been contemplating getting a set of the XS standard dots, but don't feel like wasting anymore money on cool tactical goodies that disappoint.  






You won't be disappointed. Express sights have been around for well over a hundred years and they work great. You just have to get over the learning curve. Go BigDot BTW.






 

How is your accuracy at longer distances, such as 10-25 yards?  I thought I would try the standard dots for slightly more precise long range accuracy.  Please advise over.  


As good as any other combat sight once you learn to use them. Even XS recommends against the standard dot.



FAQ #1






                 


Big Dot or Standard Dot?






                 


With so many selections how do you pick the one that is
                   best for you?  First off let’s go over the basics.  






                 


Where?






                 


 These situations for the most part occur at 21 feet
                   or less, usually a lot less.  Department of Justice
                   annual reports state that 90% of police shootings happen
                   at this range or less.  A study of shootings over 100
                   years in New York City have more than 90% of shootings at
                   10 feet or less.  The DOJ study includes figures from
                   sheriffs departments and highway troopers and Border Patrol.  Encounters
                   by these agencies can occur at longer ranges (more than 21
                   feet but less than 25 yards) so they will skew the average
                   range figure a bit.  






                 


When?






                 


 In the “when” category, about the only
                   common denominator was that light conditions were less than
                   adequate.  In our own research we found there was a
                   gap in the visibility of most sights on handguns.  Plain
                   black sights rely on having sufficient ambient light to see
                   them against a contrasting background.  Such target
                   sights are black and meant to be aligned against the white
                   of the target paper and held in reference below the round
                   bull of the target.  This is fine until the background
                   becomes the blue, red, plaid, etc of clothing and then the
                   sight blends in to the point where it might as well be invisible.  Contrasting
                   inserts help but are generally too small to be readily seen.  Night
                   sights were a big help in low light to no light situations.  But
                   since the tritium vials are a weak source of light it does
                   not take much ambient light overpower them leaving you unable
                   to adequately see them in the half light to low light realm.  And
                   because they are installed in the same place where a contrasting
                   color insert might be, they remove the ambient light reflector
                   that you might have used in this half to low light range.






                 


What happens that is so different?  






                 


 If people were only attacked by static pieces of
                   cardboard, then we wouldn’t build our sights the way
                   we have.  The same can be said if all shooting situations
                   gave you a walk through before hand and if everybody involved
                   was clearly marked as to whether they were SHOOT or NO-SHOOT
                   people.  But they don’t so you’ll have to
                   have to make a whole bunch of decisions, in the moment and
                   on the fly.  What you’ll need is information.  Information
                   like body language, intent in the eyes, movement of the hands,
                   and/or are there threats from other directions? This means
                   that your eyes will be bouncing all over everywhere except
                   on your sights.  Only if a point is reached where deadly
                   force is required, will you need sights and the time it takes
                   for your eye to shift back to find them and get them on target
                   is critical.  The stress reactions by your own body
                   are working against you quickly finding your sights.  Proof
                   that you can easily miss a man-sized object at 3 feet is
                   found by looking at police qualifying scores versus percentage
                   of rounds that hit in actual gunfights.  Most LE Agencies
                   require that officers qualifying score is at least 70% of
                   the possible total, while the average number of rounds that
                   actually impact is less than 15% of those fired.  If
                   this isn’t a clear indication that what works well
                   on a target range under target conditions is next to useless
                   under tactical conditions I don’t know what is.






                 


What we offer.






                 


Shallow “V” express rear notch.  This
                   eliminates the billboard found on each side of a standard
                   notch rear sight.  You have better access to the front
                   sight and it is impossible to hide the front sight behind
                   the rear sight.  The “V” is not a bull’s-eye
                   sight and you will not get the same tiny groups that you
                   can get with such sights.  You will get plenty of tactical
                   accuracy and not take forever to find and align the sights
                   in doing so.  The vertical bar in our sight is readily
                   distinguished from the front dot.  This eliminates any
                   confusion as to which dot is the front sight.  Available
                   in the 24/7Express series our most popular sights can be
                   had with this bar as a tritium element.






                 


Big white dot with tritium (Big Dot Tritium/BDT).  The
                   bigger sight is easier for your eye to pick up.  Easier
                   to see when your focus is out beyond the front sight locked
                   on the possible threat.  The large white area is huge
                   reflector of ambient light and will be seen way on down into
                   the very low light range.  At that point the tritium
                   vial in the center of the dot comes into play and begins
                   to take over the sight reference duties giving you a positive
                   front sight reference on down into the no light spectrum.






                 


A better Point of Aim (POA) / Point of Impact (POI)
                     system.
 When your eye is making that shift
                     in focus it will lock onto the brightest thing first.  The
                     brightest part of the dot is the center.  Placing
                     that over the desired point of impact is a natural reaction.  From
                     15 yards on in our POA/POI is center of the dot.  As
                     the range increases and you have more time for a refined
                     sight picture we take advantage of your pistols ballistics.  Bullets
                     start out below line of sight and the barrel angle is such
                     that they rise to line of sight.  By having the under
                     15 yards POA/POI at the center of our dot then as the range
                     increases to 25 yards the bullets flight will take it to
                     near the top edge of the front sight.  Now you have
                     the best of both worlds.  A stress sight picture that
                     is quick and easy to find and index on the target and a
                     more precise POA/POI when you need it at longer ranges.






                 


The Standard Dot Tritium.  We have
                   it around because no matter how logical and sound the Big
                   Dot system is you just can’t convince everyone as to
                   its advantages or that you really can shoot accurately with
                   it.  The Standard Dot Tritium gives them a better front
                   sight so they will have some improvement.  We sell quite
                   a few of them to the gamers who want a better front sight
                   but shoot in a world where the targets are generally static
                   and clearly marked as to which ones are hostile and which
                   ones are not.






http://www.xssights.com/faqs.html
 

 
2/7/2010 11:15:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Thanks for the info.  I think I will get a set of the Big dots and try them out.  My eyesight isn't what it used to be, and I'm hoping that the XS sights will help my target acquisition/sight picture.
2/7/2010 11:31:15 AM EDT
[#17]
You're welcome!